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Snow Leopard does not really work well (i.e. severely limited in performance on the Mac mini) or usable (no picture on the MacBook Air) on these models.

Definitely not an option for anybody doing serious work on these machines.

Serious work on these machines?:eek: They are just glorified toys and nothing else how can you do serious work on anything with a 250 GB flash drive and 2 usb ports? There is a reason they were dubbed Crap Book Air.:cool:

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I can't see how it's such a great idea to shut out buyers of new hardware from a previous OS. Too much stuff is broken or missing from Lion at the moment for professionals in certain fields, Apple should at least give customers who support them by purchasing hardware a fallback in case of incompatibilities.

It falls to you the buyer to make sure that all your hardware and software is compatible with the new OS before upgrading to it. You should at least have a back up done in time machine first so that if you do have problems you can erase and then migrate everything back to the old OS. common sense would dictate this. ;)

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Conversely, can you name any mission critical systems that currently run on OSX and better yet, which have already migrated to Lion?

UMMM how about all Apples support servers? Mission critical enough for you??? Just asking.
 
So are you saying that instead they should just replace something that worked with something that doesn't?
I'm not saying they should.
They Mac mini and the MacBook Air are my favorite Macs.
I wish I could get them with SL more than anybody.
But Apple isn't going to do this.


Serious work on these machines?
They are just glorified toys and nothing else how can you do serious work on anything with a 250 GB flash drive and 2 usb ports? There is a reason they were dubbed Crap Book Air
Serious work != serious performance and/or connectivity needed.
And yes, I do think the MacBook Air is a great computer.
It's my main machine for work and studies.
 
Mundane usage? The conceit of the Windows user, somehow your experience with Microsoft's POS gives you a leg up in computer knowledge. I may have been a Mac user for 22 years and an owner for 21. However, my computer experience predates the Macintosh by more than a decade.

You're talking about "The Windows User" as if they are a sub species.....that's a little conceited don't you think? There are 4 Macs in our house, 3 of which are mine.....Sorry not to fit your stereotype.

What on Earth does owning a Mac for 21 years have to do with what you use it for? My first Mac was bought in 1987 when I studied design....So what's your point exactly? Is this a p1**ing contest? Do you realise you're just coming across like an immature Apple attack dog?
 
Seriously? Every system has had bugs through their final updates. Do some basic homework.

So if I want a new Mac, and I use software which is currently dysfunctional or broken in Lion but works perfectly well on Snow Leopard, what should I do?

There is no choice available to me because Apple has deliberately taken that away. You have to ask yourself why Apple would do that if Lion is so great.....Surely people would choose it over Snow Leopard if it was better. Yet time and time again many professionals are expressing concerns over quality and functionality in Apple software these days.

And I don't really understand what homework I could possibly do that would be relevant to the subject in this thread....But since you've admitted that Lion does have bugs, what possible reason could you have for defending Apple's forcing an upgrade on new Mac users?
 
So if I want a new Mac, and I use software which is currently dysfunctional or broken in Lion but works perfectly well on Snow Leopard, what should I do?

There is no choice available to me because Apple has deliberately taken that away. You have to ask yourself why Apple would do that if Lion is so great.....Surely people would choose it over Snow Leopard if it was better. Yet time and time again many professionals are expressing concerns over quality and functionality in Apple software these days.

And I don't really understand what homework I could possibly do that would be relevant to the subject in this thread....But since you've admitted that Lion does have bugs, what possible reason could you have for defending Apple's forcing an upgrade on new Mac users?

I don't have a single bug, and neither does my boyfriend or two of my coworkers, of the people that I know who use it. So, I love Lion and fully defend it.
 
Seriously? Every system has had bugs through their final updates. Do some basic homework.



I don't have a single bug, and neither does my boyfriend or two of my coworkers, of the people that I know who use it. So, I love Lion and fully defend it.

Thanks for replying to all my points.

Oh, wait.....
 
Apple has the bad habit of completely discontinuing a previous operating system the instant a new major version comes out.
Not entirely true but I understand your point. SL's due for an update for iCloud support all while Lion has made its debut, there's been several updates to SL such as RAW file format support for dcams, iTunes and more since Lion's release.

