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Why does Apple *do* this?

zorinlynx

zorinlynx

macrumors G3
Original poster
May 31, 2007
8,452
19,308
Florida, USA
Apple has the bad habit of completely discontinuing a previous operating system the instant a new major version comes out.

The problem with this is new operating systems have bugs and incompatibilities, and these bugs mean that people who depend on these machines for a living cannot upgrade to the new release right away. For existing machines this is fine, but it basically places a complete halt on the ability to buy new Macs until the issues are worked out, because the new Macs come with the new version and you CANNOT downgrade.

Microsoft has always allowed us to purchase and install previous versions of Windows; why can't Apple provide a way to downgrade to a previous release for *at least* a few months after a new OS comes out, so that those who have business operations depending on the previous version can still buy new hardware?

They did the same thing with Final Cut, and THANKFULLY relented when enough people complained and allowed them to buy the previous version again.

It's just one of my pet peeves, and I was wondering if anyone else shares it.
 
zorinlynx said:
They did the same thing with Final Cut, and THANKFULLY relented when enough people complained and allowed them to buy the previous version again.
Click to expand...
Where I work, it's not an issue for us. We typically know "generally" when a new OS is coming out with enough advance notice and work our hardware purchases around that.

The situation you describe can definitely be a headache, but if you look around at the number of people complaining, it doesn't seem to causing even a fraction of the noise that the Final Cut situation caused.

My guess is that Apple does it because it saves them a not inconsiderable amount of work, and it doesn't affect a lot of people.

It's been my experience installing older Windows versions on new hardware, that after the initial install, the system isn't usually 100% "ready to go" (i.e. be given to a user). Frequently you end up with a ton of "?"s in Device Manager that require you to go out and manually find/install the proper drivers. I'm glad that's an option for people needing to do that, but it's nowhere near the experience of an Apple OS install.
 
ceej said:
You can download an older OS for Windows or Mac like anything else. The new models just naturally come with it.
Click to expand...
The new Airs and mini that come with Lion won't run Snow Leopard (without hacking it).
 
ceej said:
Ah, power of the parenthesis.
Click to expand...
Snow Leopard does not really work well (i.e. severely limited in performance on the Mac mini) or usable (no picture on the MacBook Air) on these models.

Definitely not an option for anybody doing serious work on these machines.
 
aristobrat said:
The new Airs and mini that come with Lion won't run Snow Leopard (without hacking it).
Click to expand...

Surely you could simply install Snow Leopard onto an external drive, use Disk Utility on Snow Leopard to format the drive of the Air or Mini, then run the Snow Leopard installer and point it to the now blank internal drive?

That's how I went from Snow Leopard to Lion and retained an install of Snow Leopard just in case, albeit on my iMac.
 
WeegieMac said:
Surely you could simply install Snow Leopard onto an external drive, use Disk Utility on Snow Leopard to format the drive of the Air or Mini, then run the Snow Leopard installer and point it to the now blank internal drive?
Click to expand...

The drivers for the new models simply aren't contained in any version of 10.6.
 
I can't see how it's such a great idea to shut out buyers of new hardware from a previous OS. Too much stuff is broken or missing from Lion at the moment for professionals in certain fields, Apple should at least give customers who support them by purchasing hardware a fallback in case of incompatibilities.
 
dejo said:
Completely discontinuing? So, there'll be no more updates to 10.6?
Click to expand...
If the past is an indication, Snow Leopard will only be supported with security updates from now on (or soon).

Though there have been recent rumors of 10.6.9 adding support for iCloud to Snow Leopard.

...which seems quite reasonable, as Apple is known to frequently make exceptions to their "no backwards compatibility" policy when trying to keep customers in their eco-system. Especially when they anticipate many customers might purchase lower-value items while not yet being ready or willing to replace their higher-value main machine.

Gomff said:
I can't see how it's such a great idea to shut out buyers of new hardware from a previous OS
Click to expand...
Backwards compatibility comes at a price. It increases the number of hardware-software combinations and the time the old OS has to be supported, which makes developing, testing and supporting more laborious and, in the end, more costly. It also ties up resources which might be better spent elsewhere.

Gomff said:
Too much stuff is broken or missing from Lion at the moment for professionals in certain fields
Click to expand...
Don't you think the impression that "things are "broken" is something that Apple would want to avoid at all costs?
By giving these "fallback" solutions they would acknowledge the problem themselves.
 
Last edited:
zorinlynx said:
Apple has the bad habit of completely discontinuing a previous operating system the instant a new major version comes out.

....
Click to expand...
You are thinking like a Windows user. Many Windows-based businesses will not move its mission-critical systems to the current version of Windows on a bet. This is a huge headache of long standing for Microsoft.

Assertions to the contrary notwithstanding, new versions of MacOS X are not the buggy mess that new versions of Windows are. This Mac user of 22 years has no compunction about buying and installing new versions of MacOS/MacOS X.
 
MisterMe said:
You are thinking like a Windows user. Many Windows-based businesses will not move its mission-critical systems to the current version of Windows on a bet. This is a huge headache of long standing for Microsoft.

