Why are IT ppl I know so snobby

[marbles]

Some folks are just up there own ass and don't like being proved wrong (*edit( ie: folks in reciept of IT pro's help)


not all bad though check this show from the UK's channel4> http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-it-crowd


edit* I know a few IT folks and they're ok , never had any trouble, mostly it's the other way round and people a 'off' with IT folks if they don't make the 'magic ' happen

 

[notjustjay]

They all have this unwillingness to ask IT ppl around them for help. Yet, they Google for guides and solutions all day long. For me, I just ask, I feel no shame in not knowing something. Whenever IT stuff comes up, they always say it's easy-this easy-that when they've not even gotten real experience.

I think there would be a lot less frustration if people would be willing to READ and THINK instead of treating their actions mindlessly. If you can't figure out how to do something, LOOK AROUND. I can't tell you how many times I have been asked to help someone figure out how to do X in some application that I may have NEVER seen before, but I figure it out because I look in the File and Edit menus and lo and behold, there's a "Do X" command.

Or the other day when someone showed me their Entourage address book and asked "How do I make a group of addresses so I can email them all at once?" I tactfully pointed out that perhaps they should try clicking the big "Add Group" button on the toolbar.

And I'm not just talking IT. It astounds me how many people combine a sense of self-entitlement and an ignorance of their surroundings and then get upset when things aren't going their way and they can't figure out why.

I guess the bottom line is that I am working with computers, and I am considered "good at computers", because I find them easy to understand. As humans we have a tendency to assume that everyone else thinks the same way we do, so I get frustrated to see other people not "getting it" the same way that I do.

 

[63dot]

IT = magic to normal people. Feel free to use your magical powers to anyone except other IT people.

I still treat people I help with respect. If it's an IT issue I don't know, I tell them. If they have a computer that has had it, I tell them to get a new one as opposed to trying to clean their clock and fixing it.

If a PC needs a new motherboard, processor, RAM, OS, etc and all that is good is their hard drive, I don't get all the parts and rebuild the machine at a cost of three times a new machine. That's just plain wrong. But some IT people know they can get away with such gouging, so they do it, and the customer still thinks they are magic people. Bad IT work will catch up with you.

If I am tutoring somebody, like a Vice President of a Fortune 500, I don't tell them to get a fu***** "etch a sketch" when they misplace a word file, but I do know a techie that did that for years before they got rid of him. He knew he was old and thus it would not look good to fire someone like that. People wanted to knock his block off but he knew that his age protected him...kind of like the dirty old man I used to know who pinched women's backsides but nobody dared to even push the man, because one fall and it would be all over. Plus we were a multi-billion dollar home improvement company with deep pockets. That old guy had our number and terrorized any female employee!

Anyway, moral of the story, watch out for IT people who know that they can do almost anything they want and get away with it. It usually leads to bad behavior and bad work habits/actions. What keeps me honest is that I know there are two countries on the other side of the earth, each with over a billion people, who have plenty of left over IT people, who are much smarter than I will ever be willing to work for far, far less coming over here in droves.

 

[ToddW]

I see why IT people are a pain in the butt. I wouldn't want to be in that situation either. helping all the folks who don't know anything about computers. personally i'm a little fortunate, i know a butt load about computers, networks, and junk like that. Being an engineer really helps in the regard, so much that I have my own local machine admin rights and when i need network stuff done i tell them what i need and it's done.

I had an upfront conversation with our IT department, when I ask for something I need it done right away, and that the only reason i asked them to do it, is that they have the god like access on the network that i don't have. that is really it. my biggest problem is that i don't think IT guys care about other peoples productivity. they don't understand that in order for me to be productive i need vpn access from home and would like to use my own computer but their stupid policy won't allow anything but a company assett to get on the network and management will not let me get a laptop.......

rant over

 

[Queso]

"IT people" do not exist as a single group. Most non-IT types only ever encounter the desktop support guys and think that's what "IT people" are.

