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What exactly is wrong with a consumer valuing convenience? I will gladly pay a reasonable premium for convenience.
  • I pay airlines for extra legroom and seats closest to the exit.
  • I pay for UberXL instead of trying to cram myself into the back of a Prius.
  • If I am really busy with work or life, I will pay for my groceries to be delivered.
  • I pay Amazon for 2 day shipping so that I don't have to wait.
  • If I receive 2 quotes for work and one is slightly more but can be done on my timetable I will probably pay it versus a less expensive quote that cannot be completed in my window.
I also am more than happy to pay an "Apple Tax", if you will, so that I do not need to give my personal and payment information to 10-50 app devs.

If you are so desperate for alt-stores or side-loading there is an option for you. How much do you value that option?
So you and everyone else don’t see the problem with infinite convenience for the price of their rights and on the back of their and others environments. Cool.
So maybe I should rephrase my original comment and say the endless craving of consumers for convenience is to blame fir so many things wrong in the world.
According to your comment, you wouldn’t have a problem with sht shipping Temu and the like.
 
So you and everyone else don’t see the problem with infinite convenience for the price of their rights and on the back of their and others environments. Cool.
So maybe I should rephrase my original comment and say the endless craving of consumers for convenience is to blame fir so many things wrong in the world.
According to your comment, you wouldn’t have a problem with sht shipping Temu and the like.

I don't see anything in your post that relates to the topic of alt-stores and why one would oppose them. Cool.
 
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I don't see anything in your post that relates to the topic of alt-stores and why one would oppose them. Cool.
It’s not my problem you might have felt personally attacked.
I think it’s rich to assume I must be desperate for more app stores, because despite living in Europe I wouldn’t even know how to use an alternative store, and I don’t care to. I don’t need new apps and the ones I might want to use I already have in my App Store library or they are generally available in the App Store. I really don’t care about alt stores for myself, but I do recognize that other people might benefit greatly from them. Excluding you. But that’s fine.
What I took issue with were your statements about how you apparently value your convenience despite its potential impact for other people. You paying for 2 day shipping has what to do with alt-stores?
If you don’t understand the problem with my original statement, how it relates to this debate and rl markets and consumer behavior, that’s not my problem.
 
It’s not my problem you might have felt personally attacked.
I think it’s rich to assume I must be desperate for more app stores, because despite living in Europe I wouldn’t even know how to use an alternative store, and I don’t care to. I don’t need new apps and the ones I might want to use I already have in my App Store library or they are generally available in the App Store. I really don’t care about alt stores for myself, but I do recognize that other people might benefit greatly from them. Excluding you. But that’s fine.
What I took issue with were your statements about how you apparently value your convenience despite its potential impact for other people. You paying for 2 day shipping has what to do with alt-stores?
If you don’t understand the problem with my original statement, how it relates to this debate and rl markets and consumer behavior, that’s not my problem.
Those of us could say the same thing about those preferring third party stores - they’re putting their preferences over the preferences of those who don’t want change, including the people who make they platform (who are the people who should get to decide how that platform operates.)

Why are people cheering on the EU bureaucrats coming in and forcing Apple to change the way it operates against Apple’s desires and the desires of most of its customers, particularly when the platform with 75% marketshare in the EU allows third party stores? Why do they get their preference to use iOS with third party stores leaving those who want a one store model with no platform that meets their preferences? Why can’t they just use Android if third party stores are that important to them?
 
It’s not my problem you might have felt personally attacked.

I did not feel "attacked" at all, I have no idea what you are going on about.

but I do recognize that other people might benefit greatly from them

Interesting, please indicate how others might "greatly" benefit from alt-stores. Be specific.

I look forward to your insights, even thought you "wouldn’t even know how to use an alternative store, and I don’t care to". Odd that you are here posting about alt-stores if you "wouldn’t even know how to use an alternative store, and I don’t care to". Cool 🤔

What I took issue with were your statements about how you apparently value your convenience despite its potential impact for other people.

My convenience does not impact anyone. It is exactly the opposite, alt-stores will greatly impact my current user experience, have you read any of this thread?

Remember, I bought into the Apple ecosystem, eyes open, and value the differences it provides.

If you had read any of my posts I you would know that I stated that I couldn't care less about alt-stores as long as all apps remain in the Apple store as part of the dev agreement. I am very willing to compromise in this situation, the pro-alt store folks generally aren't.

