Why are people allowed to swear

[BrianKonarsMac]

People like BrianKonarsMac and myself are mostly annoyed with the fact that people continue to react so negatively to a handful of words-- It's not like your kid's head will blow up if he hears, or even says the words. And if everyone just got over it, the kid would be fine. Swearing is not a problem, society deciding that certain words are, for some bizarre antiquated reason, somehow evil is the problem. That's what gives words their power, and could take it away. (Brian, i'm making assumptions here, correct me if i'm wrong)

There's a certain word-- you all know what i'm talking about-- that's considered far worse than any other. Describing part of the female anatomy. Most women will smack you for saying it, if you're a guy-- it's kind of absurd that four letters can evoke that reaction. So i've made a project out of it, questioning people on why they react so incredibly strongly. So far, after about two years of exploring the subject, the only two reasons I have are: 1) The word sounds harsh (phoenetically), and 2) Everyone else gets really mad about it, so I should too. Great reasons, huh.

But this is a private website, and the owner/mods call the shots, so if they censor, I won't complain. Be disappointed, yes; complain no. Just like, they won't complain to me if I make a website with nothing *but* swearing.

It's a common error to believe that you have free speech on a private messageboard.

paul

oh my...a voice of reason...can it be!?!?

to whoever asked me to take a vocab test...id be happy to, considering i got a perfect score on my SAT's and ACT's in language...i think i'd do fine.

trying to shield people from any form of profanity (i.e. not wanting your children to learn sex ed, see violent movies, play video games, etc) will only lead them to rebel at the first opportunity and go on a spree of trying everything you have attempted to keep from them.

you need to educate people, not slap them on the wrist for certain behavior and say that is unacceptable.

if me swearing offends you, give an actual REASONING as to why the word **** gets your panties in a bunch, and perhaps i will respect your reason and forgoe swearing. ATM however, i feel like i'm surrounded by preschoolers who's only argument is "it's bad because my mommy said so, so you can't say it!"...at least Paul understands that it's just a word, you are the one giving it the negative conotation.

 

[Dros]

ATM however, i feel like i'm surrounded by preschoolers who's only argument is "it's bad because my mommy said so, so you can't say it!"...at least Paul understands that it's just a word, you are the one giving it the negative conotation.

It is interesting to see my argument that society has agreed on the meaning of words (is this debatable?) reduced to "my mommy says it is bad".

So, your argument is that words are given a meaning by the speaker and therefore no word should have the power to offend? No meaning is to be inferred from its use by society? I don't understand this. Perhaps this is knowledge only available to people with perfect test scores. Certainly it is possible to say swear words in a context that will not cause offense. For instance, we could be saying them in this conversation, a discussion about their meaning, and I don't think anyone would feel as if they were offended. But if used in its normal context, sure, I would feel the person was attempting to insult me. They may claim that they have given it some special, personal, meaning, but that would make me just feel like they were trying to insult me and that they were strange.

For instance, when you say, "I'm surrounded by preschoolers". Were you attempting to insult us by saying our intelligence is like a child? That is how I read it. You could claim that coming out of your mouth, "preschoolers" means something else entirely, like, "good looking", but I would find that meaning dubious.

Anyway, feel free to explain your theory of word meanings so even the simple minded here can understand.

 

[bousozoku]

People like BrianKonarsMac and myself are mostly annoyed with the fact that people continue to react so negatively to a handful of words-- It's not like your kid's head will blow up if he hears, or even says the words. And if everyone just got over it, the kid would be fine. Swearing is not a problem, society deciding that certain words are, for some bizarre antiquated reason, somehow evil is the problem. That's what gives words their power, and could take it away. (Brian, i'm making assumptions here, correct me if i'm wrong)

There's a certain word-- you all know what i'm talking about-- that's considered far worse than any other. Describing part of the female anatomy. Most women will smack you for saying it, if you're a guy-- it's kind of absurd that four letters can evoke that reaction. So i've made a project out of it, questioning people on why they react so incredibly strongly. So far, after about two years of exploring the subject, the only two reasons I have are: 1) The word sounds harsh (phoenetically), and 2) Everyone else gets really mad about it, so I should too. Great reasons, huh.

But this is a private website, and the owner/mods call the shots, so if they censor, I won't complain. Be disappointed, yes; complain no. Just like, they won't complain to me if I make a website with nothing *but* swearing.