Desktop support is the bottom of the IT heap, in the main it's what the beginners do. There's a lot of simple stuff they don't know at that stage. However, as soon as they do begin to get more knowledge they generally start moving into the back room and working with either the servers or the network. Those people you're far less likely to encounter, but are far more likely to either know the answer or just tell you they'll have to research it.

And then there's the developers, who dream in code statements and never poke their heads out of the IT department. You aren't going to understand a word they say anyway, so it's best they stay under lock and key

I had an upfront conversation with our IT department, when I ask for something I need it done right away, and that the only reason i asked them to do it, is that they have the god like access on the network that i don't have. that is really it. my biggest problem is that i don't think IT guys care about other peoples productivity. they don't understand that in order for me to be productive i need vpn access from home and would like to use my own computer but their stupid policy won't allow anything but a company assett to get on the network and management will not let me get a laptop.......

rant over

Todd, bear in mind that those working within your IT department are working to their own set of deadlines and have most likely promised people that certain tasks will be completed the same day that your call demanding immediate attention comes in. Expecting everyone to jump when you have an issue is unrealistic in the extreme.

 

[steve2112]

I had an upfront conversation with our IT department, when I ask for something I need it done right away, and that the only reason i asked them to do it, is that they have the god like access on the network that i don't have. that is really it. my biggest problem is that i don't think IT guys care about other peoples productivity. they don't understand that in order for me to be productive i need vpn access from home and would like to use my own computer but their stupid policy won't allow anything but a company assett to get on the network and management will not let me get a laptop.......

rant over

No, we do care about productivity, especially our own. At my job, for example, I am responsible for keeping our network up and running smoothly. Part of this is making sure little nasties like viruses and worms stay out of the network. And this is a case of the few ruining things for the many. You may know how to compute responsibly, but lots of people don't. The IT dept. doesn't know if those personal machines are patched, if they have up to date antivirus, etc. And when one of those machines gets connected to the network, bad things happen. This, of course, cuts down on the poor IT guy's productivity, since he is chasing down annoying little bugs instead of worrying about bigger issues.

Therefore, it is easier to make a blanket policy of no personal machines on the network than to make exceptions here and there. As for not getting a company issues laptop...well, you'll have to take that up with management. Believe me, many of us don't like management either.

 

[bruinsrme]

Many IT people I have had working relationships with seem to have one thing in common. When they get a call or there is an issue all they want to do is fix and not have to explain the fix to every customer.
Providing customer support seems to be a very small part of their objectives but take up a measurable amount of their time. From my understanding most IT I ahve associated with want to fix whatever it is and get back to the projects that they are accountable for.

I wanted to work IT for the longest time but they seem to be the first ones to get laid off

 

[MikhailT]

No, we do care about productivity, especially our own. At my job, for example, I am responsible for keeping our network up and running smoothly. Part of this is making sure little nasties like viruses and worms stay out of the network. And this is a case of the few ruining things for the many. You may know how to compute responsibly, but lots of people don't. The IT dept. doesn't know if those personal machines are patched, if they have up to date antivirus, etc. And when one of those machines gets connected to the network, bad things happen. This, of course, cuts down on the poor IT guy's productivity, since he is chasing down annoying little bugs instead of worrying about bigger issues.

Therefore, it is easier to make a blanket policy of no personal machines on the network than to make exceptions here and there. As for not getting a company issues laptop...well, you'll have to take that up with management. Believe me, many of us don't like management either.

The fact is it is actually a major security risk to allow a personal computer on the corporate network, even VPN access is a major security risk. Many companies banned personal machines and remote access with no exceptions. Do not blame IT departments for this, it is something that most upper management wants and the only way that policy can be enforced by IT department is to ban personal computers and even remote access. NOW try doing that at same time trying to maintain the productivity of your employees, almost damn impossible. Everybody wants to do some work at home, maybe during weekends catch up at work. We often do try to provide a method to do so that does not increase risks to our networks.

People who keeps blaming the IT departments are usually people who has no idea of the laws, polices and the amount of work that has to be done behind the scene which they never see.

