Why Are There Bugs?

Discussion in 'iOS 11' started by Resist, Oct 13, 2017.

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  1. Resist macrumors 68030

    Jan 15, 2008
    So it's Apple's hardware and Apples software, they have a state of the art facility with brilliant minds. Yet with each new iOS release there are always bugs that have to be fixed with subsequent iOS releases. I don't understand this, does Apple just not know what they are doing? Or maybe they like using consumers as free beta testers. You would think that Apple would catch the bugs prior to release. I don't know, it's kind of annoying and I've gotten to the point now that I don't update my iPhone until Apple releases numerous iOS updates to sort out issues that shouldn't have been there in the first place.
  2. cowfish macrumors member

    Jul 23, 2009
    Seems to be a reoccurring issue as you point out. Just a guess, but seems like the programmers don’t “fear for their jobs” under the current CEO as they did with Steve jobs. There is a reason Steve was hard on people, stuff got done. It will still get done this way, but will just take a lot longer. Anyways, just my opinion.
  3. C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

    Oct 17, 2011

    Mainly ultimately because humans are involved and reality (of complex software development and in general) applies.
  4. cynics macrumors G4

    Jan 8, 2012
    Forced yearly update cycles on a product like this with such a large user base is virtually impossible to have bug free releases. Its impressive they do as well as they do.

    Even with Apples money they can only do so much. Throwing more people at it is good only up to a point. You can only divvy up the work so much before people are getting in each others way.

    You waiting for a couple updates is essentially doing what Apple should be doing, not releasing software until its 100% ready.
  5. Resist, Oct 13, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017

    Resist thread starter macrumors 68030

    Jan 15, 2008
    Well, actually there were just as many release bugs in iOS when Steve Jobs was in charge.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 13, 2017 ---
    But it doesn't matter how large the user base is, the software and hardware is the same. Apple used to pop off about how "it just works", well it really doesn't and because they don't properly test it prior to release. For crying out loud, they already do Beta releases so other people can do their job finding bugs.
  6. cynics macrumors G4

    Jan 8, 2012
    I should have expanded, large user base requiring a large feature set. With such a large user base bugs are found, millions of different people using their devices millions of different ways.

    For example I would notice bugs in HomeKit while someone else could go years and never even open the Home app.
  7. C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

    Oct 17, 2011
    Of course user base matters as far as combinations of what is used and how it's used.

    Also, the whole "it just works" part of it wasn't really about problem-free products (as those don't really exist, at least certainly not on a mass scale), but about usability by the common user.
  8. stulaw11 Suspended

    Jan 25, 2012
    Is this even serious? EVERY OS out there has bugs that are patched; Windows, Mac, iOS, Android. Im not sure why people think Apple is god and immune from bugs.

    It's ridiculous to expect something perfect; there is no such thing. And no throwing money or people or infinite time will make it perfect; even if releases were every 2 or 3 years.
  9. macfacts macrumors 68040


    Oct 7, 2012
    Because no main stream media reviews mentions the bugs in iOS.
  10. Reno Raines macrumors 65816

    Jul 19, 2015

    I wonder if perhaps a major iOS update every two years might be the way to go?
  11. stevemiller macrumors 68000

    Oct 27, 2008
    I get that bugs are inevitable, but the degree to which I've been encountering them has gotten absurd. iOS's clunkiness has gotten to the point where its noticeably worse than pretty much any other computing product I use, macOS, windows, anything. I'd go as far as saying for every interaction with the device, I find things work poorly / don't work more often than they do. I'm finding I now straight up avoid using my supposedly powerful iPad Pro because of how unpleasant the device has already become.

    I know people here will counter "your experience doesn't match the majority"... and I'm pretty dumbfounded how that is the case, as I've gone through several hardware updates, fresh installs, settings resets, not carrying over backups, and yet these issues seem to continue cropping up with increasing frequency, rather than feel like isolated one-offs.

    Further, in my albeit limited sample size of family and friends, many seem to be getting just as frustrated as me, and several have ditched iOS altogether. It really doesn't feel like I'm imagining this or being overly picky, but then there are people on here who claim they barely ever encounter issues.

