WHY can't you overclock on a MAC PRO? (rant)

jimbo1337

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 12, 2009
6
0
I've always loved Apple for their innovation and style and have always been a loyal customer. I recently bought a quadcore mac pro for almost $4k and it's great and all, but what really irks me is that my friend's $1000 core i5 PC matches my i7 xeon mac pro in CPU benchmarks. He bought a $60 watercooler and took his processor from 3.4 to 4.7GHz in like 30 minutes. A mac user has to pay $500 more just for a few hundred extra MHz and it STILL won't even be close to 4.7GHz. I'm sorry Apple, but that is just ridiculous.

Another thing that really makes me angry is that I had to pay a THOUSAND DOLLARS more for a 512GB ssd when my PC using friend bought a Crucial M4 512GB for $379.99 on newegg.

Don't get me wrong, I love macs and will always use mac but many of us are starting to get fed up with the absurd profit margins that Apple charges and we aren't even getting the best performance despite how much extra we pay compared to the PC kiddies.

I really hope Apple starts opening up it's platform and maybe lower their prices on high end hardware just a little bit, because it's starting to seem like I payed $3k more than I needed to so I could have a sleek aluminium chassis and a $30 OS.
 

avemestr

macrumors regular
Aug 14, 2012
177
23
I've always loved Apple for their innovation and style and have always been a loyal customer. I recently bought a quadcore mac pro for almost $4k and it's great and all, but what really irks me is that my friend's $1000 core i5 PC matches my i7 xeon mac pro in CPU benchmarks. He bought a $60 watercooler and took his processor from 3.4 to 4.7GHz in like 30 minutes. A mac user has to pay $500 more just for a few hundred extra MHz and it STILL won't even be close to 4.7GHz. I'm sorry Apple, but that is just ridiculous.
Your friend bought a PC. You bought a workstation.

Another thing that really makes me angry is that I had to pay a THOUSAND DOLLARS more for a 512GB ssd when my PC using friend bought a Crucial M4 512GB for $379.99 on newegg.
You didn't have to. You could just as easily have bought a Crucial (or other) SSD and plugged that in.
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,166
580
Finland
Mac Pro is a workstation, not a gaming rig. Reliability and stability are far more important for workstation users because the system is usually used for making profit (machine down = no income).

You can use any SATA drive in a Mac Pro, nothing forced you to buy the SSD from Apple.
 

Whaditis

macrumors regular
May 18, 2010
137
6
I've always loved Apple for their innovation and style and have always been a loyal customer. I recently bought a quadcore mac pro for almost $4k and it's great and all, but what really irks me is that my friend's $1000 core i5 PC matches my i7 xeon mac pro in CPU benchmarks. He bought a $60 watercooler and took his processor from 3.4 to 4.7GHz in like 30 minutes. A mac user has to pay $500 more just for a few hundred extra MHz and it STILL won't even be close to 4.7GHz. I'm sorry Apple, but that is just ridiculous.

Another thing that really makes me angry is that I had to pay a THOUSAND DOLLARS more for a 512GB ssd when my PC using friend bought a Crucial M4 512GB for $379.99 on newegg.

Don't get me wrong, I love macs and will always use mac but many of us are starting to get fed up with the absurd profit margins that Apple charges and we aren't even getting the best performance despite how much extra we pay compared to the PC kiddies.

I really hope Apple starts opening up it's platform and maybe lower their prices on high end hardware just a little bit, because it's starting to seem like I payed $3k more than I needed to so I could have a sleek aluminium chassis and a $30 OS.
Where do I start?

I think you need to sell your Mac Pro and go building PCs, then you could have your pimpin machine.

You might be the wrong customer for a Mac Pro.

Whad
 

GermanyChris

macrumors 601
Jul 3, 2011
4,185
2
Here
Apple doesn't open up it's EFI like Gigbyte and company do.

The cooling on MP's is just not enough to keep a 4.7 Ghz i7 with hyper threading cool..

If OC'ing appeals to you you have bought into the wrong brand..

Quad core MP are not impressively fast anyway..
 

jimbo1337

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 12, 2009
6
0
Reliability and stability are far more important for workstation users because the system is usually used for making profit (machine down = no income).

