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SegNerd

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Feb 28, 2020
315
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I feel like a lot of people give positive or neutral reactions to the fact that third-party app stores are still not available in the US, even though they are in Europe (because the EU forced it). I don’t get it.

Third-party app stores have pluses and minuses. They allow content that wouldn’t be allowed in the App Store (which can be a good thing or a bad thing), and there may also be security concerns.

But here’s the thing: You are never forced to use third-party app stores. If you don’t feel it’s worth it, just don’t install it. All it does is put the choice in your hands instead of having Apple make it for you.

What’s wrong with giving consumers more choice?

The only argument I can think of is, “If developers can move apps to proprietary app stores, and a developer has an app you really need, that would force you to use a third-party App Store when it otherwise would have been in the original App Store.” But it seems to me that this is not how it’s playing out with developers. We all know that when Epic was given the choice of “It’s Apple’s App Store, or nothing” - they went with nothing. If developers really want you to use a third-party App Store, they can stick to their guns even if it that leaves you with no solution.
 
One App Store is easier and better for consumers.


One App Store is easier and better for Apple.


It’s only developers for whom one App Store might not be the best model.


I’m a consumer so I’m gonna look after what I want.


I will hold a grudge against developers who try and force the model to change to be better for them at my expense.
 
I feel like a lot of people give positive or neutral reactions to the fact that third-party app stores are still not available in the US, even though they are in Europe (because the EU forced it). I don’t get it.

Third-party app stores have pluses and minuses. They allow content that wouldn’t be allowed in the App Store (which can be a good thing or a bad thing), and there may also be security concerns.

But here’s the thing: You are never forced to use third-party app stores. If you don’t feel it’s worth it, just don’t install it. All it does is put the choice in your hands instead of having Apple make it for you.

What’s wrong with giving consumers more choice?

The only argument I can think of is, “If developers can move apps to proprietary app stores, and a developer has an app you really need, that would force you to use a third-party App Store when it otherwise would have been in the original App Store.” But it seems to me that this is not how it’s playing out with developers. We all know that when Epic was given the choice of “It’s Apple’s App Store, or nothing” - they went with nothing. If developers really want you to use a third-party App Store, they can stick to their guns even if it that leaves you with no solution.
I strongly agree that third-party app stores are a good thing. To name just a couple of reasons, some developers would prefer to add features Apple currently prohibits, such as the ability to purchase Amazon books directly from the Kindle app. Many apps would prefer to avoid Apple taking a very significant cut of each purchase. This model has worked brilliantly on the Mac forever, so it clearly can work.
 
Reason: Apple doesn't want the competition of third party app stores. A relatively modest amount of very easy money is at stake.

If Apple doesn't want/like something, most Apple fans don't want/like something... even if some such stuff is good for consumers (such as competition).

If Apple flipped and decided they liked third party stores (which is exactly what we all enjoy with Mac & Mac apps), the same people would flip right with Apple.

Most simply:
  • Apple like? Apple fans like.
  • Apple doesn’t like? Fans don't like.
  • Apple flip flop? Fans flip flop.
  • Something benefit Apple? Fans love.
  • Something go against Apple? Fans hate. If "something" is sometimes the SAME thing- such as patents- they are loved, working right, "protecting IP" when they work FOR Apple and detested, "system is broken" and "need to be overhauled," etc when they work against.
  • Mama likes Apple? Best Mama ever.
  • Mama doesn't like Apple? Disown Mama.
  • God likes Apple? The one true God.
  • God doesn't like Apple? False God, "religion is overrated", etc. Wait: Apple isn’t God???
  • Dog likes Apple? Man's best friend.
  • Dog doesn't like Apple? "We should've got a cat."
It's practically a universal law. Some say it is the lost 11th commandment, handed down to Moses himself (but fans disagree, because it could only be the first commandment, above all others). I think someone is trying to start a GoFundMe to drop #10, move the remaining 9 down 1 and slot it in where it belongs. ;)
 
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I feel like a lot of people give positive or neutral reactions to the fact that third-party app stores are still not available in the US, even though they are in Europe (because the EU forced it). I don’t get it.

