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robvas

macrumors 68040
Mar 29, 2009
3,240
629
USA
eBay prices are crazy. Too bad they never made a 2012 17" model.
1920x1200 + quad i7 is still potent. Especially with the ability to have dual hard drives.
 

Dark Dragoon

macrumors 6502a
Jul 28, 2006
844
3
UK
Erm, the only thing the 17" has is the screen size. Expandability and ports are more flexible on the rMBP: USB3, 2xThunderbolt, 802.11ac. Unless you need tons of internal storage of course.

For me the screen size is one of the most important things being that it has a 17" 1920x1200 display so I can see more content without having to reduce the text down to a size I can't read comfortably. The retina display is of less interest to me.

The internal storage is indeed more flexible, I like having a 1.5TB Fusion Drive in my 17" MBP, this is the other main reason for me to keep my 17" MBP. It beats having to carry around external drives, although I still use a few external drives for infrequently used data. Going to a rMBP or MBA would be a big step down for me in this area (especially as 1TB of storage in a rMBP isn't cheap).

However there are other potential benefits that some people might like, such as:

- Better built-in speakers
- Expresscard slot
- 3 USB ports
- Built in gigabit ethernet (don't need a dongle which uses up another port)
- Built in FireWire 800 (don't need a dongle which uses up another port)
- Built in optical drive (I don't need it and have removed it for more internal storage, but some people do)
- Infra Red remote (useful for presentations)
- Separate headphone and line in ports (plus digital input and output)

Sure for most of these you can have a load of dongles, hubs or other external devices attached to your machine, but maybe for some people these are useful to have built in. Especially as the rMBP has fewer external ports, and things like thunderbolt docks aren't exactly cheap.
 

disasterdrone

macrumors 6502
Aug 31, 2013
300
0
Erm, the only thing the 17" has is the screen size. Expandability and ports are more flexible on the rMBP: USB3, 2xThunderbolt, 802.11ac. Unless you need tons of internal storage of course.

Well, that's a question of what you need. If, for example, you want built in ethernet, fw800, express card, the option of two internal drives and the storage flexibility, then the 17 wins out. If you don't want the screen size, don't have a large volume of files, don't use the express card slot etc, and want a smaller but swankier screen, then clearly you'll prefer the rMBP, but the question was why would anyone choose the 17 - those are the reasons.
 

Intelligent

macrumors 6502a
Aug 7, 2013
922
2
I have noticed on eBay, there are still people that buy the 17" MBP to as much money as a 15" Retina. Why? Isn't the 17" slower with the older technology?


Upgradeability, Screen size, and its not that old yet. I think people will buy for for normal use at least in 3 years.
 

disasterdrone

macrumors 6502
Aug 31, 2013
300
0
Erm, the only thing the 17" has is the screen size. Expandability and ports are more flexible on the rMBP: USB3, 2xThunderbolt, 802.11ac. Unless you need tons of internal storage of course.

So - as I said:
1. The screen size.
2. The ports (ethernet, firewire, express card). If I need to plug in an ethernet connection and some firewire drives I need to carry a bunch of christmas tree ornaments, and I'm screwed if I forget them.
3. Internal storage.

For people who use their computer professionally workflow is a big issue. Having to replace drives or introduce dongles, and move material off internal drives onto christmas trees they have to carry around is a disruption they don't want.
 

KeegM480

macrumors 6502a
Aug 13, 2013
780
31
Nashville, TN
Some people get the 17" cMBP over the 15" rMPB for the same reason I got a 15" cMBP over a 13" rMPB.

Screen size! Its amazing the difference that little bit of screen makes. You also get a cooler device, thanks to the extra fan, and a much more upgradable device.
 

Mike Boreham

macrumors 68040
Aug 10, 2006
3,713
1,725
UK
I have noticed on eBay, there are still people that buy the 17" MBP to as much money as a 15" Retina. Why? Isn't the 17" slower with the older technology?