The problem with this is new operating systems have bugs and incompatibilities, and these bugs mean that people who depend on these machines for a living cannot upgrade to the new release right away. For existing machines this is fine, but it basically places a complete halt on the ability to buy new Macs until the issues are worked out, because the new Macs come with the new version and you CANNOT downgrade.
All OS's not just OS X has bugs, no OS in the history of software has ever been bug-free upon public release.

What matters more is communication, development, support and ongoing sustainment between the manufacturer (Apple) and their end-users. Microsoft for example has an alarmingly huge development community filled with professionals and others alike and there's very good communication flow between MS and its users. The MS KB is a good example of this for the general public, Technet is a great resource for professionals, etc.

Apple on the other hand has a rather large disconnect between its users, developers and themselves, often times people are left in the dark without any hint or word on anything from Apple and end-users are often times left to support other end-users with little to no backing from Apple themselves.

Microsoft has always allowed us to purchase and install previous versions of Windows; why can't Apple provide a way to downgrade to a previous release for *at least* a few months after a new OS comes out, so that those who have business operations depending on the previous version can still buy new hardware?

No company intentionally releases a product for the intent of allowing their users to downgrade.

However I'm under the impression that a good part of that has to do with the differences between MS and Apple. MS is most notably a software company, Apple is more hardware centric which involves unique proprietary software. When you think about Apple, you think iPod, iPhone, iPad, iOS, Mac(intosh), nearly all of which are devices. When you think Microsoft, you think Windows, Server, Office, Internet Explorer, ActiveX/DirectX, etc. The way how each company's support system is structured to support their products are different.

IMO it seems that Apple's current focus is more biased towards their iPhone and iPad development and their attention on computers (and OS) has slumped quite a bit. In the "old days", a product like FCPX would've never made it out and Lion being as buggy if not worse than SL's debut is quite an embarrassment considering Apple has complete control over testing the OS with their own machines. They don't have to worry about whether Lion will run properly on an AMD platform, an MSI motherboard, a VIA based chipset, etc.

They did the same thing with Final Cut, and THANKFULLY relented when enough people complained and allowed them to buy the previous version again.
Apple has gone through a string of really bad decisions and bad products recently and I agree that it's good to know that this is, in its own way, admission that they screwed up.

50% of the professional video production industry in the USA alone uses FCP and pissing them off was not a good way to show dedication towards their users, hence Apple's decision to offer refunds and put FCP back on sale.
 
Apple has the bad habit of completely discontinuing a previous operating system the instant a new major version comes out.

The problem with this is new operating systems have bugs and incompatibilities, and these bugs mean that people who depend on these machines for a living cannot upgrade to the new release right away. For existing machines this is fine, but it basically places a complete halt on the ability to buy new Macs until the issues are worked out, because the new Macs come with the new version and you CANNOT downgrade.

Microsoft has always allowed us to purchase and install previous versions of Windows; why can't Apple provide a way to downgrade to a previous release for *at least* a few months after a new OS comes out, so that those who have business operations depending on the previous version can still buy new hardware?

They did the same thing with Final Cut, and THANKFULLY relented when enough people complained and allowed them to buy the previous version again.

It's just one of my pet peeves, and I was wondering if anyone else shares it.

I agree completely I'm not sure why Apple doesn't extend support instead of dropping it, but i guess it might be because they want to give a good experience on all platforms, and supporting older hardware might compromise OS performance..
 
cause when something is newer better faster more powerful and easier to use most people embrace, others not so much (hint)
 
Apple has historically supported old systems for years.
That recently some iProducts are no longer compatible with new OS or that new OS need specific hardware is another history.
I have a late 2008 MBP and it runs Lion fine, so my obsolete 3 years old Mac is still rocking and I can run any OS I want: Mac OS, OS X and Windows.
Leopard, Snow Leopard and Lion.
With the new machines you have the alternative to use virtual machines.
Why all these non sense?
If you want old things you have to make your mind and decide if you want to keep using old stuff (hardware and software) or you want to move onto the current "new" stuff or tweak them to adjust them to fulfill your needs.

Decisions like I want FireWire or I need Thunderbolt, and processor i7? Are those the real needs you have or the software and it's performance is what really matters?

Real Mac users know better than all this non-sense complaining.

