Hello!
Just a question.
I have seen the discussions about "why does the MacBook Pro does not have more than 16 GB RAM" but I just why do you need more than 8 GB RAM in a MacBook Pro?
I think I've made a mistake. I have just taken delivery of a MBP 8GB.
Since this I've had a couple of friends say I should have got the 16GB. Reading the forums I see other people saying the same.
I'm in the 14 day window but have used this MBP a little.
I can send it back easily right? Plus, can someone with knowledge just please say if you really think I should buy the 16GB one. I need this for a few years and may do some gaming, web development work, image editing and music production.
These types of tests never provide the full picture. Back in the day, you'd see the exact same tests telling you 2 GB is fine. Then it was 4 GB is fine. And now 8 GB is fine.https://lifehacker.com/performance-tests-show-that-16gb-of-ram-is-overkill-1724827429
This was the article that convinced me I would be fine with 8GB. I understand it's a few years old, but most programs are going towards being more efficient and more compact, so I decided not to worry. I don't use a many big apps often, but I use many cloud applications, often run 10+ tabs on Safari and Chrome simultaneously, photos, preview, MS programs, etc, and I'm not pushing this thing at all. Maybe the user above who claimed to be using 9.2GB with his usage was using that, because it was there, but that use case doesn't require 16GB, and wouldn't have hit the wall with 8.
Development, image editing, and music production are all areas where memory can be extremely important. Or not, as it depends on your workflow. Gaming not so much usually though.I think I've made a mistake. I have just taken delivery of a MBP 8GB.
Since this I've had a couple of friends say I should have got the 16GB. Reading the forums I see other people saying the same.
I'm in the 14 day window but have used this MBP a little.
I can send it back easily right? Plus, can someone with knowledge just please say if you really think I should buy the 16GB one. I need this for a few years and may do some gaming, web development work, image editing and music production.
It may not apply on current machines as much but on older machines that memory pressure graph and memory usage table would really concern me. Once I hit that type of usage, I'd notice slowdowns and occasional beachballs even without hitting the swap or the memory pressure hitting red. I suspect part of it is due to the CPU overhead and lag from having to do memory compression.It depends entirely on what you do IMO. 8GB can do quite a bit, and the fast NVMe SSDs can somewhat offset the performance tolls incurred when the system caches to the SSD. But with certain Apps/scenarios, 16 GB yields a much smoother operating experience, and some tasks 8 will be woefully inadequate for.
This Win7 VM has been given 4GB of RAM - leaving the host OS with 4 GB for the many Apps open in the host OS. At this point, the system is still perfectly responsive and running well. However, it is pushing the outer boundary of what 8GB can do. This works well for me because I know this usage pattern will probably not change during the time I plan to keep this system.
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If I want to run a Windows 7 and a Windows 10 VM simultaneously, or use an ICR app in one of my Windows VMs, the 8GB simply isn't sufficient - but, for that matter, the rMB is not designed for this purpose and so the CPU isn't sufficient either. When I need to run both simultaneously, I do that on the 15-inch MacBook Pro with 16 GB of RAM.
Considering the lack of upgradability, how many owners keep their Apple computers for a long time, and how it is difficult to predict how usage patterns will change during this long period of ownership, I think 16 GB often makes sense - I also think it may be more justifiable if that one machine is someone's primary computer, or if the owner is dead-set on keeping that specific machine for X amount of time and is strongly opposed to upgrading the machine sooner should their usage patterns/needs change.
With that said, there are situations where one may have to pay $400-550 more to get the exact same system with 16 GB of RAM instead of 8 GB - in regards to the nTB or rMB, that's a third the price of a replacement system, and this could enable being able to upgrade the system sooner. I opted for 8 GB on my nTB because the 2.0/8/256 model was on a great sale (where as I would have had to pay $450 more for 2.0/16/256) and I knew I would not keep it as long as my other Macs - it did what I needed and less than a year later I sold it. I was able to get my 2017 rMB on a good sale in the base 1.2/8/256 configuration, which again justified going for the 8 GB option since I have a 15-inch MBP. Further, should issues of keyboard longevity arise, or should this machine wear faster because it is used as my primary mobile device, I'll be less frustrated replacing it outright as my initial investment was lower.
