Why Apple vs PC?

Discussion in 'iMac' started by hack3rcon, Jan 13, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. hack3rcon macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    #1
    Hello.
    Why Apple vs PC when all Apple hardware are PC hardware and just OS is different?

    Thank you.
     
  2. Jessica Lares macrumors G3

    Jessica Lares

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Location:
    Near Dallas, Texas, USA
    #2
    Because the general public still sees the PC as a Windows based machine and they all come from different manufacturers.
     
  3. hack3rcon thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    #3
    They must come from IBM? :) IBM never product any PC and just focusing in supercomputers.
    I mean is that "Steve Jobs said that he will make a personal computer that destroy IBM" but...Is he success? All Apple components are PC components.
     
  4. Pakaku macrumors 68000

    Pakaku

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    #4
    Because Apple was always a hardware designer just as much as they've always been a software developer, and typically you are paying a premium for both sides.

    Dell, IBM, HP, Sony, all those companies building PCs don't really develop the OS or software, and Microsoft had never gotten into the hardware industry until really recently with the Surface line. (Ironically some would argue the Surface has made Microsoft even better at being an Apple-like company than Apple themselves)
     
  5. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #5
    Its the experience and the fact that because Apple chooses the hardware components and writes the OS to integrate with that hardware we have a superior experience. Many people here also prefer OS X over windows. Finally its the quality of the product. You can get a laptop for 300 dollars, it will not last as long as the MacBook which is priced much higher because of the quality.

    At the end of the day, there's no single reason, but I mentioned a couple. People choose Macs for their reasons and one size doesn't fit all.

    For me its the design, quality and user experience of OS X.
     
  6. Jessica Lares macrumors G3

    Jessica Lares

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Location:
    Near Dallas, Texas, USA
    #6
    IBM's personal computer business lost out to the clones and not Apple. I saw them throughout the whole of the 90's, so no, wouldn't say that Apple even succeeded in doing any damage to them themselves.

    Macs weren't built any differently to any other branded machine component wise, they were just using a different architecture.
     
  7. h9826790 macrumors 604

    h9826790

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2014
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    #7
    I agree with you, it's just the OS. Otherwise, in general, Mac are over priced, form over function (especially cooling), non upgradable PC.

    I am still not 100% sure if running macOS is legal on Hackintosh. May be that's base on location. But in any case, if a user prefer macOS, running it on a Mac should be the most trouble-free way to do it.
     
  8. theluggage macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    #8
    Mainly, because language is messy and illogical: words mean whatever people understand them to mean (and different people understand them to mean different things). "PC" is ambiguous. It also stands for "Personal Computer" and a Mac is most definitely one of those - as in an iPad unless you want to start making up new definitions for "computer". Deal with it. I'd always use "Windows PC" if it really mattered.

    (a) In the 1980s, after the launch of the IBM PC, "PC" became an abbreviation for "IBM PC or compatible running PC-DOS" and, as time passed, IBM became irrelevant and "PC-DOS" became "MS-DOS or Windows". True, IBM co-opted the term from general use, but back in 1980, before the IBM PC, the abbreviation PC wasn't actually particularly common. I've looked at some old magazines to remind me and its either "personal computer" in full, "micro", "microcomputer" or just "computer". I'm sure "PC" was used occasionally, but it certainly wasn't ubiquitous and popular use of "PC" has always tended to mean the IBM PC and its successors.

    (b) Until 2005, Macs DID have a completely different architecture to PCs, using PPC processors instead of DOS/Windows' Intel x86 processors. Er, yes, PPC stands for "Power PC" and was developed by IBM, but Macs used PPCs and PCs didn't. I told you it was messy and illogical!

    (c) Also, around that time, Apple were running their famous "I'm a Mac/I'm A PC" ad campaign - so it would be a courageous decision for Apple to decide to re-brand Macs as PCs (Except in the UK where they re-cast the ads using an established British comedy duo in which the "Mac" character usually played the jerk and PC was seen as the sympathetic guy - plus us Brits have a tendency to root for the loser and much prefer ads that refrain from knocking the competition and just entertain us while casually dropping in a product shot at the end).

    (d) Although modern Macs are substantially the same hardware as PCs there are enough subtle firmware differences - not to mention Apple's deliberate hardware detection - to ensure that you can't just plug a regular MacOS install stick into a PC or a Windows install stick into a Mac and have it work. The latter has occasionally been possible - you can just stick a Windows XP DVD into a MacPro 1.1, for instance - but not consistently. There's no officially sanctioned way of installing MacOS on non-Mac hardware - although Apple don't seem to be losing sleep over the occasional personal-use Hackintosh they'll be down like a ton of bricks on anybody who tries to commercialise it.