Janitors should be respected more than they do now. I do not understand why people always refer to them as inferior. Those people want and need janitors, not the other way around.

 

[MikhailT]

Many IT people I have had working relationships with seem to have one thing in common. When they get a call or there is an issue all they want to do is fix and not have to explain the fix to every customer.
Providing customer support seems to be a very small part of their objectives but take up a measurable amount of their time. From my understanding most IT I ahve associated with want to fix whatever it is and get back to the projects that they are accountable for.

I wanted to work IT for the longest time but they seem to be the first ones to get laid off

In two interviews for two jobs that I got for, customer support was never suppose to be part of my department nor my job. Guess what? 80/20, 80% of my time was dealing with customer support and 20% was dealing with the actual job that I am responsible for.

I resigned from my last job right BEFORE the goddamn economy collapsed. Reasons? I was working 80 hours a week for 5 months straight, doing the work of 10 people, only earning 10$ an hour, didn't get any help when i asked. So i left, and now it's coming back to bite me in the ass because I can't find a job.

 

[steve2112]

The fact is it is actually a major security risk to allow a personal computer on the corporate network, even VPN access is a major security risk. Many companies banned personal machines and remote access with no exceptions. Do not blame IT departments for this, it is something that most upper management wants and the only way that policy can be enforced by IT department is to ban personal computers and even remote access. NOW try doing that at same time trying to maintain the productivity of your employees, almost damn impossible. Everybody wants to do some work at home, maybe during weekends catch up at work. We often do try to provide a method to do so that does not increase risks to our networks.

People who keeps blaming the IT departments are usually people who has no idea of the laws, polices and the amount of work that has to be done behind the scene which they never see.

Janitors should be respected more than they do now. I do not understand why people always refer to them as inferior. Those people want and need janitors, not the other way around.

That's pretty much what I was saying. Before I took my current job, I worked at a computer consulting/repair shop. I was always amazed at how poorly people kept up their personal machines. Not keeping up antivirus software, downloading stuff without even looking at what it was, clicking on links without reading, etc. THAT is why we don't allow such things on the corporate network.

As far as laws and such, admins in the US will shudder at this one: Sarbanes-Oxley. Anyone who has dealt with that one will know exactly what I am talking about. If you want really annoying laws and regulations, try working for the government. I work for a major three letter department of the US government, and dealing with the red tape on top of other regulations and laws really drags on productivity.

And I agree 100% on janitors/maintenance people, as well as police, firefighters, garbage people, and several others. I've never figured out why people doing the roughest and dirtiest jobs seem to get paid the least and get the least respect. Meanwhile, people sitting on their rear ends in comfortable offices seems to get paid more. (Of course, since I fall into this category, I guess I shouldn't complain too much)

 

[MikhailT]

That's pretty much what I was saying. Before I took my current job, I worked at a computer consulting/repair shop. I was always amazed at how poorly people kept up their personal machines. Not keeping up antivirus software, downloading stuff without even looking at what it was, clicking on links without reading, etc. THAT is why we don't allow such things on the corporate network.

As far as laws and such, admins in the US will shudder at this one: Sarbanes-Oxley. Anyone who has dealt with that one will know exactly what I am talking about. If you want really annoying laws and regulations, try working for the government. I work for a major three letter department of the US government, and dealing with the red tape on top of other regulations and laws really drags on productivity.

And I agree 100% on janitors/maintenance people, as well as police, firefighters, garbage people, and several others. I've never figured out why people doing the roughest and dirtiest jobs seem to get paid the least and get the least respect. Meanwhile, people sitting on their rear ends in comfortable offices seems to get paid more. (Of course, since I fall into this category, I guess I shouldn't complain too much)

Eh, I meant to quote the other dude, not you. I hate this quoting system.
Yea, you can say the same thing for teachers, they deserve all the help they can get. All of us had a teacher that we looked up to and respected the most.

Anyway, yea, SOX, HIPPA. Goddamn I hate it, even having government as a client to your company would suck so bad.

 

[iJohnHenry]

Why are IT ppl I know so snobby

Because we know we are better than you, and we want you to know it too.