Probably because a lot of people who buy the 13" either have lighter needs or else have lower budgets, or both. Plus, not everyone keeps their laptops for 6 years.I don’t understand how u spend 2000 on a machine and have a bottle neck like ram. My 2011 pc had 12 gb ram. It’s 2017, 16 gb should be standard. The 15 inch has the 16gb as standard, don’t know why Thye didn’t on the 13
1900 what?So spending around 1900 after tax for a laptop, you can’t budget for an extra 150 bucks?
I have never ever upgraded the exhaust in any car, and likely never will. Car analogies pretty much always suck.It would be like me buying a bmw and after spending 80k, I cheaped out on the exhaust, didn’t want to spend an extra 2 grand.
Heh. That's the worst analogy ever.Really depends what you use it for. You'll have people say you NEED 16GB, and that their system is using 12GB doing minimal work, justifying the need. Truth is the system will use as much RAM as you give it. So same work flow on 8GB of RAM and 16GB of RAM will show different RAM usage.
If you're a professional or likely to use a lot of professional apps, then 16GB is usually a worthwhile investment. However 8GB today is in no way the same as 8GB from 5 years ago. The physical size of the RAM is in no way a limitation, speed improvements and such means it calculates the data far faster within the RAM than it did 5 years ago.
Truth is the RAM is the main bottleneck in a system, and if you can afford 16GB upgrade then it's usually worthwhile. But there's no need to convince yourself that you NEED 16GB of RAM if you're unsure if you need it. Usually, if you have to ask you don't need it.
So some situations require more than 8GB of RAM, many don't. Just because your old computer had 8GB of RAM does not mean your new one should have more. Just because your old car was 2Ltr doesn't mean the new car should be 4Ltr... Think of the RAM like a giant warehouse, same size as the old one, but the new one is filled with much faster works and robots doing all the sorting. Same size, much more efficient.
Heh. That's the worst analogy ever.
To overextend that analogy, if anything the robots get less and less efficient with each passing year, with regards to usage of space. The companies designing those robots are making them bigger and bigger every year, so that limited factory space becomes even more limited every year. The robots are doing cooler things yes, and often are doing it faster, but they need more space to work.
Put it this way, 4 GB RAM five years ago was actually quite a decent amount of RAM. Today, it's the bare minimum for basic functionality. In fact, in 2017, none of Apple's new laptops ship with anything less than 8 GB, because that is really what the minimum should be.
But what I'm saying is your analogy is very misleading. You suggest that the computers get more efficient as time goes on. Quite the contrary. Bloat increases every year. Sometimes that bloat is to support new fangled features and such, but nonetheless, that bloat puts increasing strain on the memory resources every single year. SSD speeds and OS optimization are great, but they don't solve the problem of insufficient RAM.I think you're over reading a simple analogy there... I only say it as RAM is a hugely misunderstood part of computing, which is largely because of old style marketing. 2Ghz > 1.5Ghz, 2GB > 1GB etc. Which worked fine in the older days, but now we look at efficiency. Ideally we want computers with no RAM what-so-ever, RAM is just a solution to a problem in computing that hasn't been replaced, but it's a power consumer, so the less the better from an efficiency standpoint.
Just because 8GB is the minimum Apple ship does not mean it's a minimal amount, it's the minimum that they can guarantee with provide a smooth experience for the user. Some people do need more which is why they offer it, very few people actually need more but get confused as it's a very complicated subject. Do people really look into BUS speeds, L2/3 cache sizes, SSD speeds, OS optimisation, CPU optimisation/dedicated architecture? No, they look at X > Y therefore I need X. All I'm saying is you need 8GB, it would be nice to have more but not necessary.
While I generally recommend 16GB if the money isn't too big of a deal (or obviously if usage demands it), it does kind of sound like you don't really understand how modern memory management works. Yes, the hyperbole about what it can accomplish sometimes strains credibility, but generally speaking, probably 80% of users would be perfectly fine with 8GB for at least the next several years.But what I'm saying is your analogy is very misleading. You suggest that the computers get more efficient as time goes on. Quite the contrary. Bloat increases every year. Sometimes that bloat is to support new fangled features and such, but nonetheless, that bloat puts increasing strain on the memory resources every single year. SSD speeds and OS optimization are great, but they don't solve the problem of insufficient RAM.