    (e) Also, by now, there's virtually no resemblance between a modern Windows machine, with its AMD64 processors (don't remind Intel that their instruction set is called AMD64!), PCIe bus and UEFI firmware and the IBM PC of old...

    That's a kinda nonsense statement. The "different architecture" meant a completely different CPU (first Motorola 68000, then PPC) and different bus (Nubus on the Macs that had slots vs. ISA, PCI/AGP, PCIe on PC) - a tendency to use SCSI rather than IDE for hard drives etc. (I think, at one stage, even the floppy drives were different, with constant-linear-velocity recording.) So, no, although some of the components were doubtless the same, many were completely different.

    You could draw a distinction between Mac vs. PC (different processor architecture until 2005) and Mac vs. Amiga or Atari ST (all had 68000-series processors at the time and, indeed, there were Mac emulators for Atari although they relied on somehow obtaining a copy of the Macintosh ROM).
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2017 ---
    True - although Apple did carve out a valuable niche in desktop publishing (which Apple virtually invented) and pro graphics.

    I always wonder what would have happened if, instead of letting Apple use all their good ideas, Xerox had teamed up with Apple to produce the "Xerox PC" and leveraged their photocopying business to push it to the corporate world in competition with IBM. Apple's creativity + Xerox PARC's tech skills + Xerox's army of nicely suited & booted salespeople...
     
  9. hack3rcon, Jan 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017

    hack3rcon thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    #9
    I'm not a Fan of Windows but Microsoft helped Apple a lot :
    https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2017 ---
    Apple has just %4 of market. It is not because of Apple is expensive it is because of software and...shortage. OK, Apple performance is better than Windows OS but I guess it is not because of Apple it is because of Unix OS. I'm a GNU/Linux user and I bet Linux performance is better than OS X.
    It is true that I'm a GNU/Linux fan but I must select Windows OS in some conditions. It these conditions software and hardware compatibility are more important than performance. OK, You selected Apple because of performance but you kill many features like software ranges and...because of just a performance option :(
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2017 ---
    Excellent man, +1 for you.
    It is true that Steve job was a genius but it is not true that a genius never make mistake. Steve Jobs though he can make Apple without PC components and he failed.
    Consider two Architects. An architect from IBM and another from Apple and Ask them to make a building for you. After some months you are coming to see their arts. Both of them make different houses but with same components like brick, Wood and...
    Steve Jobs never understood it.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2017 ---
    Thank you a lot for your great history and time.
    You said me PPC and as you know this kind of CPU made by IBM and others. I see that Apple used IBM (Enemy) CPU and it was the big fail too :)
    Unfortunately people thinking that GUI made by Apple or Microsoft too but they never know anything about Xerox.
    You mentioned Apple Ads and I can remember most of them against PC. A modern and young man was Apple and an old and classic style man was PC. I also remember Ads from Apple about Viruses against PC but people never ask themselves why Windows have a lot of viruses. It is because of Windows OS usage and as you know %96 of computers use Windows OS then it must have a lot of viruses.
    People thinking that Apple or GNU/Linux not have any Virus :D. They never asked them why! IT is because of usage and nothing else. You can see Apple malwares here:
    https://www.intego.com/mac-security.../2016/02/10-years-mac-malware-infographic.png
    If a product not have any virus then why have Antivirus :D. People must ask it from themselves.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2017 ---
    He did a lot of wrongs:
    http://stevejobsdailyquote.com/tag/quotes-about-ibm/
     
  10. kinster, Jan 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017

    kinster macrumors 6502a

    kinster

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    #10
    Oh dear not this again. You will also find that a lot of people know about the history of "PCs" and the GUI at Xerox PARC.
     
  11. theluggage macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    #11
    Not really - the PPC chips from IBM and Motorola served Apple very well for 10 years or so. If there was an enemy then it was Intel/Microsoft who had long since stabbed IBM in the back.

    Apple switched when IBM/Motorola failed to come up with a PPC "G5" processor suitable for laptops - because designing chips is expensive and Apple would have been their only guaranteed customer.

    At the same time, Intel (who were competing with AMD for every non-Apple PC sold) had a major foul-up with their Pentium-4 processors which had become too complicated, too dependent on ever-increasing clock speeds and, consequently, guzzled too much power. They dumped the P4, went back to the older Pentium Pro design and developed it into the "Core" which was lower-power, simpler and was great for multi-core chips.