It's a common error to believe that you have free speech on a private messageboard.

paul

While it has something to do with the words sometimes, it's more to do with the attitude. You always seem to have a respectful attitude, even if you don't agree. We can't say that about everyone else.

 

[whooleytoo]

It's interesting how that one particular 4 letter word for the female genitals seems to have no real male equivalent in severity - calling someone that is about the worst insult around and likely to result in a fight, whereas all the 'rude' terms for the male anatomy are only fairly insulting at worst, and are often used in a mild or joking manner.

Actually, I could think of a few that'd cause problems..

There's a certain word for the male genitals which is popular here in my part of the world, which even made it to the top of the music charts here as a song title - and it'd probably lead to a fight too. (And the funny thing is, I could use it here as the profanity filters would hardly be aware of all the 'localized' profanities).

 

[whooleytoo]

While it has something to do with the words sometimes, it's more to do with the attitude. You always seem to have a respectful attitude, even if you don't agree. We can't say that about everyone else.

That's a fair point; but it's easy to be disrespectful without using profanities, and possible to use swear words without being disrespectful.

 

[bousozoku]

That's a fair point; but it's easy to be disrespectful without using profanities, and possible to use swear words without being disrespectful.

True, but that's less likely in reality. The combination is just too compelling.

 

[whooleytoo]

True, but that's less likely in reality. The combination is just too compelling.

It varies, here in Ireland people use swear words a lot, out of habit. So much so, there isn't any bite or invective behind them; they're just throwaway words in a conversation. And without the anger or intended offense, these words lose their 'shock value'.

However I do understand your view, in other places/societies, swear words only tend to come out as conversations get heated; and so go hand in hand with insults and belligerence. Still though, I don't think it's the words themselves that are offensive, but the implied anger/hatred behind them.

My main problem with swear words is that they make it too easy for lazy people to express insults and anger

 

[kettle]

It varies, here in Ireland people use swear words a lot, out of habit. So much so, there isn't any bite or invective behind them; they're just throwaway words in a conversation. And without the anger or intended offense, these words lose their 'shock value'.

I think you're deluded.
Swearing is not normal. To generalise about Ireland is just nuts there is approximately the same proportion of polite and well spoken people in Ireland as there is in Scotland, England or Wales.

I think you should take a moment to think about what you implied and how you are portraying your country in a very bad light. Just because people do not react to bad language does not mean they approve or wouldn't rather have more polite language spoken or typed.

I think you are surrounded by very tolerant or ignorant people, which you choose will speak volumes on how you perceive your fellow human.

on the other hand, swearing in combination with situation and timing can be extremely funny and often unsurpassed in communicating those hard to reach places of human interaction.

 

[bousozoku]

It varies, here in Ireland people use swear words a lot, out of habit. So much so, there isn't any bite or invective behind them; they're just throwaway words in a conversation. And without the anger or intended offense, these words lose their 'shock value'.

However I do understand your view, in other places/societies, swear words only tend to come out as conversations get heated; and so go hand in hand with insults and belligerence. Still though, I don't think it's the words themselves that are offensive, but the implied anger/hatred behind them.

My main problem with swear words is that they make it too easy for lazy people to express insults and anger

Coming from Philadelphia, I found it tough to change my language--we used the f-word as emphasis there. It was rarely used to truly insult someone. I used to hear 10 year old kids say things on the street that I would hardly consider something to be said in public, even if I had seen it used medically.

It used to be a rite of passage to swear but then, we learned better, more accurate words to express our feelings and used discipline to control our outbursts. I'm not so naive that I'm constantly shocked by what people do, but the lack of intelligent use of language (and other things) does surprise me from time to time. It's much more satisfying to me to walk away from a disagreement having insulted someone in a way that they think that I've praised them.

 

[whooleytoo]

I think you're deluded.
Swearing is not normal. To generalise about Ireland is just nuts there is approximately the same proportion of polite and well spoken people in Ireland as there is in Scotland, England or Wales.

What is "normal"? Normal varies from society to society. Those countries are similar to Ireland culturally, so I'd actually include them.

I think you should take a moment to think about what you implied and how you are portraying your country in a very bad light. Just because people do not react to bad language does not mean they approve or wouldn't rather have more polite language spoken or typed.

