Why Apple wanted records sealed

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Original poster
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
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Quebec, Canada
Another Steve Jobs deception is revealed as Apple admits to doing market research. So much for "if you ask people what they want, they'll tell you a faster horse" :

http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/how-apple-conducts-market-research-and-keeps-ios-source-code-locked-down

On Monday, Apple's Greg Joswiak - the company's VP of Product Marketing - submitted a declaration to the Court explaining why documents relating to Apple's market research and strategy should be sealed.

Yes, gasp!, Apple does engage market research. Quite a bit of it actually.

Every month, Apple surveys iPhone buyers and Joswiak explains what Apple is able to glean from these surveys.
Yep, that is why Apple wanted those documents sealed, so you wouldn't find out the breadth of market research they actually do. User input does change Apple, it's not just some big coincidence all these years that the most often out-spoken complaints have gotten addressed (multi-tasking in iOS, Mission Control "fixes", etc..).

Let's face it, Steve was always good at making you believe in some kind of dream where Apple was apart from others. The reality is Apple is just another vendor, and under Steve were tons of people making it happen, using the same techniques other industry players used all these years. Apple isn't going to change without Steve, it'll have successes and failures like always.

However, now the corporate veil is getting pierced somehow. Of course this trial is one of Apple's biggest in decades and it was initiated under Steve, so we can't say it was Steve's doing all these years that kept these things secret. It would have come out even if he was still at the helm.
 

ajvizzgamer101

macrumors 65816
Mar 3, 2008
1,007
26
United States
I kinda figured. It is virtually impossible to run a company in which you don't get feedback from the general public And I don't see how this would "ruin their image." They still have the best design/engineer team in the industry that make the best products but when something in product isn't quite right I know they will listen to their consumers. Like the antenna issue, every company from Samsung to HTC would have ignored everyone... Apple said okay here is a free bumper for iPhone 4 and then they fixed the problem in with patches and in later in the Verizon Phone changed the antennas design.
 

smoledman

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2011
1,912
309
Well Apple is *different* by virtue of how simple and intuitive their designs are compared to the competition and look at their massive FAT profits.
 

nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
5,504
314
Middle Earth
Apple is very data oriented.

Whenever I buy something at an Apple store and leave my real email they prompt me for feedback which I most often decline.
 

MacDawg

macrumors Core
Mar 20, 2004
19,835
4,279
"Between the Hedges"
Yes, this is a vast conspiracy and we have been lied to for decades now
We should all burn our Apple products, that will teach them a lesson

:rolleyes:
 

decafjava

macrumors 68040
Feb 7, 2011
3,331
2,834
Geneva
Yes, this is a vast conspiracy and we have been lied to for decades now
We should all burn our Apple products, that will teach them a lesson

:rolleyes:
Naw just realising they do stuff everyone else does certainly won't make me burn my iphone-well that plus it would give off nasty nasty fumes. :p
 

entatlrg

macrumors 68040
Mar 2, 2009
3,376
3
Waterloo & Georgian Bay, Canada
Another Steve Jobs deception is revealed as Apple admits to doing market research. So much for "if you ask people what they want, they'll tell you a faster horse" :

http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/how-apple-conducts-market-research-and-keeps-ios-source-code-locked-down

Yep, that is why Apple wanted those documents sealed, so you wouldn't find out the breadth of market research they actually do. User input does change Apple, it's not just some big coincidence all these years that the most often out-spoken complaints have gotten addressed (multi-tasking in iOS, Mission Control "fixes", etc..).

Let's face it, Steve was always good at making you believe in some kind of dream where Apple was apart from others. The reality is Apple is just another vendor, and under Steve were tons of people making it happen, using the same techniques other industry players used all these years. Apple isn't going to change without Steve, it'll have successes and failures like always.

However, now the corporate veil is getting pierced somehow. Of course this trial is one of Apple's biggest in decades and it was initiated under Steve, so we can't say it was Steve's doing all these years that kept these things secret. It would have come out even if he was still at the helm.
Nice spin there or maybe you don't know much about design or business. But whats your point anyway? To label the deceased Steve Jobs a deception artist? :rolleyes:

Of course user input does change Apple and of course Apple listens to its customers, takes serious what they like and don't like, and tries to develop products that meet those needs. To suggest otherwise or that Apple denies that is rediculous. Apple wouldn't have feedback@apple email addresses for every product and service they offer if we were to believe what you claim.

Apple is unique because they go far beyond traditional market research and they put a lot of weight into forward thinking past what customers think they want or realize is even technically attainable. Call it brilliance, gut feeling, intuition or whatever, Steve Jobs had the knack and emphasized and looked for those qualities in people to help re-build Apple. Steve wasn't lying or deceiving anyone. This forward thinking and not being afraid to take risk worked out pretty well for Apple. Simple 'market research' wouldn't of fueled many of Apple's amazing products over the years.