    Simply put: Apple switched to Intel the day that Intel started making a chip that was better than the PPC.

    That is one factor, but isn't the only one. . Windows has (or had) a bunch of other issues that made it more prone to malware. Its probably getting a lot better now as it finally shakes off the MS-DOS legacy. Partly, Apple were able to make a much cleaner and quicker transition from their old Classic OS to the more modern, Unix-based OS X while Windows has always been hamstrung by the need to retain compatibility with decades-old software that corporate customers still depend on.

    For one thing, Windows 95/98/ME still owed a lot to old DOS and didn't have the user/permissions control of modern operating systems. Windows NT/2000/XP did - potentially, but was encumbered with legacy software from the DOS days that didn't understand it and had to run permanently as the "admin" superuser. OS X, even for an admin user, will prompt for a password before doing anything that needs admin privilege - doing the same under Windows XP proved pretty unbearable (and you end up training the user to enter their password without thinking).

    MS also did some fairly silly things (for the sake of user-friendliness) with their mail and web software that made it too easy to launch executables from mail messages or webpages.

    Its quite true that Apple & Apple users shouldn't get complacent, though.
     
  12. macmee Suspended

    macmee

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Location:
    Canada
    #12
    Because still to this day, Windows is crap and lots of people want an alternative
     
  13. hack3rcon thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    #13
    Linux is a good alternative not OS X and both of Linux and OS X have a lot of limitations :(
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2017 ---
    Your problem is you thinking that Apple is a friend for IBM :). When you want download a program and if it is multi platform then you see two separated options not PC/Apple.
    Intel is PC manufacturer and doing PC standards. I'm a GNU/Linux fan and dislike Windows OS but Windows OS is the best OS for desktop users.
    Your problem is that in your idea write malware for OS X is hard but it is not.
     
  14. kinster macrumors 6502a

    kinster

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    #14
    Seems to me you are putting words in people's mouths so you can put forward a case why OS X is "rubbish" and Windows is the best for a GUI based OS. To me each OS is good for different kinds of jobs. Just because you are using a Linux shell doesn't make you clever.
     
  15. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Location:
    5045 feet above sea level
    #15
    What is hard to understand here? And why are you referencing things 30 years ago?
     
  16. macmee Suspended

    macmee

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Location:
    Canada
    #16
    Nah, I'm of the opinion that Windows is pure garbage and is a discount OS.

    I've owned every single Surface Pro device. I love them and they're far more useful than an iPad. However, stable they are not. I cannot tell you how many problems I've had with windows:

    0. Battery life on any windows device S U C K S ! My SP4 has less than half the battery of my Macbook and has about the same as my powerbook from 2004.............

    1. In December last year, Microsoft pushed an update for the SP3 which bricked like 10% of all devices, and then they went on christmas break so they were all broken for over a month. You might remember some news coverage of this at the time

    2. Often time indexed searching breaks in W10 for no apparent reason

    3. Windows update often never finds updates

    4. Sometimes after updating you get stuck in a boot loop, login loop or you login and only see a black screen with a cursor (and if you google this issue this is a very common problem rofl.....)

    5. I've disabled Windows Hello and yet sometimes when I boot, it randomly activates........

    6. Many metro apps just suck and never work, such as the windows store and metro one note

    7. Several of my surfaces have suffered from, about once a month, randomly waking from sleep in my backpack, running at 100% CPU until the battery is dead (also if you google it this is a common problem..............)

    8. My SP4 currently panics when plugged into an external monitor after the last windows update I did, so I cannot output any digital signal out, only analog (VGA)

    9. Windows has THE. WORST. HiDPI scaling. You have to fricken REBOOT the damned computer if you want to switch an application launched in low DPI to now scale for HiDPI

    10. Windows downloads updates and just leaves crap all over the C drive in folders such as Windows.old, Windows10Upgrade, etc. Doesn't bother to clean up after itself

    11. Sometimes my touch screen just decides its going to stop working until I reboot......

    And then there's the general reasons why Windows simply just sucks balls and always will:

    1. Applications require installers which just vomit crap all over your computer

    2. There is no convenient way to back everything up and restore it onto a fresh install like Time Machine

    3. Font rendering looks like ass

    4. It's not UNIX based so virtually no software development stuff works properly without VMs or modifications

    5. its currently in this awkward as hell win32 vs metro ui phase

    6. FOR SOME GOD DAMN REASON HALF THE SOFTWARE IS STILL 32BIT (and therefore you have 2 program files folders)

    -----

    BUT I WILL SAY THIS:

