Why can my PPC play DVD's fine, but not the same file in .mp4?

HarCees

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 15, 2013
44
3
Ibook 1.42ghz

How come DVDs are playable trough the internal dvd-reader, but the same dvd ripped and encoded to itunes chopps and are just unplayable.(in quicktime as well) Can someone explain the mecanism behind this?

(Note: There is nothing wrong with the ripps or anything. I have a lot of rips of
dvds, and while the Ibook can play them from the dvd-player, to play the actuall .mp4/mv4 file is just a big nono..)

Thank you :apple:
 

Intell

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Jan 24, 2010
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PowerPC Macs have a hardware decoder for the DVD video, but lack one for most every other video format. Thus requiring they use the CPU to decode it.
 

HarCees

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 15, 2013
44
3
PowerPC Macs have a hardware decoder for the DVD video, but lack one for most every other video format. Thus requiring they use the CPU to decode it.
Wow thanks! Does the same apply to intel-macs?
 

MacBH928

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May 17, 2008
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I am pretty sure my iMac 800 mhz G4 can view dvd rips . Are you talking about HD 1080p stuff?
 

HarCees

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 15, 2013
44
3
I am pretty sure my iMac 800 mhz G4 can view dvd rips . Are you talking about HD 1080p stuff?
nono! Far from HD. The DVD's are ripped and then encoded by handbrake. My Iphone 4s plays them fine.
 

happyfrappy

macrumors 6502
Oct 14, 2007
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Location eh?
If you're ripping in H264 MP4 in Handbrake, the average 1Ghz G4 can only handle 480p(SD), anything higher you'll need an Intel Mac as the CPU/GPU is optimized for playback. Faster G4/G5 Macs can handle 720p.

Keep in mind ripping pre-H264 used MPEG encoding/decoding which requires more disk space but plays on most PowerPC/pre-Core 2 Windows PCs at 480-720p.
 

Imixmuan

macrumors 6502
Dec 18, 2010
386
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Well...

...this post just makes me miss Coreplayer. On an ibook G4 1.25 ghz I could watch 720p files with about 60% CPU usage. 1080p was just out of my reach, a faster G4 or G5 probably could have handled it. I guess there was never any success at cracking it for PowerPC. Shame, such a great piece of software, all locked up in a vault somewhere in California, never to be seen again.

I'd willingly buy it again, and again, for every Powermac I own or ever own in the future. The ibook G4 it was on bit the dust, and the next week Mobihand closed its doors, and that was that.
 

MacBH928

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May 17, 2008
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nono! Far from HD. The DVD's are ripped and then encoded by handbrake. My Iphone 4s plays them fine.
then I am guessing its something to do with encoding in H.264 . IIRC, videos were in .avi and I could watch them easy on my 800mhz G4 . I stopped using it in 2009, which also IIRC people were still not encoding in H.264 and .mkv. At least it was not popular. I think it used to be xvid or divx or something like that
 

Frost7

macrumors regular
Oct 15, 2012
192
1
Republic of Texas
If you're ripping in H264 MP4 in Handbrake, the average 1Ghz G4 can only handle 480p(SD), anything higher you'll need an Intel Mac as the CPU/GPU is optimized for playback. Faster G4/G5 Macs can handle 720p.
Can't speak for earlier G5s as I don't have experience with them outside of service, but late model G5s can run 1080p just fine.
 

tevion5

macrumors 68000
Jul 12, 2011
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PowerPC Macs have a hardware decoder for the DVD video, but lack one for most every other video format. Thus requiring they use the CPU to decode it.
Ahh so would it play the same quality with more chopping in MP4 than DVD format?
 

Intell

macrumors P6
Jan 24, 2010
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DVD playback will nearly always be 24 or 29 FPS. MP4 can be encoded to have the same FPS, but the system may not be able to show them all due to limitations of its CPU.
 

happyfrappy

macrumors 6502
Oct 14, 2007
343
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Location eh?
Can't speak for earlier G5s as I don't have experience with them outside of service, but late model G5s can run 1080p just fine.
Original G5(970) I'm talking about were single processor 1.6/1.8Ghz(PowerMac & first gen iMac G5s), Apple used an under-performing GeForce 5200 as the base GPU which ends up dumping more load to the CPU instead(like you see on 12" PBs)... Radeon 9600 and better were optimized for video decoding/playback(Radeon Mobility 9600/9700 given the 15"/17" PowerBook G4 decent headroom to the point stuff like EyeTV at 720p is possible).

Later G5s could push higher due better GPUs and 970fx had a more optimized pipeline(made the gap between G5 vs Pentium 4 wider).
 

