Why do Apple Geniuses recommend killing apps manually?

Discussion in 'iOS 7' started by iphnhelp, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. iphnhelp macrumors regular

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    #1
    Took an iPhone in to the Apple store because the screen went black and couldn't get it to DFU restore. (It has a broken power button and turns out there was lint in the lighting plug so it wouldn't restart on plug in).

    They said the reason the phone shut down was because it ran out of memory with too many apps open and it caused the system to freeze. They suggested double tapping then swiping up all the apps to kill them.

    Why do they recommend this when it goes against the way Apple describes how multitasking works? It manages background apps memory automatically.

    Now my whole family spends time manually closing their apps like it's a computer.
     
  2. Armen macrumors 604

    Armen

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    #2
    that idiot at the Apple store needs to be fired. The only time you should ever need to close an app manually is if it's frozen or is not working correctly.
     
  3. ugcop macrumors 6502a

    ugcop

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    #3
    That really hasn't been true with 7.0. Maybe that is the way they would like it to work but in real world use since 7.0 if you have apps that haven't been force closed you can run low on memory while browsing. Memory management has not been working well.
     
  4. Armen macrumors 604

    Armen

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    #4
    There are 2 ways you can approach this given the current situation:

    1. You tell the user nothing:

    They use their apps until a low memory situation drops their app quietly to the springboard and after some odd "what happened?" look they just open the app again.

    2. You instruct the user to always manually close apps:

    This turns into an obsessive "close" fest in which the user obsessively closes apps all day long thinking it helps performance when in fact it hinders performance by not allowing commonly used apps to reside in memory.


    The real solution is to wait for Apple to tweak the memory management.
     
  5. iphnhelp thread starter macrumors regular

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    #5
    Agreed, but they've been giving this advice since before iOS 7. I first heard this years ago on iOS 5-6. At multiple stores with multiple geniuses.
     
  6. Armen macrumors 604

    Armen

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    #6
    Apple Geniuses are as good as Wireless carrier store employees and the people who work at Best Buy. There is always 1 or 2 people who really know their stuff and the rest just give out whatever info they want because nothing is checked for accuracy.
     
  7. ugcop macrumors 6502a

    ugcop

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    #7
    Yes, I agree the fix will come with 7.1.

    The employee is in a bad spot, like you say he can tell the customer nothing or tell them to close the apps . Problem is he can't say wait for the fix because that insinuates it isn't right. Shhh, we aren't supposed to know it is buggy.
     
  8. cynics macrumors G3

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    #8

    I can almost guarantee this.

    I returned my iPad Air due to Safari crashing and when I demonstrated it they wanted to immediately give me a new one (usually they'd want to restore from new). I showed them on the demo display model using Apple.com (not as easy as nin.com but still not hard) and they refunded me. I could tell that one of the employees knew there was an issue but he wasn't saying anything.
     
  9. IGregory macrumors 6502a

    IGregory

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    #9
    Okay, why should the rest of believe what you say? You have not said what your qualifications are. I'd rather follow the instruction of someone who has been trained on the subject over someone who has not been trained. If you google this topic there is plenty support for closing apps that are not being used.
     
  10. elmizzt macrumors newbie

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    #10
    you don't have you believe him. it's not his job to convince you of the truth. if you dont want to believe him, you can do your own research and reach your own conclusions.

    the reason geniuses say this to customers is basically placebo effect
     
  11. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #11
    That would be the fault of developers not paying attention to the new app suspension protocols.

    Any app that has been properly designed around the new methods only need to force quit if it gets frozen.

    As far a Genius's go, I doubt any of them have any training on the actual OS memory handling, or memory management. In a retail setting you simply can't take the time to explain how code or OS's or memory actually work to a client (in fact doing so tends to just scare people about using their computers) so sometimes a convenient explanation takes precedence over complex ones as far as line/time management goes.
     
  12. faldane macrumors newbie

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    #12
    I've had similar experiences, I always thought it was apart of their training.
     
  13. eric3312 macrumors 6502

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    #13
    So, do apps automatically close after a certain period of inactivity then? I was always under the impression that I should close my apps out manually to save on battery life. I am confused :confused::confused::confused:
     
  14. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #14
    They will lay dormant in a suspended state consuming no resources, other than RAM that may be reserved. If the system determines that more RAM is needed for an active app it will start closing the oldest dormant apps to reclaim RAM.

    If the app has been designed properly, when it is selected again it should resume exactly where it was unless the designer determined that resuming is not needed.

    In short, you shouldn't have to close your apps, and doing so is more placebo than anything.
     