    I can go buy the cheapest biggest piece of crap Windows tablet out there on amazon.ca, and guess what? Unless LG manufactures the screen, it probably wont be plagued with hideous and disastrous image retention issues... HERES LOOKING AT YOU $4,000 IMAC
     
  17. roadkill401 macrumors 6502

    roadkill401

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    #17
    I always cringe when those words are used. Apple back in the day when the mac was in the rectangular box with the small screen built in (classic mac) they were the far most prone to viruses and malware of anything else on the planet. This is something that Apple people choose to simply forget or were not even born yet to experience. The original Mac OS was an active application and even the act of putting in a floppy disk caused objects inside the OS to run. This allowed for viruses to be embedded into the boot sector of the floppy disk and actively run and infect the host computer without any other action needed to be run. When I was at collage, we were only allowed to purchase floppies from the school and had to be left inside the lab as the amount of time/resources to combat the mac lab virus infections dictated that. At the company i was co-op working for at the time, (a big teacher pension fund) the problem was a daily occurrence to clean/fix the macs from that day/weeks virus outbreak.
     
  18. roadkill401 macrumors 6502

    roadkill401

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    #18
    Nah, I'm of the opinion that macOS Sierra is pure garbage and is a discount OS.



    0. Battery life on any 2016 Macbook PRO device S U C K S ! Apple advertises that is should work for 10 hours, but in real life that number can be anything from 3h to 8. Ask the people at Consumer Reports............

    1. It took an uproar from the Apple community and hundreds of customers suffering from terrible battery life for Apple to finally act. But their solution was to simply remove the time remaining meter from the OS so you really have now to hope and prey to god that you have enough juice to get a job done if you are not sitting beside a power outlet.

    2. When you run bootcamp on your Macbook PRO, you stand a good chance to blow your speakers.

    3. Apple update often forces you to upgrade software that you are not even using just to get it to shut up with the reminders.

    4. And heaven forbid you have a non official Apple device plugged into your USB, you can get stuck in the black screen where the boot can't quite figure out what to boot. (Oh crap I left in my USB joysick, no wonder its not booting)

    5. I tried to disable iTunes as I don't use it to listen to music, but every day it seems to launch itself for no real reason.

    6. Lets not forget that Apple lays a heavy hand to what it thinks is acceptable software for the apple store.

    7. And here on MacRumors, you hear constantly about people with the iMac that just won't go to sleep. I have had it happen to me and I eventually just had to re-format the whole iMac just to get it working right again.

    8. And Apple just decided to stop selling external monitors. That says it all!

    9. And that lower tool bar on the screen. Don't get me talking about how ugly that has got. I wanted an OSX not IOS looking computer. But no. They had to F! up the look of style

    10. And yes, you should be able to remove an App from your Mac with just deleting the app from the application folder on your Mac. But that doesn't clean up the libraries and other junk that can be left around. Don't think that Apple is better than Windows.

    11. Apple doesn't have a touch screen. How behind in the technology department they are. But if you try and use the IOS Ipad, iPod, iPhone to do text, unless you have a super skinny sharp as a knife because cursor control on those devices are impossible.

    And then there's the general reasons why Apple simply just sucks balls and always will:

    1. Most of the good apps require you to turn bypass the security of MacOS as they are written by 3rd parties and so are not in the app store.

    2. Apple support standard solution to anything being wrong. Reformat the Mac and reload the OS. Is it that fragile that it takes 7-8 attempts to get a good install of the OS?

    3. Apple can even get facetime to work as it messes up the user photo if two or more people have the same phone number. Think parents.

    4. Apple stops supporting old hardware pretty fast.. how many have an old Macbook or Mac Pro that can't work with the current OS.

    5. Apple just wants to stop making macOS and would prefer just to develop for IOS. Where is the mac engineering department?

    6. FOR SOME GOD DAMN REASON HALF THE GOOD SOFTWARE IS TRASHED and replaced by substandard apps. Think Aperture, Final Cut Pro, ...


    This is a tongue in cheek poke at the list that was posted in this thread. Its purpose is just to point out that Apple is not perfect by any means and a list of faults that stand for Microsoft and its Windows product, you can equally put a list of issues for Apple and its macOS.
     
  19. varian55zx macrumors 6502a

    varian55zx

    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #19
    There's no reason to buy Mac unless you think macOS is worth the extra $$. We're getting ripped to hell on hardware, don't act like it isn't true.
     
