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Why do people still believe AAC is proprietary, but WMA isn't?

James L said:
I am well aware of that, but the original poster asked the question in the context of the iPod. To the end user AAC+ fairplay, or just AAC, is the same thing. The end result is that Apple is restricting the use of the iPod and what can go on it, and not allowing others in. You and I can get as technical as we want, but the net result is the same... Apple is making it proprietary.

I am not saying this is a bad thing, but let's not acuse M$ of doing something without acknowledging that Apple does the same.

Cheers,

James
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did you even read what i wrote? i said i don't fault the journalists (thus the average consumers reading it) for confusing AAC vs. AAC+fairplay. i got into technical stuff because i thought people here at MR could probably stomach and comprehend the whole issue better - and i even said that right in the quote of my post you mentioned.
 
aafuss1 said:
I'm suprised why Apple hasn't decided to include Ogg Vorbis support in iPod's or iTunes-it's an open source format?
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why? what's apple's incentive? i think it's like asking iPod Photo to support raw format... it's such a minor format that the effort to include it is not worth the payoff. (yeah, i know ogg vorbis is superior compared to other formats, yada yada yada... that's not my point.)

however, iPod Photo does support .png, yet minor, open but superior (to gif) format... so maybe... it really could be that iPod HW can't handle the codec?
 
jxyama said:
why? what's apple's incentive? i think it's like asking iPod Photo to support raw format... it's such a minor format that the effort to include it is not worth the payoff. (yeah, i know ogg vorbis is superior compared to other formats, yada yada yada... that's not my point.)

however, iPod Photo does support .png, yet minor, open but superior (to gif) format... so maybe... it really could be that iPod HW can't handle the codec?
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You're kidding, right? If you're serious, what computational requirements does Ogg Vorbis place on a processor that makes it so much more difficult to decode than other digital audio formats? Come on, the only reason that the iPod does not support Ogg Vorbis is that Apple did not program it to so so. I can think of two reasons that Apple does not support Ogg Vorbis on the iPod. One is that it simply is not necessary. The iPod is a relatively transparent portable consumer appliance that allows people to play their music or other audio content. It is not a technology platform intended to showcase every conceivable audio format. The second reason is that Ogg Vorbis is an opensource, mixed-license format. I really don't think that Apple wants to get involved in the tangled knot of distributing software partially under a BSD-like license and partially under a LGPL license
 
MisterMe said:
You're kidding, right? If you're serious, what computational requirements does Ogg Vorbis place on a processor that makes it so much more difficult to decode than other digital audio formats?
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i really don't know - hence i'm not "kidding." i've read other people's opinions on how vorbis may be more complex, i have no idea. would you care to research to see if there are reports indicating how vorbis codec is no more complicated than the mp3's?

in any case, i'm not all that interested myself. it's just that it gets a bit annoying to hear about vorbis all the time like a broken record.
 
The reason why I started this thread is I fear that all those statements about the iPod not supporting the "industry standard" WMA might hurt iPod sales. Don't forget, a fair share of iPods have been sold to Windows users who get WMP through Windows update. Although you can convert unprotected WMA files to AAC (probably with a loss in quality?), once they start buying songs from MSN Music or any other service using WMA, there is no possibility to load those songs onto an iPod except for burning them to a CD and importing them into iTunes. Secondly, I do think reporters should check their facts. AAC itself is not proprietary. There has be quite a discussion in this thread on whether "proprietary" is a good or bad thing. To me it always has slightly negative touch because "proprietary" usually means no or limited choice. It's true, Apple doesn't really offer a choice, but I believe they have a good reason, offering a closed system that just works and especially one that doesn't make users fiddling around with certificates like the ones WMP uses. That's a point that IMHO should get more credit in all those reviews.
 
JordanNZ said:
Vorbis does use a LOT more cpu power to decode than the other formats.. Although I doubt this would have anything to do with the ipod not supporting it.
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Well, it would certainly impact the battery life of any player that supported it. My understanding of Vorbis, and I may be off base, it that it is very similar to AAC, but, obviously, without the licensing issues.
 
I have installed the iTunes Ogg Vorbis Plug in, and there is a difference in cpu usage. About 4% more, but to an iPod that might be a lot...

This one is an AAC file:
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Anthony's Song-- Moving Out, for those of you who want to criticize my listening habits...

This one is an Ogg Voribs file:
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Octorock, a remix on some Link 2 music. Never played that game but the music is pretty neat.


Those are not taken at peaks or valleys, instead I waited until the file had been playing for a little bit and then took the picture. I also took ~3 screen shots for each and took the most average one. So now we know that Ogg Vorbis does use more CPU power than AAC.

BTW, my computer is a 1.33 Ghz Rev. C PowerBook G4, 768MB of RAM, and an 80GB 5200rpm internal drive.
 

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If it uses 4% more of a G4 at that clockspeed.. It will tax the iPod.

The 3rd Gen ipods have trouble playing back high bitrate mp3s.. So Vorbis could be a problem. Were the bitrates of the two files similar?
 
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