My 17 inch MBP total internal capacity of nearly 2.5 Tb (960 Gb SSD and a 1.5 Tb HDD) on board....all my data is always with me.....no messy externals.

When at base it is connected to a 27 inch Thunderbolt display so the Retina is no benefit. When away from base I have 1920x1080 real estate, same a a Retina, but on a larger screen but slightly less sharp. As has been said the real world performance difference between a 2.5 Sandybridge quad core and latest Retinas is not great.

Prices are a function of supply and demand. People with 17 inch MBPs are hanging onto them. More people want them than are available so the price goes up. I have three of them and not looking to sell yet.

Why would I want a Retina?
 
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disasterdrone

macrumors 6502
Aug 31, 2013
300
0
My prediction Mike? In about 2 minutes someone will be telling you you don't need that much storage, or screen real-estate. ;)
 

smcgil9899

macrumors member
Original poster
Jun 17, 2008
47
0
It is simply my observation that one can usually get a refurb or used 2012-2013 for the same or even lower price than a used 17".

Where I live, there are always 2012 Macbook Pro 15 Retinas with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD, sometimes even the 512GB SSD, for sale on Craigslist for $900-$1400. I'm actually talking with a guy now about his Retina. It is a 2012 15 Retina with a 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD. He is asking $1000.00 and it is legit. I have already seen it and tested it out. I'm just waiting to get the money together.
 

heisenberg123

macrumors 603
Oct 31, 2010
6,496
9
Hamilton, Ontario
Where I live, there are always 2012 Macbook Pro 15 Retinas with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD, sometimes even the 512GB SSD, for sale on Craigslist for $900-$1400. I'm actually talking with a guy now about his Retina. It is a 2012 15 Retina with a 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD. He is asking $1000.00 and it is legit. I have already seen it and tested it out. I'm just waiting to get the money together.

is there a high amount of MBP thefts where you live?
 

Commy1

macrumors 6502a
Feb 25, 2013
728
73
I'd like to sit in front of one just because it's a dying breed. No more are in production and will never be again most likely. As mentioned it's upgradable to some level, at least a lot more so than what's available today.
And dat screen...
 

coldjeanzzz

macrumors 6502a
Nov 4, 2012
655
17
I figured screen size, but why would someone pay $1800 for a 17" MBP with older technology, for example, an older graphics card, USB 2.0, older i7 processor, etc? They could get a used or refurbished 15" Retina for the same amount.

I know it sounds crazy, but a lot of people out there who want Macs don't understand anything about specs. All they know is that Macs can be expensive and if they can find a used one for $700 on eBay then it looks like a good buy. They ignore things like battery life, HDD vs SSD, RAM, etc.
 

smcgil9899

macrumors member
Original poster
Jun 17, 2008
47
0
is there a high amount of MBP thefts where you live?

I don't know about thefts, but when buying off of Craigslist, I take every precaution I can. I check out everything. If I get a bad vibe, I will check the serial number with the police. I never have been burned by buying on Craigslist, knock on wood.

I live 5 miles from Chattanooga, Tn. There are 6-8 huge cities, for example, Atlanta, Knoxville, Nashville, Huntsville, Ashville, Macon, Birmingham, etc. around me within a 2 hour drive. There are always Macbook Pros for sale.

In February 2013, I bought a 2012 15 Retina for $1400 with AppleCare off of Craigslist. I sold it though because I had always used 17" laptops and couldn't get over the small size. But for the last 6 months, I have been using my daughters laptop and her's is a old 15.6" Toshiba. So I guess I have pretty much gotten used to smaller laptops. I have been saving my money and supposed to get a bonus from work, so I'm getting my own computer. But I really like the 17" screen size, but don't want to waste my hard earned money on a computer that is outdated. But from what I have gathered from this thread, is that the 17" Macbook Pro is still a powerful machine. Am I correct? I just use my computer for light Photoshop and light video editing.
 

fenjen

macrumors 6502
Nov 9, 2012
352
24
Apparently it does for the particular benchmark :eek: If you have some better ways to quantify the performance difference, please share. We are especially interested in media work.