  20. hack3rcon thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    #20
    As I said, You may disagree with me or don't like it as myself but Windows OS is the best OS for clients :(
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2017 ---
    I guess you thinking that I'm a Windows OS Fan :)
    I have some experiences with Windows OS and just let me to answer some of your questions:
    First of all why you never ask Microsoft Forum and I bet they have good answers to your problems.
    You said:
    3. Windows update often never finds updates ==> Please check update service or firewall rules.
    8. My SP4 currently panics when plugged into an external monitor after the last windows update I did, so I cannot output any digital signal out, only analog (VGA) ==> Why you think Apple never crash? If I tell you I just plug an External WD HDD with 3TB capacity to iMac and it show me a Kernel Panic then can you believe me?
    http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com...Thunderbolt-1-2-Update-Amid-Boot-Issues-2.jpg
    10. Windows downloads updates and just leaves crap all over the C drive in folders such as Windows.old, Windows10Upgrade, etc. Doesn't bother to clean up after itself ==> Use third party software like "CCleaner" or "System Mechanic" :). I guess windows offer you it by default. Right click on your Drive and select Disk Cleanup. Why in your idea it is a serious problem:D
    2. There is no convenient way to back everything up and restore it onto a fresh install like Time Machine ==> I guess restore point can help you:D or third party like "Norton Goback" or "RollBack RX" :D. When I was a student and my system was Windows 98 SE then windows offer this feature via "Norton GoBack". How about apple those time!!!!
    3. Font rendering looks like ass ==> Don't tell me it work in OS X very good. I just copied some similar fonts in OS X and I had font duplication and I must tell you that it killed me to solve the problem. I use third party like "RightFont" and "FontDoctor" and reboot iMac in safe mode for solve the problem.
    4. It's not UNIX based so virtually no software development stuff works properly without VMs or modifications ==> Windows bought Ubuntu :( and like to launch it in Windows 10 via containers. Please read more about containers like "Vagrant" and via it software development is easy:
    https://www.vagrantup.com/downloads.html
    Please Docker too:
    https://docs.docker.com/docker-for-windows/

    At the end, I must say you that you are brainwashed by Apple, You use PC with Unix OS then switch to Linux :D
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2017 ---
    All platforms have viruses. Don't speaking about malware ;)
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2017 ---
    God Bless you man.
    As you said, Apple is not perfect and in my idea it just PC with Unix.
    I answered to some of questions about Windows OS problems. Unfortunately, Apple brainwashed people and people thinking that Apple is a new product but when then open their iMac or MacBook then they will see PC components. Apple motherboard is the only hardware that designed by Apple engineers but they reverse engineered PC motherboards and...
    About removing Apps you right and I have the same problem in GNU/Linux but some GNU/Linux application provide some "make log" and you can remove it by hand more easy or just use "make uninstall".
    About upgrade I'm %100 Agree with you. I had an iMac 19 inch and I couldn't install new OS on it even if I upgraded my hardware, But in PC it is so easy :D. I liked to use new software on my Apple but these software need new OS X and...
    Apple failed from 2003.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2017 ---
    Just use a PC with GNU/Linux :)
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2017 ---
    I bet Microsoft and Apple give money to Adobe company for don't product Photoshop, InDesign, illustrator and... for Linux.
     
  21. kinster macrumors 6502a

    kinster

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    #21
    You are so negative. I use Windows 10 on my gaming PC at home and it is pretty good. It's made great progress since I first started using Windows 3.1. If gaming I would use a Windows desktop. If I were to do server and/or development work I would use Linux or Mac. But then again some people are so one-sided.

    Typical millennial. Like a lot of people already do, so don't need to tell them to.
     
  22. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #22
    Indeed, its a premium priced computer and you're paying for the experience, and tight integration of hardware and software.
     
  23. hack3rcon thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    #23
    I'm not negative, I just say you the truth. Mac for Server!!!! Don't kidding me. I guess you read "Using Mac OS X Lion Server: Managing Mac Services at Home and Office" by Charles Edge ;)
    --- Post Merged, Jan 15, 2017 ---
    I guess you don't know anything about hardware assembly. When you buying your motherboard then it has a manual that all hardware that are match with your motherboard are listed there :D
    For example, https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-RAMPAGE-V-EDITION-10/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
  24. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #24
    I actually do, because I sold and repaired computers for years ;)
     
  25. hack3rcon thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    #25
    If you do then why you ask and said Apple make genuine PC?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page