So while Apple is no doubt taking cue's from all their internal market research, they don't hire or rely on consultants like most companies. They've been a little different and didn't bet the farm on it like other companies. Instead they weren't afraid to think far beyond that. Steve Jobs tried his damnedest to think beyond what customers wishes and desires were. That should be obvious to anyone with the products Apple delivered.

Sorry to rain on your Apple/Steve Jobs rant but I believe what you're suggesting is wrong, there is no big lie, deception or conspiricy theory here.

Apple didn't want Samsung to find out because it's none of their freaking business. Period.

"We do no market research. We don’t hire consultants. The only consultants I’ve ever hired in my 10 years is one firm to analyze Gateway’s retail strategy so I would not make some of the same mistakes they made [when launching Apple's retail stores]. But we never hire consultants, per se. We just want to make great products."
 
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turtle777

macrumors 6502a
Apr 30, 2004
681
15
Another Steve Jobs deception is revealed as Apple admits to doing market research. So much for "if you ask people what they want, they'll tell you a faster horse".
I think you don't understand the difference between people's opinion and real market research.

Market research tells you much more than you would get if you asked people what they wanted.
Good market research will revel preferences that people are sometimes not aware off, because these preferences are in their subconscious.

Really, there is no conspiracy.

I still think Steve is generally right: if you had asked people what they wanted in a "smart" phone before the iPhone came out, you would have gotten all kinds of stupid things like retractable keyboards.

Not asking people's opinion and real market research are not mutually exclusive.

-t
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Original poster
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
I never thought there was a conspiracy. Steve sold you an image. "We're innovators, we know better". It was never true and everyone with a shred of independant thought could figure it out. I never bought the line that Apple didn't need competition or customer feedback to innovate or make better products, I always knew they listened to customers as much as everyone else.

And Steve didn't need to be deceased to get labeled a deception artists. The man was the king of deception. He praised what he had and put down what he didn't and as always done it like that.
 

roadbloc

macrumors G3
Aug 24, 2009
8,785
211
UK
No surprise here. Did anyone actually really believe that Apple didn't do any market research via consumers?
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Original poster
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
Who ever claimed anything else? Seems like you're attacking a straw man there.
uh ?

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0803/gallery.jobsqna.fortune/2.html

"So you can't go out and ask people, you know, what the next big [thing.] There's a great quote by Henry Ford, right? He said, 'If I'd have asked my customers what they wanted, they would have told me "A faster horse." ' "
-- Steve Jobs.

Been picked up by the fan base, look at this post from yesterday, with 6 upvotes, straight from an iPad Mini discussion :

This is not apples style. They don't listen to the consumer, they are normally the onces telling us what we want.

Plus if they do release a 7in tablet, it's like saying, " Hey yeah, you know what we where wrong, you were right" Apple doesn't do that.
So yes, I do think Greg Joswiak just showed that Steve's RDF was always true. He made you believe in some kind of image that in the end was just that : him "selling" the Apple brand to you.

Attacking a strawman, only if you live with your head in the sand. Really, Steve has always done this. Say one thing, turn around and do another. Is it any surprise this comes out ?
 

entatlrg

macrumors 68040
Mar 2, 2009
3,376
3
Waterloo & Georgian Bay, Canada
uh ?

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0803/gallery.jobsqna.fortune/2.html



-- Steve Jobs.

Been picked up by the fan base, look at this post from yesterday, with 6 upvotes, straight from an iPad Mini discussion :



So yes, I do think Greg Joswiak just showed that Steve's RDF was always true. He made you believe in some kind of image that in the end was just that : him "selling" the Apple brand to you.

Attacking a strawman, only if you live with your head in the sand. Really, Steve has always done this. Say one thing, turn around and do another. Is it any surprise this comes out ?
You sure go out of your way to gun for Steve Jobs. Your point is rediculous and invalidated.
 
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KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Original poster
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
You sure go out of your way to gun for Steve Jobs.
No, I don't, I'm commenting on a news item that was posted. I didn't "go out of my way", Slashdot posted it and its a site I often read. Just thought it was interesting that Apple themselves ended up debunking the myth that they never consulted consumers or did market research.

It was also a question in the news section as to why Apple wanted the documents sealed, what they wanted to remain "hidden". This is basically it.
 

smoledman

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2011
1,912
309
We should be praising Jobs to the high heavens. If it weren't for his vision of putting Mac inside a cellphone, we'd still be on the LG Prada with 10 stock apps.