MrPilot

macrumors 6502
Apr 30, 2013
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Original G5(970) I'm talking about were single processor 1.6/1.8Ghz(PowerMac & first gen iMac G5s), Apple used an under-performing GeForce 5200 as the base GPU which ends up dumping more load to the CPU instead(like you see on 12" PBs)... Radeon 9600 and better were optimized for video decoding/playback(Radeon Mobility 9600/9700 given the 15"/17" PowerBook G4 decent headroom to the point stuff like EyeTV at 720p is possible).

Later G5s could push higher due better GPUs and 970fx had a more optimized pipeline(made the gap between G5 vs Pentium 4 wider).
Have to jump in here.... sorry but no ppc mac has ever seen a decoder using hardware acceleration. There are some extra cards which would allow to encode certain codecs faster.

Btw, I saw insidious (yify) at 1080p the other day on the powerbook G4 1.67HR model using tiger and xbmc 9.04. How? Well, while the ppc mac has no VDADecoder (graphics accelerated video playback) it DOES HAVE a sort of capable altec velocity chip that helps the decoding process. On my 1Ghz powerbook I can easily watch 720p with it.

Of course not only the resolution is important, the bitrate is also a big factor. Using HD with a lower bitrate (like yify/yts) does help a lot... maybe around 1500-2000kbit/s is a good limit.
 

jruschme

macrumors 6502
Dec 20, 2011
264
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Brick, NJ
Have to jump in here.... sorry but no ppc mac has ever seen a decoder using hardware acceleration. There are some extra cards which would allow to encode certain codecs faster.
What about the DVD decoder card for the Wallstreet and Lombard G3's?
 

Imixmuan

macrumors 6502
Dec 18, 2010
386
101
Just for comparison...

Here is full screen video on a 20 year old 25mhz (yes, I said 25mhz) 040 Quadra. Its encoded with Cinepak, 320 x 240, at 15 fps and 3 mbs bit rate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9PyMmlUhNI

I can distinctly recall watching broadcast quality video being edited on a Quadra in 1993. Granted it had a dedicated AV card, but still....it blew my mind at the time, and the above totally blows my mind today.

Its all about the codec.
 

happyfrappy

macrumors 6502
Oct 14, 2007
343
49
Location eh?
Have to jump in here.... sorry but no ppc mac has ever seen a decoder using hardware acceleration. There are some extra cards which would allow to encode certain codecs faster.

Btw, I saw insidious (yify) at 1080p the other day on the powerbook G4 1.67HR model using tiger and xbmc 9.04. How? Well, while the ppc mac has no VDADecoder (graphics accelerated video playback) it DOES HAVE a sort of capable altec velocity chip that helps the decoding process. On my 1Ghz powerbook I can easily watch 720p with it.

Of course not only the resolution is important, the bitrate is also a big factor. Using HD with a lower bitrate (like yify/yts) does help a lot... maybe around 1500-2000kbit/s is a good limit.
Using OpenGL to render video is still a form of acceleration, disable it on OS X and see how your Mac "feels" & Quicktime playback suffers like an iMac 233-333 non-supported Rage II/Pro :rolleyes:
Bitrate matters, however the encoder is a factor--some MP4s are pure H.264 but others may use MPEG(some YouTube MP4s have their video compressed by MPEG and audio track is MP4)
You have "hardware acceleration" on ATI Radeon 9xxx series, ATI optimized the platform as it was part of their "All-In-Wonder" platform--MacOS drivers take advantage of the OpenGL strength(which nVidia lagged until the 6-series). Try comparing video playback on a 12" vs 15" PowerBook to an external monitor, a slower 15" will spank a higher clocked 12"... my 12"(1.33ghz) chokes on 720p EyeTV recordings however a slower 15"(1.25Ghz) is smooth even though it has a 4200 RPM HDD.

nVidia Pure Video H.264 acceleration launched on the 6-series... which is why the 6600GT is popular for Power Mac G5 owners :rolleyes:
 

Intell

macrumors P6
Jan 24, 2010
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While some GPU's in PowerPC Macs have hardware MPEG4 or h.264 decoding abilities, it isn't used in PowerPC Mac OS X. Support for such things didn't come around until 10.6.3, and even then only with some of the then newer GPUs.
 

MacBH928

macrumors 68040
May 17, 2008
3,373
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Here is full screen video on a 20 year old 25mhz (yes, I said 25mhz) 040 Quadra. Its encoded with Cinepak, 320 x 240, at 15 fps and 3 mbs bit rate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9PyMmlUhNI

I can distinctly recall watching broadcast quality video being edited on a Quadra in 1993. Granted it had a dedicated AV card, but still....it blew my mind at the time, and the above totally blows my mind today.

Its all about the codec.
I always wondered how did these machines that probably could not run Quake could edit video for TV (maybe films?) . I think I saw Amiga machines in the 80's that did video editing. I remember my G4 800mhz took serious time to encode video.