    I'm trying not to demand unreasonable levels of perfection; I'd just like to be able to enjoy using these devices again. :(
  12. cynics macrumors G4

    Jan 8, 2012
    Certainly be less buggy but could you image how upset people would be? "Apple is falling so far behind, I'm going to Android" blah blah blah....
  13. SteveJobzniak, Oct 13, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017

    SteveJobzniak macrumors 6502


    Dec 24, 2015
    There are 2 annoying iOS 11 bugs for me, which are hard to understand why they've passed Q/A control:

    - Sometimes the keyboard literally crashes. No keys react anymore. You cannot close it either. The only way to get rid of it is to somehow tap outside of a text box to kill it... This bug happened in iOS 10 too... You can Google "ios 10 keyboard hangs" and find tons of results. It should never have gone beyond Q/A control! And it still remains in iOS 11. Big wtf!

    - If you disable "Show notifications on lock screen" under security, it KILLS MANY NOTIFICATIONS PERMANENTLY. They literally do not get delivered when you unlock the device either. The device just buzzes, and you unlock it, but see 0 new notifications. That's not how it's supposed to work! Yikes. I hate it. It's a really dumb bug... So I cannot secure my device. Anyone can read my notifications from my locked device screen. Sigh.

    I'm not even sure how to report these bugs since Apple is such a monolith with no public bug-tracker system. I guess registering as an iOS developer for $100/year to get 1:1 access to their engineers is the only way, but I'm not gonna do that...
  14. iSayBoourns Suspended


    Sep 15, 2017
    As many have already mentioned. Bug are unavoidable in something as complex as an OS. Especially when you’re dealing with millions of lines of code.

    And as others have noticed, there has been some sort of increase in bug (many of them pretty small though.)

    It’s something I’ve thought about before, and my best “theory” is that it’s attributed to iOS becoming less and less of a walled garden each and every year. More API’s are being created and older API’s being opened to developers that were previously closed. The more you open things, the more you can introduce bugs and certain configurations that would only reveal those bugs (big part of why the majority of the smaller bugs some get and many don’t)

    iOS of yore (4-6) would be considered very basic and significantly less complex and iOS today (11) and very much more closed off to 3rd party devs.

    Something like this is why I think more and more little things get noticed nowadays. I don’t think it’s Apple’s developers being or getting lazy, it’s just it’s a lot more complex on top of a lot more open than its ever been.
  15. MrGimper macrumors 603


    Sep 22, 2012
    Andover, UK
    I think it's a valid question.... considering that there is a closed set of target hardware, that Apple controls, bugs should be rare. This is also reinforced by the fact that apps are sandboxed and therefore shouldn't be able to crash or bug the OS.

    I guess it shows what a fantastic job Microsoft actually do considering the depth of hardware they need to support and how apps intertwine with the OS (yes, despite Ring 0 and Ring 3 etc)
  16. stulaw11 Suspended

    Jan 25, 2012
    Really? Forbes does extensive pieces on iOS11 as does Dailymail in the UK, USA Today does, Cnet does. Some big media outlets not even counting every single tech site. You'll never see it on your nightly news/CNN/MSNBC, that's simpy not their type of story to cover.




    I still dont think people get it though. Sure iOS used to be less buggy, lets say it had 100 features in iOS3, 120 in iOS4, and now in 11 were up to 600. The point bring the more you stuff in the more conflicts you can have and things that can go wrong (failure points) And if Apple doesnt add features to the OS people will complain that iOS is "boring" etc.

    So it's a lose lose no win scenario really then. Release major feature updates yearly and have it as bug free as possible by that time, or people become disinterested in iOS and move elsewhere.

    There is no such thing as a bug free OS released though on any platform. That's a total fallacy this thread implies as in Apple is somehow the only one, but instead one of every single one who have release bugs.
  17. jonnysods macrumors 603


    Sep 20, 2006
    There & Back Again
    There's a lot of products to release the software for, I think this one goes back to the 5S. Can't nail it consistently I guess.

    Someone did mention the wrath of Jobs. That's what lit a fire under teams to be the best and do the best.