I put enough thought into my message as I posted it, and stand by it now. I think it's fair to assume that people generally don't disapprove of swearing here, given the few people here who don't swear.

I think you are surrounded by very tolerant or ignorant people, which you choose will speak volumes on how you perceive your fellow human.

Or just people with different social norms. Swear words are common here even on radio and TV, no bleeps, no blurring of text when they're written. In the US, it's different. Different strokes for different folks.

on the other hand, swearing in combination with situation and timing can be extremely funny and often unsurpassed in communicating those hard to reach places of human interaction.

Speaking of funny, I liked you avatar! (Talk about the kettle calling the pot black! )

 

[Daveman Deluxe]

I think that there's a grave shortage of good swear words--the kind that are used infrequently enough that they get the point across like the click of a hammer being cocked on a loaded .38.

 

[bousozoku]

I think that there's a grave shortage of good swear words--the kind that are used infrequently enough that they get the point across like the click of a hammer being cocked on a loaded .38.

Learn the various words available in Hungarian, Serbian, and Romanian. That will cure your drought.

 

[yellow]

I've been reading a lot of Penny-Arcade and watching a lot of Dave Chappelle lately. I find it hard not to swear, or even use just generally socially unacceptable words.

 

[BrianKonarsMac]

It is interesting to see my argument that society has agreed on the meaning of words (is this debatable?) reduced to "my mommy says it is bad".

So, your argument is that words are given a meaning by the speaker and therefore no word should have the power to offend? No meaning is to be inferred from its use by society? I don't understand this. Perhaps this is knowledge only available to people with perfect test scores. Certainly it is possible to say swear words in a context that will not cause offense. For instance, we could be saying them in this conversation, a discussion about their meaning, and I don't think anyone would feel as if they were offended. But if used in its normal context, sure, I would feel the person was attempting to insult me. They may claim that they have given it some special, personal, meaning, but that would make me just feel like they were trying to insult me and that they were strange.

For instance, when you say, "I'm surrounded by preschoolers". Were you attempting to insult us by saying our intelligence is like a child? That is how I read it. You could claim that coming out of your mouth, "preschoolers" means something else entirely, like, "good looking", but I would find that meaning dubious.

Anyway, feel free to explain your theory of word meanings so even the simple minded here can understand.

i wasn't attempting to insult you, i was just stating my observations. the only argument anyone here has is "my parents told me that word was bad, so i think it's bad." no matter how you look at it, it's just a word, you are the one giving it the implication of an attempted insult. not long ago the word ****** was quite insulting, now blacks use it in reference to each other as casually as you or I say hi to someone, it's all in your interpretation of the word. when I use the word bitch, it would be insulting if any females were in hearing distance, but when I'm with a friend they understand that I'm just using it in reference, not actually attempting to insult someone.

wherever you were going with the preschoolers and meaning good looking...the analogy just doesn't connect. if you find it insulting to be referred to as a preschooler, you should try acting older than one. you still have yet to give me any reasoning as to why swear words are offensive to you, other than your mother telling you they are bad (or society in your case, which is even more frightening that you take lessons from our society).

 

[kettle]

(Talk about the kettle calling the pot black! )

yesh, kind of enjoy a good splash of petrol to get the barbi going.

The truth is you need both, just like electricity, you need the potential difference for a good spark. The only reason that swearing is such good fun is because of the potential objection.

Long live the crude, long live the prudes.

 

[Dros]

not long ago the word ****** was quite insulting, now blacks use it in reference to each other as casually as you or I say hi to someone, it's all in your interpretation of the word. when I use the word bitch, it would be insulting if any females were in hearing distance, but when I'm with a friend they understand that I'm just using it in reference, not actually attempting to insult someone.

So in the first instance, you are saying that certain words were at one time quite insulting, but now they are not. So words can be insulting, it seems you are saying (although you are also trying to say words can't be offensive). What has changed between then and now? Societies meaning of the word. People use it in different ways, but their individual intent is informed by societies usage of it. Your friends have agreed that words that are offensive to others aren't to you. That's fine. But as you agree, that doesn't mean those words should be used in a broader community where the words take on other meanings. It looks like by your examples that you agree with me.

if you find it insulting to be referred to as a preschooler, you should try acting older than one. you still have yet to give me any reasoning as to why swear words are offensive to you, other than your mother telling you they are bad (or society in your case, which is even more frightening that you take lessons from our society).