Third-party app stores have pluses and minuses. They allow content that wouldn’t be allowed in the App Store (which can be a good thing or a bad thing), and there may also be security concerns.

But here’s the thing: You are never forced to use third-party app stores. If you don’t feel it’s worth it, just don’t install it. All it does is put the choice in your hands instead of having Apple make it for you.

What’s wrong with giving consumers more choice?

The only argument I can think of is, “If developers can move apps to proprietary app stores, and a developer has an app you really need, that would force you to use a third-party App Store when it otherwise would have been in the original App Store.” But it seems to me that this is not how it’s playing out with developers. We all know that when Epic was given the choice of “It’s Apple’s App Store, or nothing” - they went with nothing. If developers really want you to use a third-party App Store, they can stick to their guns even if it that leaves you with no solution.
I am not opposed to 3rd party app stores provided apple voluntarily opens that particular door.
 
Reason: Apple doesn't want the competition of third party app stores. A relatively modest amount of very easy money is at stake.

If Apple doesn't want/like something, most Apple fans don't want/like something... even if some such stuff is good for consumers (such as competition).

If Apple flipped and decided they liked third party stores (which is exactly what we all enjoy with Mac & Mac apps), the same people would flip right with Apple.
As a paying apple customer it is my right to weigh in on things apple. If apple voluntarily opened that particular door it would be more palatable to what you euphemistically refer to as “apple fans”.
Most simply:
  • Apple like? Apple fans like.
  • Apple doesn’t like? Fans don't like.
  • Apple flip flop? Fans flip flop.
  • Something benefit Apple? Fans love.
  • Something go against Apple? Fans hate. If "something" is sometimes the SAME thing- such as patents- they are loved, working right, "protecting IP" when they work FOR Apple and detested, "system is broken" and "need to be overhauled," etc when they work against.
  • Mama likes Apple? Best Mama ever.
  • Mama doesn't like Apple? Disown Mama.
  • God likes Apple? The one true God.
  • God doesn't like Apple? False God, "religion is overrated", etc. Wait: Apple isn’t God???
  • Dog likes Apple? Man's best friend.
  • Dog doesn't like Apple? "We should've got a cat."
The above is just hyperbole.
It's practically a universal law. Some say it is the lost 11th commandment, handed down to Moses himself (but fans disagree, because it could only be the first commandment, above all others). I think someone is trying to start a GoFundMe to drop #10, move the remaining 9 down 1 and slot it in where it belongs. ;)
Basic word salad not discussing the core topic but “apple fans” reaction. But sure I would like to hypothetically know how apple would implement 3rd party app stores. There certainly won’t be any issues with fees and commissions.
 
I feel like a lot of people give positive or neutral reactions to the fact that third-party app stores are still not available in the US, even though they are in Europe (because the EU forced it). I don’t get it.

Third-party app stores have pluses and minuses. They allow content that wouldn’t be allowed in the App Store (which can be a good thing or a bad thing), and there may also be security concerns.

But here’s the thing: You are never forced to use third-party app stores. If you don’t feel it’s worth it, just don’t install it. All it does is put the choice in your hands instead of having Apple make it for you.

What’s wrong with giving consumers more choice?

The only argument I can think of is, “If developers can move apps to proprietary app stores, and a developer has an app you really need, that would force you to use a third-party App Store when it otherwise would have been in the original App Store.” But it seems to me that this is not how it’s playing out with developers. We all know that when Epic was given the choice of “It’s Apple’s App Store, or nothing” - they went with nothing. If developers really want you to use a third-party App Store, they can stick to their guns even if it that leaves you with no solution.
Whatever happened to giving consumers the choice to not have a choice?

I feel that the closed nature of the iOS is the perfect foil to Android, and the inability to sideload means that users are not given enough rope to hang themselves with. I am not seeing how forcing iOS to become more like Android is giving users more meaningful choice, when both platforms are now more similar to each other than ever.

To your first point about users not having to sideload if they don't want to, I am sharing with you a problem that people in my country have been grappling with for a couple of years now.