If you don’t understand the problem with my original statement

It is you who clearly did not read my posts thoroughly, or comprehend them. Cool. :cool:
 
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I used to be against a lot of this, but now I’m starting to realize without at least side loading or the option to side load big tech companies can say no you don’t need that app and there’s nothing you can do about it.

I was annoyed by the whole vaping ban but I don’t vape so it doesn’t affect me. Now they decided to band TikTok, even though the app has been allowed back. Yes there may be some legal protections that their lawyers are advising them on and I’m not trying to get into a political conversation, especially in a non-political form, but the fact remains that ultimately Tim Cook made a decision not to allow an app. At this point customers don’t have a choice but to go along with Tim Cook’s decision.

I think there should be an option where customers can say no I understand the risk, but I want this app. Like I’m a grown adult and know vaping is bad for me, but I still want the app.

The only good thing is Apple can’t access your device or at least I don’t think they can remotely remove apps. Like the famous cases with Amazon removing books from Kindle devices.
 
I used to be against a lot of this, but now I’m starting to realize without at least side loading or the option to side load big tech companies can say no you don’t need that app and there’s nothing you can do about it.

I was annoyed by the whole vaping ban but I don’t vape so it doesn’t affect me. Now they decided to band TikTok, even though the app has been allowed back. Yes there may be some legal protections that their lawyers are advising them on and I’m not trying to get into a political conversation, especially in a non-political form, but the fact remains that ultimately Tim Cook made a decision not to allow an app. At this point customers don’t have a choice but to go along with Tim Cook’s decision.
Tim Cook didn’t make a decision - it’s literally United States law - they can’t offer it for download, at risk of $5,000 every single time it is downloaded or updated.

Now you can argue the fact that countries can pass laws like that should lead to Apple allowing side loading, but let’s not argue that Tim Cook is blocking TikTok because he doesn’t like it.

I think there should be an option where customers can say no I understand the risk, but I want this app. Like I’m a grown adult and know vaping is bad for me, but I still want the app.
There is, it’s called Android.

The only good thing is Apple can’t access your device or at least I don’t think they can remotely remove apps. Like the famous cases with Amazon removing books from Kindle devices.
Actually they can remotely kill an app; I believe they’ve done it a couple of times for malware that snuck through app review, but not positive about that.

 
Tim Cook didn’t make a decision - it’s literally United States law - they can’t offer it for download, at risk of $5,000 every single time it is downloaded or updated.
Someone at Apple made the decision. At least for right now the App Store isn’t run by AI so it doesn’t make decisions on its own. Without getting into the politics of the situation, Apple could have temporarily allowed it back on the App Store. Yes I’m sure there is some legal risk to that and perhaps they took that in the consideration. My main concern was I got it. Apple needs to protect themselves legally, but customer should have a choice to say that’s fine. I will go get the app somewhere else if you’re not allowed to or don’t want to supply me the app. A more clear example was the vaping apps that I mentioned. That was a decision clearly by Tim Cook or someone at Apple.


Now you can argue the fact that countries can pass laws like that should lead to Apple allowing side loading, but let’s not argue that Tim Cook is blocking TikTok because he doesn’t like it.
Tim Cook is not allowing it because he made a decision based on what he thought was the best thing to do. Just like TikTok is allowing their customers in the USA to use their service based on what they think is the best thing to do. In the end yes it is Tim Cook or someone at Apple that makes this decision.


There is, it’s called Android.
No, I know us Apple people like to say if you don’t like it then you’re holding it wrong but that’s not the reality. You could say that about any brand and their policies. Yes clearly if that’s the only choice you have go to another brand but that doesn’t mean you can’t say something should change with that brand. For example, if I don’t like Toyota selling my data to data brokers, one could say well too bad don’t buy a Toyota or we could say perhaps Toyota shouldn’t do that. I understand both sides of the side loading argument because I was strongly against it but now I’m not strongly supporting it, but I am moderately supporting it. I can see the positives to side loading. I also see some negatives.



Actually they can remotely kill an app; I believe they’ve done it a couple of times for malware that snuck through app review, but not positive about that.

That would be interesting and a little bit scary. I can see doing it malware but what happens if they just decide they don’t like an app. I’m pretty sure they can legally just delete it from your phone if they have the capability.
 
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