Assertions to the contrary notwithstanding, new versions of MacOS X are not the buggy mess that new versions of Windows are. This Mac user of 22 years has no compunction about buying and installing new versions of MacOS/MacOS X.
Click to expand...

We get it, that you love to trash windows.

I wonder why the wide majority of businesses run on windows so successfully?

I've yet to have any of the problems you cite.

My preference for OS X has nothing to do with windows.

I love choices :)
 
AppliedMicro said:
Don't you think the impression that "things are "broken" is something that Apple would want to avoid at all costs?
By giving these "fallback" solutions they would acknowledge the problem themselves.
Click to expand...

So are you saying that instead they should just replace something that worked with something that doesn't?
 
MisterMe said:
You are thinking like a Windows user. Many Windows-based businesses will not move its mission-critical systems to the current version of Windows on a bet. This is a huge headache of long standing for Microsoft.
Click to expand...

The main reason large corporations delay migration to a new version of windows are cost based, specifically relating to IT staff and training. Conversely, can you name any mission critical systems that currently run on OSX and better yet, which have already migrated to Lion?

MisterMe said:
Assertions to the contrary notwithstanding, new versions of MacOS X are not the buggy mess that new versions of Windows are. This Mac user of 22 years has no compunction about buying and installing new versions of MacOS/MacOS X.
Click to expand...

May I ask about which version of Windows you're referring to? Also, is your lack of caution in upgrading to Lion based on mundane usage & buying stuff from the app store, which I'll agree Lion handles competently? I ask because there's been quite a lot of unrest from professionals in the video and graphics industries who seem to be having less luck than you.

Assertions to the contrary notwithstanding, I'm guessing that being a Mac user of 22 years must mean you're pretty dug in when it comes to your opinions of alternative operating systems.....Or, are you just thinking like a Mac user ;)
 
zorinlynx said:
Apple has the bad habit of completely discontinuing a previous operating system the instant a new major version comes out.
Click to expand...

As evidenced by 10.5.8 coming out some time after Snow Leopard (10.6) was released? Or the significant rumors that Snow Leopard will be getting iCloud support in a 10.6.9 release? Or the fact that until Lion was released, Leopard was continuing to get security updates, even though it's nearly 5 years old?

I think claiming that Apple is "completely discontinuing a previous operating system the instant a new major version comes out" is a gross exaggeration. They may quickly cease development on older OSs, but they certainly don't completely discontinue it.

BTW, you can still buy Snow Leopard on the Apple Store online.
 
At work we still use Windows XP, even on new systems. And we aren't alone. We can do this because Microsoft and the major hardware vendors cater to businesses.

Apple's treatment of businesses (cutting off old software and not showing product roadmaps) is why many companies won't touch Apple computers or will limit them to just the "creatives" that demand them.
 
Gomff said:
So are you saying that instead they should just replace something that worked with something that doesn't?
Click to expand...

Seriously? Every system has had bugs through their final updates. Do some basic homework.

----------
talmy said:
At work we still use Windows XP, even on new systems. And we aren't alone. We can do this because Microsoft and the major hardware vendors cater to businesses.

Apple's treatment of businesses (cutting off old software and not showing product roadmaps) is why many companies won't touch Apple computers or will limit them to just the "creatives" that demand them.
Click to expand...

Windows is so much more "sit in a cubicle and type without fantastic distractions and windows (no pun) of opportunity" though, haha.
 
Gomff said:
...

May I ask about which version of Windows you're referring to? Also, is your lack of caution in upgrading to Lion based on mundane usage & buying stuff from the app store, which I'll agree Lion handles competently? ...
Click to expand...
Mundane usage? The conceit of the Windows user, somehow your experience with Microsoft's POS gives you a leg up in computer knowledge. I may have been a Mac user for 22 years and an owner for 21. However, my computer experience predates the Macintosh by more than a decade.
 
"Apple has the bad habit of completely discontinuing a previous operating system the instant a new major version comes out."

If Apple let people use SL instead of Lion on new machines, they'd never have the upgrade path they have now. They force their users to upgrade on new computers because they know they will bend over and take it.
 
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dude
your getting a dell
 
I wholeheartedly agree with OP. What's the harm?

I really don't think I'm ever going to upgrade to Lion on my 2010 13"

maybe next Apple computer I get, I'll have Lion but with no other choice...

except maybe I will look into other options at that point. It's still OS X but it just seems unnecessary. And buggy more importantly. I would probably mind less when it's more stable and less beach ball-y and bloated, etc etc

People will vote with their wallets if it remains iffy.
 
MisterMe said:
Mundane usage? The conceit of the Windows user[...]
Click to expand...

Wow dude. Mundane means every day normality, it's not a detrimental term in this case. At least, that's how I read it... I didn't even think of the meaning you gave it until this post.

Using your Mac for web browsing, email, word processing, etc would fall under mundane usage. That doesn't mean it's bad to use it for those things, just mundane.

Maybe it was meant as a criticism, but it didn't appear that way to me.
 
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