I don't think these scam victims planned to get cheated of their life savings to begin with, and I am not saying that iPhone users can never get scammed, but this particular scenario would not have been possible on iOS where Apple at least gets to vet the apps they allow. Even the "scam" apps discovered on iOS do little more than trick users into signing up for pricey subscriptions, which they can easily monitor and terminate via the App Store app, and there is still the option of requesting for a refund via Apple. This is what I mean by "making a choice to not have a choice". I give up the choice of accessing apps otherwise not available in the App Store (like emulators until recently) in exchange for the peace of mind that malicious apps have a harder time finding their way onto my device.

Second, I am not happy about the manner that the EU is forcing Apple to open up their ecosystem and make it available to third parties for free. I view this as a violation of Apple's property rights. Do you think that Nintendo would be happy if the government stepped in and forced them to allow the epic games store on the Nintendo Switch? Tim Sweeney did not invest any money in developing their own hardware or OS, yet they would be able to come in and host other developers' apps and charge them a cut (while also depriving Nintendo of their cut).

I don't hold any Apple shares, and Apple's woes is really none of my business; it just rubs me the wrong way, even if I may have nothing to lose here.

You see a similar trend with Facebook being made to offer a non-tracking ad-based option for users that is also effectively unpaid, which would significantly reduce the amount of revenue they bring in from EU users. In my opinion, EU regulation has effectively neutered the ability of their own local businesses to compete and this is really just protectionism by another name.

Third, the issue with the DMA is not that it's an attack on the App Store, but that's an attack on Apple's integration, and the App Store is simply the first casualty. You have also seen how iPhone mirroring isn't available in the EU because Apple has decided it's not worth the effort to make it DMA-compliant.

The EU is forcing Apple to modularise itself and give up everything that made it unique (and successful) in the first place, and I guess I just don't see how this will end well for both Apple and end users. People see third party app stores and the ability to swap default apps and think it's all roses and rainbows from here. They just don't know what it will cost them in the long run.
 
Although I would support 3rd party app stores theoretically as a consumer I really don't like them. If I am looking for a great movie, such as "A real Pain" I have to go a website (thestreamable.com) to figure out which service streams the film (Hulu). I then have to go though the hassle of subscribing and creating an account on Hulu. The former would not happen with 3rd party app stores I assume, but the latter likely would. Then app store 1 has one app I like, then app store doesn't have app 1 but has app 2. Same thing happens when you drop cable service - it is a nightmare trying to figure out where a particular movie or tv show is streaming, and then it changes without warning.

I would rather spend my time on other things than managing, hassling and worrying about security with multiple app stores. But maybe I don't understand how they work.
 
This has been discussed ad nauseam, did you not read any of the previous threads?

Anyway:

But here’s the thing: You are never forced to use third-party app stores.

Wrong!
  • Apps that move off the Apple App stores and sign exclusivity agreements with alt-stores force users to sign up with a store they didn't want. This can happen with an app you already own.
    • This hasn't happened much to this point because alt-stores have not been regulated into existence world wide. If all of the largest markets have this mess forced on them you will begin to see the race to offer top apps exclusivity.
    • Imagine you bought Plants vs Zombies 2 from the Apple app store (yes I know its ancient), it is I believe owned by EA. EA decides to pull it from the Apple App store an go exclusively with Epic. Now if you want updates or if you need to reinstall you MUST install the Epic store and give them all your info. Then, 2 years later EA gets a better offer from Steam and moves off of the Epic store to the Steam store, now you MUST install the Steam store and give them all your info. How is this good for consumers??
Net losses for consumers:
  • The loss of a single payment processor. Instead of only Apple having payment info one could have many alt-stores or indies, as an example: Amazon, Microsoft, Meta, Steam, Epic, Google, etc. This is a numbers game and cannot be argued, the more places your payment info exists, the more likely you are to suffer from a "breach".
    • Take my Mac, I have had to sign up and give payment info to a bunch of indies, random sites, random payment processors, some of which have suffered "breaches". If the Mac App store worked the same way as the iOS store life would be grand!
  • Loss of a single update path. Right now all my apps update from the same place.
  • Loss of a single store for research between apps.
    • Say you want a word search game, right now you open the app store an type in word search game, all the games are listed in a similar fashion for easy comparison. In the alt-store world you need to try and search/compare apps in different locations or worse yet, in a browser, like the mess we have on the Mac/PC side.
    • Multiple store apps. Right now I have a single store, I don't want 10 store apps on my devices.
  • Loss of privacy scorecards. Do you really believe that the likes of Meta will offer privacy scorecards? LOL, I have a bridge to sell you on the cheap! Are the Apple cards the greatest or 100% accurate? Probably not but at least they are there and give you some information. I actively choose apps that collect less data.
  • Loss of a single point for customer service. Your 3 year old accidentally bought $X of in-app purchases, today you call Apple and have a fair chance of resolution. Have fun with this if you are calling Meta or indies.
  • Loss of a unique "one stop shop" ecosystem. Like it or not, the Apple ecosystem is unique in the marketplace. If you want more freedoms with your devices or apps then you have a place to go, the Android ecosystem. If alt-stores are forced upon us by brainless bureaucrats then those that appreciate the current ecosystem for what it is have no other alternative. The Apple ecosystem is far more friendly to those that are not tech oriented.
There are zero benefits to consumers in the alt-store model. Prices will not go down. Service will not get better. Personal data collection will only get worse. The customer experience, in my opinion, will actively suffer.