Back in the 70's, my era, we had some brilliant minds, close to insane mind you, but brilliant none the less.

I was not one of them.

 

[Queso]

No, we do care about productivity, especially our own. At my job, for example, I am responsible for keeping our network up and running smoothly. Part of this is making sure little nasties like viruses and worms stay out of the network. And this is a case of the few ruining things for the many. You may know how to compute responsibly, but lots of people don't. The IT dept. doesn't know if those personal machines are patched, if they have up to date antivirus, etc. And when one of those machines gets connected to the network, bad things happen. This, of course, cuts down on the poor IT guy's productivity, since he is chasing down annoying little bugs instead of worrying about bigger issues.

Therefore, it is easier to make a blanket policy of no personal machines on the network than to make exceptions here and there. As for not getting a company issues laptop...well, you'll have to take that up with management. Believe me, many of us don't like management either.

NAC with posture validation would solve all of that instantly. However, since NAC is always seen by management as something costly and unnecessary most companies don't yet have it installed. Why? Because they only see it as cutting down on the workload for IT, rather than doing that whilst also allowing engineers such as ToddW to increase their own productivity.

And from experience IT workload is never cut down in these situations, it just shifts from firefighting to all the other stuff that's been put off over the years due to not enough heads being employed.

 

[MikhailT]

NAC with posture validation would solve all of that instantly. However, since NAC is always seen by management as something costly and unnecessary most companies don't yet have it installed. Why? Because they only see it as cutting down on the workload for IT, rather than doing that whilst also allowing engineers such as ToddW to increase their own productivity.

And from experience IT workload is never cut down in these situations, it just shifts from firefighting to all the other stuff that's been put off over the years due to not enough heads being employed.

NAC is too immature and not as unified in my opinion to be deployed. I can see the value of having NAC and where it can be very helpful in the future, but as of right now, it doesn't solve all of the problems.

 

[Peace]

When I did IT stuff we ( the IT people ) would refer to the end-user as "protoplasm" hehe

I'm guessing it's an ego thing. Most IT people think they know a lot more than the average user. Which in most cases is true. But I've seen some pretty smart end users too.

 

[iJohnHenry]

The problem is in the balance of the development team, for new systems.

I have seen the User run away with the specs to the point that the whole thing was killed after 4 years of work.

 

[steve2112]

NAC with posture validation would solve all of that instantly. However, since NAC is always seen by management as something costly and unnecessary most companies don't yet have it installed. Why? Because they only see it as cutting down on the workload for IT, rather than doing that whilst also allowing engineers such as ToddW to increase their own productivity.

And from experience IT workload is never cut down in these situations, it just shifts from firefighting to all the other stuff that's been put off over the years due to not enough heads being employed.

See, this is part of all that government red tape I was referencing. My department hasn't officially approved any NAC product. We think it will be Cisco NAC, and we are uhh... testing it, but nothing has been officially approved yet.

 

[MikhailT]

The problem is in the balance of the development team, for new systems.

I have seen the User run away with the specs to the point that the whole thing was killed after 4 years of work.

Oh god, dont bring the developers into this. They are just as bad as the users.

Here's a moment in the life of me being the network admin dealing with the developers who use email as part of their products:

Skype IM: "Hey EMAIL IS DOWN"
me.... panic mode time. goes to check three email servers, pinging, remote access logging in, DNS double checking across three different countries... etc
Skye IM, 10 SECONDS LATER: "Oh never mind, it's working fine"

me.......cursing the god.

 

[Queso]

NAC is too immature and not as unified in my opinion to be deployed. I can see the value of having NAC and where it can be very helpful in the future, but as of right now, it doesn't solve all of the problems.

The second generation Cisco product works extremely well, but I agree that up until very recently there have been just too many implementations to choose from with no clear front runners.

 

[jzuena]

I see why IT people are a pain in the butt. I wouldn't want to be in that situation either. helping all the folks who don't know anything about computers. personally i'm a little fortunate, i know a butt load about computers, networks, and junk like that. Being an engineer really helps in the regard, so much that I have my own local machine admin rights and when i need network stuff done i tell them what i need and it's done.