Here you misunderstand me. I do not find it insulting when you call me a pre-schooler, because your opinion of me is of no importance. I recognize, though, that you calling me a pre-schooler means you are trying to be insulting, i.e. equating my mindset with a baby.

"take lessons from society" just means I speak English using commonly agreed upon definitions of the words. Not too frightening. Your examples show you understand this as well. All I am saying is, MacRumors isn't the same as your group of friends that like to swear and mean nothing by it.

 

[crachoar]

Personally, I think we've all had enough of this "you can't say that because I'm: 1) offended because I'm sheltered or 2) too snobby to use 'common' language" nonsense shoved down our throats our entire lives that we should just get over it and allow it (since in the long run, it's all communication).

Let's sit back, look at the problem at hand, and realize that those afraid of such things like (certain) "words" are just silly people to begin with. Communication is communication. No point in telling somebody they can't communicate the way they prefer to because you don't like it. I mean, you certainly can, but you'll look like a ****ing idiot (omg, I'm such a commoner!).

I think the moral of the story is...

"Every time you swear, baby Jesus sheds a tear..."

Or maybe it was more along the lines of...

"If you don't like them, don't use them. But don't try to pretend like they don't exist and don't look down upon people for using them (or not using them). Censoring is silly and you are too. That doesn't mean that we hate you for being silly (we encourage you to be as silly as you desire). We just wish that you weren't forcing us to be silly as well."

Well, that was silly...

 

[BrianKonarsMac]

So in the first instance, you are saying that certain words were at one time quite insulting, but now they are not. So words can be insulting, it seems you are saying (although you are also trying to say words can't be offensive). What has changed between then and now? Societies meaning of the word. People use it in different ways, but their individual intent is informed by societies usage of it. Your friends have agreed that words that are offensive to others aren't to you. That's fine. But as you agree, that doesn't mean those words should be used in a broader community where the words take on other meanings. It looks like by your examples that you agree with me.




Here you misunderstand me. I do not find it insulting when you call me a pre-schooler, because your opinion of me is of no importance. I recognize, though, that you calling me a pre-schooler means you are trying to be insulting, i.e. equating my mindset with a baby.

"take lessons from society" just means I speak English using commonly agreed upon definitions of the words. Not too frightening. Your examples show you understand this as well. All I am saying is, MacRumors isn't the same as your group of friends that like to swear and mean nothing by it.

i do agree with you on pretty much everything you said. words have certain acceptable places, and in other areas they are not. i would never use the word ******, even if my girlfriend (who is black) happened to find it acceptable (which, thankfully, she does not) because it's just not acceptable, even for blacks to use it amongst themselves (not that that changes anything). the situation and the audience dictate that acceptability of a certain term or word, which i agree upon. however, i feel that many people tend to denote a word as offensive, without giving it proper consideration. WHY is it that the word ****, or ****, etc is offensive? Most people i know use them for emphasis or to express themselves (usually in an angry manner) which is why I cannot believe that these words are banned in private use, but it's private so I have to accept it (or leave).

I am NOT trying to argue for swearing on MacRumors, from the title of this thread I thought he was askin why are people allowed to SWEAR AT ALL. I agree that it's good to censor macrumors, but there is no foolproof way around it and people will always understand what the censored word is (just by the context). You can say that the **** really meant love, but we all know BS when we see it.

About me referring to the audience as preschoolers, it was not directed AT YOU, it was a reference to the debatable points i was recieving. NOBODY has given me ample reason to support not being allowed to swear in a private forum other than it is offensive...yet they have no REASON for it being offensive...it just is! I don't find IT JUST IS to be an acceptable reason for banning various aspects of language, but apparently others do. I meant no personal insult towards you (or anyone else), I don't know you in person so I can't exactly pass judgement on your character nor your intelligence.

e.g. banning cigarette smoke in private areas is acceptable because:
1. it's a health issue.
2. it smells foul.
3. it pollutes the air supply.
4. a fire hazard.
5. creates litter (cigarette butts) and debris (cigarette ash).

if someone could provide a few major point on why swearing should be banned (privately), i'd be interested to review them.

 

[Dros]

Well, I guess we do pretty much agree. Yeah, private forums.. sure, why not? I don't think you'll find anyone willing to argue against that.