I have stated many times that I will abandon this argument if as part of the dev agreement apps must maintain a presence on the Apple app store in addition to any alt-stores. Isn't that what the alt crowd wants... more choices? Then if people want to buy via Steam instead of Apple, they can but it doesn't impact those of us that appreciate and want a "one stop shop".

What’s wrong with giving consumers more choice?

What additional choice do you think consumers will get? What will the gain to offset the losses listed above?

If one gives this situation some critical thinking, what do consumers gain if an app goes from being exclusive in the Apple app store to being exclusive in the Epic store? That is not additional choice for consumers, it is just a different master.

I will admit, and have many times, that the only benefit to alt-stores would be the addition of apps that Apple deems unseemly. Apple could easily fix this issue by having an 18+ section to the app store but for some reason they continue to clutch pearls. I am as annoyed by this as most people are but it is not a show-stopper for me. I can easily live without the PAX app or pr0nz on my iphone.
 
Although I would support 3rd party app stores theoretically as a consumer I really don't like them. If I am looking for a great movie, such as "A real Pain" I have to go a website (thestreamable.com) to figure out which service streams the film (Hulu). I then have to go though the hassle of subscribing and creating an account on Hulu. The former would not happen with 3rd party app stores I assume, but the latter likely would. Then app store 1 has one app I like, then app store doesn't have app 1 but has app 2. Same thing happens when you drop cable service - it is a nightmare trying to figure out where a particular movie or tv show is streaming, and then it changes without warning.

I would rather spend my time on other things than managing, hassling and worrying about security with multiple app stores. But maybe I don't understand how they work.

Let me offer 2 scenarios to help...

Scenanio 1: instead of renting some movie, you want to own it. What do you do now to own a movie? You might go to a single store like Amazon and pay whatever price Amazon wants for that movie. Done. Easy. One stop. Convenient. As secure as you perceive an Amazon transaction can be. Etc.

OR, you might hit- say google shopping- to quickly search MANY "stores" for the movie, discover that it costs $10 less at Target/Best Buy/Walmart/<other> and consider buying it there and saving $10. You would be forgoing Amazon store "security" for Target/Best Buy/Walmart/<other> store "security." But otherwise the transaction would feel mostly the same and the end result would be that you own the very same movie: you just paid less for it.

That's a major benefit of robust competition. Competitors compete and one of the main cards they tend to play is offering the same thing for a lower price. We see this every week with Apple "sales" from Best Buy/Walmart/etc in the "deals" posts. Compare those sale prices to the very same product offered for sale in Apple's own store at the very same point in time to see that you can actually buy the very same Apple product for less money from <not Apple>.

As a buyer, you can then choose to buy it from Apple anyway and pay the extra for it... or you can choose to buy from Best Buy/Walmart/etc and pay less for it during this sale. That's up to you... but at least you have such competitive choices.