I agree with this, but considering how easy it is to achieve a stable overclock with the intel SB/IB chips I see little reason to not OC. I know several people with high OC's and not a single crash so obviously its not 100% necessary to have a low clocked xeon in a workstation. For a server I could see why, though.
 

darkplanets

macrumors 6502a
Nov 6, 2009
853
0
I've always loved Apple for their innovation and style and have always been a loyal customer. I recently bought a quadcore mac pro for almost $4k and it's great and all, but what really irks me is that my friend's $1000 core i5 PC matches my i7 xeon mac pro in CPU benchmarks. He bought a $60 watercooler and took his processor from 3.4 to 4.7GHz in like 30 minutes. A mac user has to pay $500 more just for a few hundred extra MHz and it STILL won't even be close to 4.7GHz. I'm sorry Apple, but that is just ridiculous.

Another thing that really makes me angry is that I had to pay a THOUSAND DOLLARS more for a 512GB ssd when my PC using friend bought a Crucial M4 512GB for $379.99 on newegg.

Don't get me wrong, I love macs and will always use mac but many of us are starting to get fed up with the absurd profit margins that Apple charges and we aren't even getting the best performance despite how much extra we pay compared to the PC kiddies.

I really hope Apple starts opening up it's platform and maybe lower their prices on high end hardware just a little bit, because it's starting to seem like I payed $3k more than I needed to so I could have a sleek aluminium chassis and a $30 OS.
The only reason the OS is $30 to upgrade is because the hardware costs so much... look at the traditional Windows new license and upgrade prices (barring the W8 upgrades, which Microsoft is just stepping in to). They're different business models -- one gets you cheap hardware at the cost of a more expensive OS (if purchased legally), the other has expensive hardware but a cheap OS.

If you're that worried about specs and benchmarks though, you should have bought your own RAM, graphics card, SSD, and RAID array and DIY. Better yet, if you're that interested in overclocking and specs, you can build a hackintosh. If I recall correctly there was an overclocking program for older iMacs a few years ago.... I don't know what happened to that.

Typically Apple procs are clocked where they are for two reasons: heat control and proc stability. It's a question of thermal engineering and reliability for workstations, and with todays core scaling and self overclocking ("turbo boost") the traditional ceiling means far less.
 

El Awesome

macrumors 6502
Jul 21, 2012
471
0
Zurich
Actually, there is a overclockig app for Mac Pros. Go Google it.

But I wouldn't overclock your machine since your reliability flushes down the toilet. And that is the same issue with your friends PC. In 2-3 years he'll get a new PC.
 

GermanyChris

macrumors 601
Jul 3, 2011
4,185
2
Here
I agree with this, but considering how easy it is to achieve a stable overclock with the intel SB/IB chips I see little reason to not OC. I know several people with high OC's and not a single crash so obviously its not 100% necessary to have a low clocked xeon in a workstation. For a server I could see why, though.
Sell the MP and MP and build a hack, the best of both worlds..
 

thekev

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2010
6,721
1,820
I agree with this, but considering how easy it is to achieve a stable overclock with the intel SB/IB chips I see little reason to not OC. I know several people with high OC's and not a single crash so obviously its not 100% necessary to have a low clocked xeon in a workstation. For a server I could see why, though.
SB/IB aren't in the mac pro. Ivy Bridge chips appropriate to it aren't even out. There are a couple workstation brands that overclock. Boxx comes to mind. I'm pretty sure some of the smaller vendors have such options as well. It won't happen with Apple, and OSX isn't a necessity for most people anyway. It's fully possible to build a PC that can be overclocked, but Apple will never test and certify one. This is one of the few areas where I feel comfortable saying "never".

Typically Apple procs are clocked where they are for two reasons: heat control and proc stability. It's a question of thermal engineering and reliability for workstations, and with todays core scaling and self overclocking ("turbo boost") the traditional ceiling means far less.
They also tend to favor silent operation in the desktops.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G3
Mar 10, 2009
8,476
1,467
I agree with this, but considering how easy it is to achieve a stable overclock with the intel SB/IB chips I see little reason to not OC.
Stable for how long? Stable enough to run some benchmarks for a couple of hours. Versus running overclocked 24/7/365 for 3 years straight.