Yes, 8 GB is enough, but if it's enough today, it may not be enough in 4 years. Hell, these days even my anti-virus software is eating up 600 MB on a consistent basis. In the old days it would have been something like 100 MB. We're talking about increase to 6X as much memory usage in just a few years... because the software has gotten a heluvalot more complicated and does more than it used to. Consequently, not only does it use way more RAM, it also uses more CPU cycles.
Some people say some of those apps are not properly optimized, and that may be true, but that doesn't negate the fact that software does this, and it just gets worse every year. It's a fact of life.
...and then this post takes issue with my post about the benefits of 16 GB.While I generally recommend 16GB if the money isn't too big of a deal (or obviously if usage demands it), it does kind of sound like you don't really understand how modern memory management works. Yes, the hyperbole about what it can accomplish sometimes strains credibility, but generally speaking, probably 80% of users would be perfectly fine with 8GB for at least the next several years.
And actually car analogies work really, really well for computers. It's almost eerie how similar they are in the ways we can equate their history, development, construction, and usage.
16 GB could be a very smart decision for you, or it could be complete overkill. It really depends on what you need to do with it.I have to buy a MacBook Pro 13" nTB with 256GB of SSD.
The price differences between 8GB and 16GB of RAM are 200€.
MBP 13" nTB 256GB 8GB: 1600€
MBP 13" nTB 256GB 16GB: 1800€
What would you do? I think the obvious answer is the 16GB model...
The only thing that bothers me is the upcoming cannonlake CPUs in 2019. But I cannot afford waiting until then. I need a machine to last several years thoug...
Hey, I want to raise a question, and I think this thread is the most appropriate for it:
I have to buy a MacBook Pro 13" nTB with 256GB of SSD.
The price differences between 8GB and 16GB of RAM are 200€.
MBP 13" nTB 256GB 8GB: 1600€
MBP 13" nTB 256GB 16GB: 1800€
What would you do? I think the obvious answer is the 16GB model...
The only thing that bothers me is the upcoming cannonlake CPUs in 2019. But I cannot afford waiting until then. I need a machine to last several years thoug...
But what I'm saying is your analogy is very misleading. You suggest that the computers get more efficient as time goes on. Quite the contrary. Bloat increases every year. Sometimes that bloat is to support new fangled features and such, but nonetheless, that bloat puts increasing strain on the memory resources every single year. SSD speeds and OS optimization are great, but they don't solve the problem of insufficient RAM.
Yes, 8 GB is enough, but if it's enough today, it may not be enough in 4 years. Hell, these days even my anti-virus software is eating up 600 MB on a consistent basis. In the old days it would have been something like 100 MB. We're talking about increase to 6X as much memory usage in just a few years... because the software has gotten a heluvalot more complicated and does more than it used to. Consequently, not only does it use way more RAM, it also uses more CPU cycles.
Some people say some of those apps are not properly optimized, and that may be true, but that doesn't negate the fact that software does this, and it just gets worse every year. It's a fact of life.
Honestly, I really don't know what you're talking about. There is no RAM magic in 2017. The efficiency improvements are mostly in power utilzation and speed, as well as the introduction of memory compression (way back in Mavericks). But even with all of this overall, the efficiency of RAM amounts in absolute terms has gotten much, much worse over time.I'm not saying the system RAM somehow gets more efficient as time goes on... I'm saying RAM has gotten more efficient. If you get 8GB now it's not going to be amazingly different in 5 years time, I'm saying 5 years ago the technology within the CPU/RAM was different. The OS is very efficient and can run on 3GB of RAM, and the system can do a lot with modern RAM that it couldn't before. So it's really misunderstanding what RAM is to go by a logic of what you had previously as an indicator of what you should have today.
If technology had in no way advanced and you were looking at exactly the same machine as 5 years ago, then yes 8GB of RAM would not be enough. Except it isn't in anyway the same machine, and 8GB is plenty for the majority of users. Now that's not to say some people don't need more, or that some work flows can benefit from having more, but what you can do with 16GB of RAM you can also do with 8GB of RAM, it is not a physical limitation unless you physically cap it through VM use.