Scenario 2: The movie you definitely want to buy is available. Your one-and-only general goto for movie purchases- let's say that's Best Buy- doesn't stock it for some reason. Turns out Best Buy has some bug to pick with the studio and is protesting by not carrying Studios movies until their business conflict is resolved. You still want the movie now... not at some potential, unknown date in the future when Best Buy and Movie studio finally settle their differences. Do without until then? Or go get it right now at Target/Walmart/Amazon/<other store>?

Again, you have a choice here. You can side with Best Buy and just deny yourself a desired movie. Or you can leave the bickering to 2 businesses and get the movie you want right now. Neither Best Buy nor the studio care if you join the protest or not as one transaction is no influence whatsoever in a much bigger picture situation.

Now bring this closer: Let's buy a Mac app...

Scenario 1: Mac App is available on the Mac App Store for- say- $20. Google shopping shows you can get the very same app from Amazon for $18. Look, a "Bundle hunt" email just hit and it's available in the various 10 or so apps you can choose and own it for $5. The app is exactly the same app. Do you want to pay $20, $18 or $5 for it? Note in that last competitive offer, not only do you get it for lowest price, but up to 9 other apps too for added value. That's ANOTHER card competition plays: added value... sometimes used when they can't offer a price any lower but they can add additional value to the same price.

Common analogy: you can buy this Apple Computer today for <same price it is at Apple.com> but if you buy it from us we'll also throw in <other stuff you won't get by buying from Apple>. If you value any of those bonuses, they might entice you to buy from them with the added value you won't get from Apple. Again, that's a commonly played card when there is competition.

When there is no competition, no need for one seller to throw in any bonuses that just costs them extra money to include.

Scenario 2: You want an app NOT available in the Mac App Store but definitely runs on Mac. Is that a "too bad" or can you just go get it from wherever it is available? The app developer likely sells it on their own website. Maybe it's offered in a broader selection of software from Target or Best Buy than what one finds in the Mac App Store? Maybe Apple is in conflict with some software developer and refuses to offer the app through Apple retail? If you want that app anyway, you have the options- the choice- to go get it right now. Buy & download it from the developer or Best Buy, etc and enjoy the app today. Let Apple and the studio work out their business differences without it denying you software you want on a computer you own. It's not still Apple's computer anymore, it's yours. And their squabble is not your squabble. They may never resolve their differences. Do you want to deny yourself until never?

The step from this very flexibility we all enjoy with our Macs now to getting the same with iDevices is a SMALL step. Both are just computers. Apps are just software. The EU has now proven that there is not evil boogeymen that are going to wreak havoc. Where are those criminal syndicates that were going to exploit this? Where is the news of iDevice trojans & viruses running rampant in the EU because of this? The law took effect nearly 1 year ago. I don't believe all that certain destruction & evil wrongdoing resulting from its implementation could be so very patient to do nothing for nearly a year.

Else, buy what is mostly nonsense and either do without or pay only 1 price- whatever the 1 seller demands for apps- and 1 price- whatever the seller demands for IAPs too. But, but, but... the developers actually set the price. Yes, they do... and they set that price to factor in the great big cut Apple takes FIRST, even before the developer gets to take a bite themselves. If there is competition competing on price, they may not demand as much of a cut and developer could then sell through them and either make more themselves as (arguably more deserving?) creators of the app or offer a lower price to make it more attractive to other buyers.

And should the ONE retailer arbitrarily decide to double all prices today, if you want apps for the device you own and they are the ONLY source of apps, you have no choice but to pay double. If Best Buy decided to charge double Apple's price for the weekly MBair offerings, odds are very high they would get ZERO sales of MBairs. Why? Because buyers can turn to other competition to get a MBair for a lower price. What works well in competitive environments is being "best price", not highest.

In any company store model, best price, highest price AND lowest price are all the same price... because there's only one source of the thing you want to buy.

Introduce competition though and that will be very likely to quickly change... as it does every single time when the one local retailer of anything in some remote town has new competition come into town. One of the easiest ways for new competitor to take some share from the long-established company store is by undercutting them on prices.