In the 80s the Macs were the Best PCs out there and lasted for years.
Nowadays they still rock!
 
Serious work on these machines?:eek: They are just glorified toys and nothing else how can you do serious work on anything with a 250 GB flash drive and 2 usb ports?

You seem to think that there is something detrimental about having a storage drive that is far faster with no moving parts. Is a slower drive with moving parts better somehow?

Also, you left out Thunderbolt, which is likely faster than anything you have on your computer unless you have FiberChannel. If your serious work involves lots of word processing and internet usage, then I would say a MBA works just fine for serious work. Maybe even excels at it.

If your serious work involves lots of computational power, then you wouldn't even be considering a MBA (or likely even a laptop) so it's not applicable. The MBA is great for its target audience. Just like anything else, it falls short outside its target audience.
 
I'm not saying they should.
They Mac mini and the MacBook Air are my favorite Macs.
I wish I could get them with SL more than anybody.
But Apple isn't going to do this.



Serious work != serious performance and/or connectivity needed.
And yes, I do think the MacBook Air is a great computer.
It's my main machine for work and studies.

This hardly qualifies as a SERIOUS business use.
 
Non-serious business use is accessing MacRumors on company time. And playing games.

Serious business use is just about everything else.
 
Non-serious business use is accessing MacRumors on company time. And playing games.

Serious business use is just about everything else.

Today is Labor Day in the US.

MacRumors employees as well as the advertisers do serious business in MacRumors.
Some serious business people find good tech support and help in this forum.

Based on your definition, watching porn is serious business.
 
Just bought a new iMac, unfortunately with Lion installed. Took about an extra 10 minutes of reformatting the drive, then successfully installed Snow Leopard.

on the mac mini I've seen reports of snow leopard having only 30% of the performance that lion has so downgrading is not always an option....
 
Serious work on these machines?:eek: They are just glorified toys and nothing else how can you do serious work on anything with a 250 GB flash drive and 2 usb ports? There is a reason they were dubbed Crap Book Air.:cool:

When was the last time you looked at MacBook Air specs? 1997? :rolleyes:

Whoever did the dubbing needs some education, as they are seriously misguided.
 
You're talking about "The Windows User" as if they are a sub species.....that's a little conceited don't you think? There are 4 Macs in our house, 3 of which are mine.....Sorry not to fit your stereotype.

...
My views of Windows users reflects my experience with them. As a Mac user in a Windows-oriented firm, I deal with them and their work product everyday. The fact that you own three Macs does not impress me. As for the stereotype--if it's true, then it isn't a stereotype.
 
You are thinking like a Windows user. Many Windows-based businesses will not move its mission-critical systems to the current version of Windows on a bet. This is a huge headache of long standing for Microsoft.

Assertions to the contrary notwithstanding, new versions of MacOS X are not the buggy mess that new versions of Windows are. This Mac user of 22 years has no compunction about buying and installing new versions of MacOS/MacOS X.

LOL!!! Stereotypes are so much fun. You dont even want to talk about an "Apple user"... :rolleyes:

The reluctance to move is more of a financial one than a technical one. And if the Lion forum is any indication, new Apple OSes are even worse than Vista. Fact is there are too many variables to be making generalizations like that one, which are unhelpful and inaccurate. THIS Windows user of 22 years has no problem with new versions of Windows (except Vista, and maybe Windows ME, but those don't count :D )
 
And if the Lion forum is any indication, new Apple OSes are even worse than Vista. [...] THIS Windows user of 22 years has no problem with new versions of Windows (except Vista, and maybe Windows ME, but those don't count :D )

So I guess none of Apple's OS releases count? If they're worse than Vista, and Vista doesn't count, then they don't count either! :rolleyes:

The Lion forum is not an indication. Remember that forums like this are an incredibly biased indication as to how a new release is doing as a whole. This is a forum where people post to get help, so you only get people posting with problems and/or complaints (apart from the odd praise of Lion, but those don't count ;) ). Look elsewhere if you really want to see how Lion is doing. You'd be hard pressed to find a more biased indication of how Lion is doing than here.

It's not a criticism either, it's just the way things are. It's like a hospital. If you want to get a look at the overall health of a group of people, don't look at just the hospital. If you only look there, you'll think the entire group is sick all the time.
 
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