    Even still I remember the Mobile Me roll out under Jobs...
  18. MistrSynistr macrumors 65816

    May 15, 2014
    You experience does match mine. iPhone 7 is royaly bugged out. iOS11.0.3 made my ipad mini 4 choppy and stuttery.
  19. slooksterPSV macrumors 68040


    Apr 17, 2004
    Every piece of software has bugs. It’s natural. It takes a lot of time and effort to track down bugs that are hidden deep in code. It could be as simple as a division by 0 error to as complicated as memory leaks. Bug free software just doesn’t exist.
  20. fischersd macrumors 601


    Oct 23, 2014
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    The great thing is, with all of the advancements they're making in AI, eventually the machines will be able to produce bug free software for us!!!

    Unfortunately, days later they'll realize that we're less perfect than they are and release a pathogen that will kill us all....

    The future's so bright.... ;)
  21. ssmed macrumors 6502


    Sep 28, 2009
    There obviously needs to be a lot more beta testers (ignoring all the beta triers and wingers who really are just window shopping). Debugging is a complex diagnostic process, and getting good information from hoi polloi who want to brag that they have the latest is very tricky even if they did remember what they did before it went wrong. You need repeatable, well documented events to start picking a bug apart.
  22. old-wiz, Oct 14, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017

    old-wiz macrumors G3

    Mar 26, 2008
    West Suburban Boston Ma
    I spent 30 years in software development and maintenance. It is pretty much impossible to release software that has no bugs. Part of the issue is the developers think feature X is the right way, but a group of customers think it is a bug. A decent size operating system runs to hundreds of thousands lines of code produced by different groups and different developers. Plus there are deadlines and sometimes a feature will not be fixed due to time constraints.
  23. aevan macrumors 68030


    Feb 5, 2015
    I find it really scary that you consider "fear for your job" an effective and viable motivational technique. These are professionals of the highest caliber - and no company should nurture a culture of fear. These people are driven with the desire to create something, not to keep their jobs. Fear for your job doesn't make you do your best work, everyone knows it, Sillicon Valley knows it well, Apple knows it - and Steve Jobs knew it too. This is just your perception based on different personalities of Steve and Tim, but in practice, people are just as (not) scared and motivated today, as they were before.

    To answer OP's question - any complex software comes with bugs, any complex solution to a complex problem comes with issues and errors. We're at a point in time where we're asking so much of our technology and our tolerance has become so low. We basically treat it as magic and act as angry children when that magic doesn't do what we expect it to.

    There's also the question of perception. From everything I've read - and I could be wrong, of course, but this is my opinion - the number of bugs in our operating systems and computers (Apple's or otherwise) hasn't grown, however - the number of people noticing them and publishing them to the world, on forums, YouTube channels, blogs, social networks - has grown dramatically. So have our expectations. I remember a time where almost every action on a computer required a few seconds (or much longer) of response time, but today we cal a few skipped frames "laggy". I'm not saying we should lower our standards, I really am not: however, we must be aware that, even with all these technical achievements, the technology seems to advance slower than our expectations.

    Third - most developers and manufacturers are in a race to offer customers new abilities, new features. People expect magic every time. OS versions that are meant to be performance & stability releases are deemed as "boring" by the public. Evolutionary iterrations of hardware are called "non-visionary".

    So, there will always be bugs. Also, when it comes to Apple, I really think that the perception of lower quality that some people seem to have is just that: a perception and nothing more. I don't think there are more bugs today than we used to have, especially relative to the number of features and abilities we have now.
  24. NoBoMac macrumors 68020

    Jul 1, 2014

    And: "They had two years and this version still has bugs! And my battery is worse, and it's laggy, and it's choppy, and it still does not copy Android re: function XYZ. It ruined my phone! Worst release ever!".
  25. cowfish macrumors member

    Jul 23, 2009

    And of course that’s your opinion, Just like I have my own, But there are also facts that support my thinking. Pretty much all the Steve jobs documentaries focus on how he was mean to his employees and people around him. Just like when the Mac demo wouldn’t say “hello” the engineer told Steve it was “impossible to fix in time” over, and over. Steve threatened to publicly humiliate him if it did not work in time. Guess what? The “impossible” became possible. Now, with that said, they used a crude workaround to make it appear to say hello when in fact it actually hadn’t, but Steve got the end result he wanted. So, you can be “scared” of my thinking all you want, but that doesn’t change history.

    Now, if you’ll excuse me I gotta restart my buggy-a** iPhone because text message alert banners are stuck on the top of my screen and won’t dismiss.
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