Again, look at weekly deals: Best Buy/Amazon/etc. do not have to go to the great trouble of building MBairs to sell some of them. They just undercut the makers own retail pricing of MBairs. As such, they get some share of buyers of MBairs. And their buyers get the product they want for LESS MONEY. The consumer side of capitalism is supposed to be about that: get as much as we can on EVERYTHING we buy for the money we spend. The system is broken when some of the buyers themselves are prioritizing maximizing for the seller over their own self-interest and that of their fellow consumers. Yet, watch the replies to this post and you'll see exactly that... as if some of us work for the seller and are not thinking as consumers.

Robust competition is always good for consumers. No competition is always bad for consumers.
 
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I'll start out by saying that I have mixed feelings on this - I use a Mac and an iPad but I have an Android phone - an iPhone has always been on the shortlist but has never quite made it to the top (particularly because I don't want a "flagship" phone, but in iPhone-land "mid-range/entry" usually means "last year's model, still at a hefty price"). However, one thing that tempts me to the iPhone is the security of a locked-down phone & while the Apple store is a million miles from perfect, it does feel a little less "Wild West" than the Andriod equivalents & I trust Apple a bit more than I trust Google and other tech giants (that's fairly faint praise though!) - also, forcing everybody to use Apple frameworks for things like media playback and (particularly) web browsing does reduce the "attack surface" for security vulnerabilities and prevents you having umpteen different versions of the Chromium backend installed on your phone...

OTOH I wish I could install Kodi on my AppleTV :) (please don't reply with suggestions as to how it could be done by jumping through enough flaming hoops).

To name just a couple of reasons, some developers would prefer to add features Apple currently prohibits, such as the ability to purchase Amazon books directly from the Kindle app.
Well, it kinda goes hand-in-hand with this (not your point, I acknowledge):
But here’s the thing: You are never forced to use third-party app stores. If you don’t feel it’s worth it, just don’t install it. All it does is put the choice in your hands instead of having Apple make it for you.

So, say Amazon make their own App Store with Kindle, Audible, Prime Music/Video/Etc apps in so they can sell you media without paying a tithe to Apple. Amazon now have no incentive to put a read-only Kindle App in the Apple App Store. If you wanted to use the Kindle or Audible Apps, you'd have to enable the Amazon App Store.

Or, maybe, you needed MS Authenticator to log into a secure website - that's often "Hobsons Choice" unless you want to change bank/financial adviser/employer. Now, that's free to use & AFAIK Apple Store compliant but... if MS moved it (or any of their well-known products) to their own Microsoft App Store then they'd have a captive market to sell their other products.

Ok, that's just the "free market" red in tooth and claw for you - but so much for the "it's your choice to enable third-party app stores" argument. As usual, for most people it's only the illusion of choice - you'll end up either relenting or suffering significant inconvenience.

Now, to counter my own argument, Android has always had multiple App stores and this sort of fragmentation hasn't happened - the Play store still seems to dominate. But then the Play store is somewhat more permissive than Apple's - in fact the big debate there has been that 3rd party phone manufacturers want the Play Store so much that Google had been forcing them to bundle the other Google apps with it - and Google is an advertising/data-gathering company whereas Apple is a products & services company so the underlying economics of the Play Store and Google Pay are somewhat different to the Apple Store.

This model has worked brilliantly on the Mac forever, so it clearly can work.

Not really "forever" - for years the only way of buying/installing software on a Mac or PC was to obtain physical discs or downloadable installers individual applications from their publishers or distributors (what is now called "sideloading" and is not the same as individual app stores). The Mac App Store is relatively recent and has never been the only way of installing Mac software. Also, you've always been able to pop up a terminal and write your own code which pretty much undermines any "lockdown". It might actually make sense for a non-tech-savvy user to stay in "App store only" mode & run from a non-admin account, but making that compulsory would be a major upheaval for Mac.
 