I had an upfront conversation with our IT department, when I ask for something I need it done right away, and that the only reason i asked them to do it, is that they have the god like access on the network that i don't have. that is really it. my biggest problem is that i don't think IT guys care about other peoples productivity. they don't understand that in order for me to be productive i need vpn access from home and would like to use my own computer but their stupid policy won't allow anything but a company assett to get on the network and management will not let me get a laptop.......

rant over

IT policies and procedures reflect business policies and procediures, so if they say no non-company asset on the network, it is because senior management made a business policy that their policy has to align with. What you need to do is show your line manager why you need a laptop.

 

[decksnap]

And then me and the girlfriend went to a folk music concert.

And there he was, playing the guitar under the pseudonym Ace Axe Man! Really good as well. Kept that well hidden so that's that. They're not all bad. Some are almost human.

That's so awesomely awesome.

I think it's because in the grande scheme of things, a lot of these type of people have not come out on top in many avenues of their life, and this is the one thing they feel they have superiority over others with. So they (probably unknowingly) act like know-it-all d-bags. It's kind of sad.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I had an upfront conversation with our IT department, when I ask for something I need it done right away, and that the only reason i asked them to do it, is that they have the god like access on the network that i don't have. that is really it. my biggest problem is that i don't think IT guys care about other peoples productivity. they don't understand that in order for me to be productive i need vpn access from home and would like to use my own computer but their stupid policy won't allow anything but a company assett to get on the network and management will not let me get a laptop.......

Are you the only person the IT department is responsible for or are there other users that might requested IT's help before you w/requests that might be more important than yours? Obviously IT can't do everything at once which means when multiple people come up and demand something to be done ASAP everyone is going to be mad except the first guy in the queue.

As Digital Skunk said sometimes there is a disconnect between IT and the practical needs of the users and the only way to address that is to make sure there is a pointed effort between IT and the various departments to have better communication. One of the roles I have at my current job is to work w/our production technology guys (kinda like IT but focused video post/production workflow and infrastructure) to come up w/solutions that are viable from a tech perspective as well as viable from a workflow perspective. And it's hard sometimes if what we need they can't provide or what they want to provide we don't need but it typically works out and in the end it's better than our two departments just b*tching behind each other's back.


Lethal

 

[acurafan]

i work in IT and we're very cool people.

unless you're the type that argues with me that mac's are god's gift to men...that's when your internet and email 'randomly' go offline. j/k

 

[c-Row]

Maybe someone could tell me why my original post from yesterday got deleted? I didn't see anything offensive in it, so maybe at least letting me know the reason would be fair.

 

[63dot]

"IT people" do not exist as a single group. Most non-IT types only ever encounter the desktop support guys and think that's what "IT people" are.

Desktop support is the bottom of the IT heap, in the main it's what the beginners do. There's a lot of simple stuff they don't know at that stage. However, as soon as they do begin to get more knowledge they generally start moving into the back room and working with either the servers or the network. Those people you're far less likely to encounter, but are far more likely to either know the answer or just tell you they'll have to research it.

And then there's the developers, who dream in code statements and never poke their heads out of the IT department. You aren't going to understand a word they say anyway, so it's best they stay under lock and key


Todd, bear in mind that those working within your IT department are working to their own set of deadlines and have most likely promised people that certain tasks will be completed the same day that your call demanding immediate attention comes in. Expecting everyone to jump when you have an issue is unrealistic in the extreme.

IT is so broad that many techies stay within their own department and usually don't move through desktop, server, and developer roles from what I have seen unless the IT department is one person and the company has no budget or time to worry about hiring anybody else.

But I have seen one or two people IT departments who have to do it all and it's amazing when I see someone who can fix issues on the floor, backroom, and with "code" in custom apps they are writing for their company. It takes both expertise and a broad knowledge to be an "everything" techie and know all these important aspects of a businesses' IT needs.