  15. C DM, Feb 10, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014

    C DM macrumors Westmere

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    #15
    They might also say it just in case there is an actual app that is stuck or something else of that sort that might be happening, where closing the apps might help out. Not a likely situation, but if it does happen then that could help, so they might mention it at least for that sake, especially if there's really nothing else that they can offer beyond that.
     
  16. iphnhelp thread starter macrumors regular

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    #16
    Yes, exactly. My question for all of you is why have the Apple store employes been trained to recommend the opposite, even going back to iOS 6 days.

    Any apple store employes have thoughts?
     
  17. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #17
    You can read my view from a post or two before. For the record I was a GeekSquad agent for two years (Known in my store as "the apple guy"), I think it has more to do with not overwhelming clients than it does with dispensing completely accurate information.
     
  18. eric3312 macrumors 6502

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    #18
    It seems like there is a lot of information out there on the web that states you should kill your apps if you are not actively using them in order to save battery life.

    I certainly believe you and respect your opinion but would you happen to have any articles or information to support your view that you don't need to close apps?
     
  19. PNutts macrumors 601

    PNutts

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    #19
    Anyone who picks up my kid's iPod with 50 apps in the recently used app list and then opens Settings will see the reason that you should remove them all from the recently used apps list. You can believe Apple when they tell you how it should work or you can close them and not suffer from performance issues.
     
  20. iapplelove macrumors 68040

    iapplelove

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    #20
    I usually close some of my video apps or anything that streams and keep everything else open. IMO it DOES make a difference depending on which app
     
  21. PicnicTutorials macrumors 6502a

    PicnicTutorials

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    Yes apps are only supposed to run in the background for a max 10 min or so. But in reality over the last few years there have been 100+ times where I had to go through and manually kill all my apps because my phone was slow or unresponsive. And WaLa just like that my phone works again. Not having a single button to kill all apps is the single biggest oversight in the ios 5 years running. It would be so easy to implement to.
     
  22. ugcop macrumors 6502a

    ugcop

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    #22
    It would be very easy to implement but like an alcoholic it would require admitting that you have a problem. When you harp over and over that it Will WORK. it is hard to come back and say oops we are going to give you a kill switch.
     
  23. Altis macrumors 68020

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    #23
    The Facebook app is a confirmed killer of battery. Even with background app refresh disabled, and having it as the only background app in the task switcher, it absolutely eats up the battery. Even more ridiculous is that even leaving the app for as little as 5-10 seconds, then open it again, and it has to reload everything / lose your place. It's the worst of both worlds... :confused:

    http://www.tuaw.com/2013/06/04/developer-suspects-facebook-app-is-behind-iphone-battery-drain/

    Some apps do need a force close or they use techniques to keep themselves awake in the background.
     
  24. cynics, Feb 10, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014

    cynics macrumors G3

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    #24
    Why do Apple Geniuses recommend killing apps manually?

    You shouldn't have to close an app unless it freezes. Then force closing it will allow you to reopen it.

    Background run time is 10 seconds then it drops to a suspended state held in RAM until that RAM is needed by foreground task. At that point the app in the recent app list is nothing more then a place marker, hence why you'll notice an app refresh as if you are just opening it for the first time. Apps can run longer with certain Apple granted permissions. A music player for example. Or other permissions, connected to wifi, plugged in, etc. Dropbox is a good example, put it in the background while uploading your camera roll and it stop at 10 seconds until you bring it to the foreground.

    Background refresh doesn't need the app actually be in the recent app window. When enabled apps can refresh themselves. An example would be find my friends when a friend uses the app to see your location.

    I hope this clears up some stuff.

    It's all on Apples webpage to look up btw.

    http://support.apple.com/kb/ht5137

    http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4211

    Like stated above there are some apps that can stretch Apples rules so closing them isn't a bad idea but these app are very few in number.

    Edit : I maybe wrong about the background refresh btw. According to that second link Apple says if you force close the app it can't update. However here is the thing.

    Testing with FB content from push notifications would be preloaded with background refresh on. But I always kept the app closed because of the above mentioned battery drain. So according to Apple that shouldn't be.

    Testing with FmF with background refresh off it's operation was very erratic and I never remembered it working. Again, rarely have that app open. Again according to Apple it shouldn't matter. Maybe I'm misunderstanding them.
     
  25. cynics macrumors G3

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    #25
    Another thing to keep in mind is RAM on a mobile device doesn't use any more or less power being full or empty.

    Filling and emptying it is what uses power. Think of it like filling it with nothing vs emptying it.

    So depending on how you are using the device (closing and opening the same app) you can be using more battery just by killing apps.

    Probably not enough to worry about but worth mentioning it.
     

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