The EU is forcing Apple to modularise itself and give up everything that made it unique (and successful) in the first place,
Before singling out the EU:



...and if DMA-like rules, or US anti-trust rules had been applied to Microsoft and Intel during the 90s (or certain US anti-trust rulings hadn't been brushed aside) then Apple could have been even more successful instead of nearly going bust.
 
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I like the comfort and safety of knowing the one ap store I get content from is curated to not be harmful or malicious. I can rest assured it has at least decent utility and has my best interests at heart. 3rd party App Stores might look like the Apple App Store and trick users into a false sense of security. I don't want crypto farming apps, ones that sell my data, etc. With one point of acquisition I am all but guaranteed to have a good experience.
 
Some folks are incorrectly mapping "third party App Stores" onto "iPhone is now less secure"

(completely untrue)

But there also are others who defend Apple so voraciously that they simply don't want anything to happen that Apple doesn't want.

It's bizarre to me to not be for "more consumer choice"
 
I like the comfort and safety of knowing the one ap store I get content from is curated to not be harmful or malicious. I can rest assured it has at least decent utility and has my best interests at heart. 3rd party App Stores might look like the Apple App Store and trick users into a false sense of security. I don't want crypto farming apps, ones that sell my data, etc. With one point of acquisition I am all but guaranteed to have a good experience.

All well and good!
You don't have to use 3rd party app stores

Being against them at all -- even for others -- is the part I don't get

We do this all day long on Macs (install software from wherever we choose) and things are just fine
 
If Apple doesn't want/like something, most Apple fans don't want/like something

But there also are others who defend Apple so voraciously that they simply don't want anything to happen that Apple doesn't want.

These are gross generalizations, veiled insults and attempts to negate the valid opinions of others. All of post #5 is as insulting as calling people "fanboys".

I do not remember seeing a single post, in this thread or the others on the topic of alt-stores, that is as simple minded as you imply.
 
But here’s the thing: You are never forced to use third-party app stores. If you don’t feel it’s worth it, just don’t install it. All it does is put the choice in your hands instead of having Apple make it for you.
This is where it goes wrong. You will be forced to use third party app stores. When different apps start getting exclusive deals with different stores.

You’re gong to need different stores for different apps. I can’t remember the app recently, maybe the emulator that was in the news. It was App Store world wide but the EU it was in it’s own App Store.

So EU customers were forced to use multiple app stores. The issue will get worse.

Best analogy I can think of is streaming services. You can’t just have 1 streaming service for choice. They all have different exclusives and you need to have or use multiple to get each thing.
 
This is where it goes wrong. You will be forced to use third party app stores. When different apps start getting exclusive deals with different stores.

People say this, but it hasn't been true on Android at all

What more likely happens is that Apple is forced to compete on terms on their App Store in order to retain the business from large influential Apps

That's a GOOD THING!!
 
Does this emoji ;) not mean wink?

Do people who see someone wink after telling a joke not get that it's a joke?

I thought this ;) means wink. And I'm definitely not using it to flirt. ;) (that's also a joke).

If I have misjudged your take on the matter I apologize, but I don't think I did. Most people don't write a wall of text joke. I took your post as, what I still believe it is, basically crapping on anyone who offers an opposing opinion to alt-stores. Placing a wink at the end of a wall of text doesn't really cancel out all you wrote.

People say this, but it hasn't been true on Android at all

I have addressed this many times. Why would the likes of, say Steam, spend the resources to build a mobile app store for only a portion of the market? Android, while the world-wide marketshare leader (approx 70/30), does not have the lead in dollars spent in its app store.


iOS users may be fewer in number but they spend way more. I wouldn't spend the resources to build a mobile app store until I could service the iOS customers as well.

If we have alt-stores forced upon us world-wide then, and only then, will the likes of Amazon, Steam, Epic, Meta, Microsoft and others build out their mobile stores and begin to compete for exclusive distribution rights. Stores are only as good as their products and exclusivity drives traffic, user dollars and user data.
 
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People say this, but it hasn't been true on Android at all

What more likely happens is that Apple is forced to compete on terms on their App Store in order to retain the business from large influential Apps

That's a GOOD THING!!
Except in the region where alternative stores are available. This is what’s already happening. What happens on android is irrelevant
 
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