Go to the top500 supercomputer listing and find a real workhorse that is in permanent overclock state.

http://www.top500.org/lists/2012/06


The common overclockers will have dump their rig in a 1-3 years for the next shiny, fastest option on the market. They don't even try to measure substantive long term stability.
 

strausd

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2008
2,997
1
Texas
I've always loved Apple for their innovation and style and have always been a loyal customer. I recently bought a quadcore mac pro for almost $4k and it's great and all, but what really irks me is that my friend's $1000 core i5 PC matches my i7 xeon mac pro in CPU benchmarks. He bought a $60 watercooler and took his processor from 3.4 to 4.7GHz in like 30 minutes. A mac user has to pay $500 more just for a few hundred extra MHz and it STILL won't even be close to 4.7GHz. I'm sorry Apple, but that is just ridiculous.

Another thing that really makes me angry is that I had to pay a THOUSAND DOLLARS more for a 512GB ssd when my PC using friend bought a Crucial M4 512GB for $379.99 on newegg.

Don't get me wrong, I love macs and will always use mac but many of us are starting to get fed up with the absurd profit margins that Apple charges and we aren't even getting the best performance despite how much extra we pay compared to the PC kiddies.

I really hope Apple starts opening up it's platform and maybe lower their prices on high end hardware just a little bit, because it's starting to seem like I payed $3k more than I needed to so I could have a sleek aluminium chassis and a $30 OS.
Go to any server room around the globe and tell me how many Xeons are overclocked.
 

softwareguy256

macrumors regular
Jun 5, 2010
129
0
The state of affairs with mac pro hardware is pretty dismal compared to windows. That said, the performance gained from an overclock is beneficial but will not be a game changer. I suggest scaling your business so you can buy multiple workstations and delegate work to each of them.
 

G4DP

macrumors 65816
Mar 28, 2007
1,451
3
Actually, there is a overclockig app for Mac Pros. Go Google it.

But I wouldn't overclock your machine since your reliability flushes down the toilet. And that is the same issue with your friends PC. In 2-3 years he'll get a new PC.
If you are referring to the tool from ZDnet, it doesn't make any difference to the reliability. I ran my 2.8 at 3.1 for 24/7 for 3 months.

It just messes up the computers internal clock. Has caused no ill effects what so ever.
 

ScottishCaptain

macrumors 6502a
Oct 4, 2008
872
468
Troll post?

So the op spends god knows how much money on a thermally managed professional workstation, then complains that he can't overclock it like his friends crappy little tweaker motherboard can? Huh?

-SC
 

Derpage

Suspended
Mar 7, 2012
451
185
Troll post?

So the op spends god knows how much money on a thermally managed professional workstation, then complains that he can't overclock it like his friends crappy little tweaker motherboard can? Huh?

-SC
Accuse OP of trolling, then start flaming... :confused:
 

Omnius

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2012
537
3
I'm inclined to agree with the other folks. The OP has not indicated that he needs a workstation. He made the case that he might be a gamer looking to do a little work while at home.
 

brentsg

macrumors 68040
Oct 15, 2008
3,414
775
If you are referring to the tool from ZDnet, it doesn't make any difference to the reliability. I ran my 2.8 at 3.1 for 24/7 for 3 months.

It just messes up the computers internal clock. Has caused no ill effects what so ever.
Three whole months huh, case closed then.

:rolleyes:
 

DPUser

macrumors 6502a
Jan 17, 2012
890
211
Rancho Bohemia, California
Lack of overclockability is a legit point of discussion in my book, although I am quite pleased I can do a CPU upgrade that will make my 2009 quad core roar like never before. Thank You Netkas!

Complaining about Apple's SSD prices is naive, at best. If the OP is tech-saavy enough to overclock and maintain his rig, he should know better than to buy HDs and RAM from Apple.
 

GermanyChris

macrumors 601
Jul 3, 2011
4,185
2
Here
Lack of overclockability is a legit point of discussion in my book, although I am quite pleased I can do a CPU upgrade that will make my 2009 quad core roar like never before. Thank You Netkas!

Complaining about Apple's SSD prices is naive, at best. If the OP is tech-saavy enough to overclock and maintain his rig, he should know better than to buy HDs and RAM from Apple.
He's not, his friend is..

It's not like overclocking takes 10min, safe overclocking is an ongoing many day process.