P.S. A base Haswell Macbook Air gets better scores on the Peacekeeper browser benchmark than my quad core Ivy Bridge rMBP. I'd say that the performance increase which is of interest for the majority of users ;)

Oh I'm sorry, I just looked up the way geekbench scores are constructed and it turns out that if a device get a score that's for example 2 times as high as another device, it indeed actually finished the tasks two times as fast, relatively (and therefor the performance would also bee 2 times as much), so that's my bad.

But yeah as you said yourself, programs behave very differently on different architectures, so in real life speeds can be very different from what benchmarks may lead you to believe. However, if you look at multiple benchmarks and compare them to a known pc, you can get a general idea of how fast a computer should be.
 

disasterdrone

macrumors 6502
Aug 31, 2013
300
0
Oh I'm sorry, I just looked up the way geekbench scores are constructed and it turns out that they indeed mean that if a computer has a 2 times better score, it completed the tasks two times as fast, so that's my bad.

But yeah as you said yourself, programs behave very differently on different architectures, so in real life speeds can be very different from what benchmarks may lead you to believe. However, if you look at multiple benchmarks and compare them to a known pc, you can get a general idea of how fast a computer should be.

It honestly depends what you're doing. I think for the majority of users there is no perceived difference at all.
 

fenjen

macrumors 6502
Nov 9, 2012
352
24
It honestly depends what you're doing. I think for the majority of users there is no perceived difference at all.

That's why I said "a general idea".
Tasks like opening apps are usually bottlenecked by the hard drive rather than the CPU so I get that in "real life" usage most users won't notice that much difference.
 

ppeinado

macrumors newbie
May 25, 2012
18
8
what I think is so insane is the price for speck cases for the 17in on ebay. Now that the company discontinued them they are going for almost $200 new and often $100 used. 6 months ago they were under $30 on the bay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Speck-Macbo...7?pt=US_Laptop_Cases_Bags&hash=item3a8b2fe4f5

i got a clear one back in 2011 when i got my 17in, but kinda was wanting a green one as my case was starting to scratch, but at 125-175..no way.
 

disasterdrone

macrumors 6502
Aug 31, 2013
300
0
what I think is so insane is the price for speck cases for the 17in on ebay. Now that the company discontinued them they are going for almost $200 new and often $100 used. 6 months ago they were under $30 on the bay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Speck-Macbo...7?pt=US_Laptop_Cases_Bags&hash=item3a8b2fe4f5

i got a clear one back in 2011 when i got my 17in, but kinda was wanting a green one as my case was starting to scratch, but at 125-175..no way.

It's not insane - its basic supply and demand. The price is going to go up now the supply is cut off.
 

ppeinado

macrumors newbie
May 25, 2012
18
8
It's not insane - its basic supply and demand. The price is going to go up now the supply is cut off.

yes. I am aware of basic market economics, but its good to see you were paying attention in class that day;)

It is still an outrageous price hike. Often discontinuation can have the reverse effect as well. I was able to pick up a new bookbook case from twelve south's amazon store for $40 shipped.
 

librarian

macrumors regular
Sep 24, 2011
107
3
It's just a better machine for media production compared to a rMBP: storage, ports, big screen estate (and no scaled and blurred crap for pixel precision work, less sytem resources wasted for retina UI), ability to run older OS X versions for better performance and software compatibility.
 

gavinstubbs09

macrumors 65816
Feb 17, 2013
1,386
256
NorCal boonies ~~~by Reno sorta
You know, using a dongle is better than plugging a network cable straight in. Plus, you really don't need all that storage, no one does.

Or they have no desktop or want to use external hard drives. Space is huge, if you are a magician - you may have lots of music projects for logic, DJ - you'll most likely have hundreds of gigabytes worth of music, photographer - some Photoshop PSDs take up straight up space (200MB if not more, for one project!), Video Editor - all that content you record and the projects you make with it take gigabytes at a time.

Space is a huge issue to folks like ^
 
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