Why does Apple

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by mblank83, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. mblank83 macrumors member

    Jul 4, 2012
    Why does Apple keep money overseas to avoid US taxes?

    I dont understand, if they have money coming out of their ass- why are they avoiding taxes?
  2. thewitt macrumors 68020


    Sep 13, 2011
    Every company owes it to their stockholders to protect their assets. It doesn't matter if they have $100 or $100,000,000

    The confiscatory tax policies of the US force companies like Apple to reinvest overseas rather than spend that money at home.

    The US is fortunate that Apple has continued to invest as much as it has in the US. They could have just as easily put their first two cloud computing data centers somewhere else.
  3. sviato macrumors 68020


    Oct 27, 2010
    HR 9038 A
    Having lots of money is not an excuse to waste it
  4. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

    Oct 9, 2006
    Ah another person thinks that false hood. Last time the us did a tax holiday more money moves over seas afterwards. The companies are greedy and could care less about what is best for the people.
  5. Apple OC macrumors 68040

    Apple OC

    Oct 14, 2010
    Apple pays it's taxes ... they are in the business of making products for profit.
  6. Melrose Suspended


    Dec 12, 2007
  7. thewitt macrumors 68020


    Sep 13, 2011
    You are so misinformed it boggles the mind.
  8. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

    Oct 9, 2006
    which part that companies are greedy or the tax holiday part. The tax holiday part is very true. Very little of that money was reinvested into the US. What ended up happening was MORE jobs and money got shifted over seas for the next one.
  9. samiwas macrumors 68000

    Aug 26, 2006
    Atlanta, GA
    Are you saying big corporations are NOT greedy and DO care about what is best for the people?

    If so, I'm not sure about who is more misinformed.
  10. MacDawg macrumors Core


    Mar 20, 2004
    "Between the Hedges"
    I find it interesting how many users here will...

    Jailbreak their device and pirate apps
    Download music without paying
    Torrent movies to avoid the cost
    Seek help for hacks and cracks to avoid buying software
    Purchase their Mac from certain places to save on sales tax
    Wait for a "tax free holiday" to make their computer purchase

    And yet still vilify Apple for taking advantage of legal tax laws

    It is ok for users to "stick it to the man, entertainment industries and corporations"
    But corporations are expected to be philanthropic and look out for the good of the people

  11. snberk103 macrumors 603

    Oct 22, 2007
    An Island in the Salish Sea
    After posting such a wonderfully complete analysis, I'm surprised you didn't close the thread. There is not much more that can be said. And, no I am not being sarcastic at all....
  12. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

    Oct 9, 2006
    Just goign to point out legal <> ethical. Apple is far from an ethical company.
  13. vvswarup macrumors 6502a

    Jul 21, 2010
    I'm curious as to what you would do if you were in Apple's position. You would do exactly what Apple is doing.


    The same reason you avoid taxes, and don't tell me that you don't try to avoid taxes. You believe that you could put the money to better use than the government could. The same goes for Apple. Apple can put its profits to better use than Apple.

    What Apple is doing is refusing to bring profits earned overseas to the US. That's where the whole "keeping money overseas" things comes in.

    And the simple fact is that taxes in the US are very high. The US has the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world at 40%.
  14. benzslrpee, Aug 25, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2012

    benzslrpee macrumors 6502


    Jan 1, 2007
    1. money moves overseas (e.g. BRIC) cause most people + companies believe they'll get a better return

    2. tax holiday does not mean no tax

    3. companies repatriate cash if they feel there's something worthwhile to invest stateside

    4. use China for this example. it makes almost no sense to make money in a market, repatriate the cash, pay a Big 4 firm an arm and leg to find the optimal tax structure, face shareholder and institutional investor questions on why the CFO just fscked the capital and tax structure six ways from Sunday, watch Wall St punish the decision, watch your investors act on Wall St's decision, and turnaround just to move what's left of the capital back overseas to be reinvested in that market...

    ok slight exaggeration on fscking the capital and tax structure, but when your major institutional investors are Fidelity, Vanguard, JPMC... you know, the people that manage a huge chunk of America's 401k and other retirement funds... you can bet that capital repatriation is definitely not a walk in the park exercise for Apple.

  15. snberk103 macrumors 603

    Oct 22, 2007
    An Island in the Salish Sea
    Define an 'ethical company'. I would contend that no large for-profit corporation is ethical. The exceptions I could probably count on my fingers.... I can't think of one off the top of my head. Corporations who brand themselves as 'ethical' are not being ethical for morality's sake.... but because they feel they can sell more of their product to people who will pay more for a company that is branded 'ethical'. If those customers dried up, those 'ethical' companies would move away from their morality faster than you could say "what the market would bear".

    Apple is no worse, nor any better admittedly, than any other large corporation.

    If Apple is able to avoid paying taxes through legal means, then that is a problem with the tax code - not Apple. And the American corporate tax code is pretty messed up by now. Too many legislators pushing though too many exceptions for political advantages in their states.
  16. G51989 macrumors 68030


    Feb 25, 2012
    NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
    Because they are a large multinational faceless corporation? They all do it.
  17. mcman77 macrumors 6502a

    Dec 22, 2011
    Its simple...if you are in a better position you have expectations. It is like average people donating to charity lol

    They can afford it if you know what I mean.

    Profit margins are much greater with corporations than average workers.

    Even goverments bring out laws (at least in the EU) that help out smaller business from getting eaten by big corporations or gurus of some sort.
  18. GermanyChris macrumors 601


    Jul 3, 2011
    Lets just say I'd be far more inclined to actually purchase from them if they were more philanthropic. Until such time I see this in MAD but I don't need to make movies/music to continue my lifestyle
  19. mblank83 thread starter macrumors member

    Jul 4, 2012
    i jailbreak, use spotify, sometimes find movie for free online if its not for rent on itunes, i dont avoid buying software, i buy my apple products from apple, and dont do the last thing..

    Its different for me because I am not wealthy, I have a pretty low income and don't have the money to afford everything I want at the asking price.

    Apple is far from that situation where If i recall right, Tim Cook said that apple has so much money they have no idea how to spend it

    @snberk- why would he close the thread, that is his opinion, and there is a lot more that can be said- it was a very 1 sided post...The thread shouldn't be cloesd unless an Apple employee who has knowledge in this area gives the definite reason (which probably is to keep stocks high or something) I understand that Appel is saving money and that whole "you'd do it if you were in their position" but what does Apple really save by avoiding the tax laws here? Less than a billion? (Its a question, not rhetorical- i really don't know)?
  20. thewitt macrumors 68020


    Sep 13, 2011
    So their $100,000,000 donations were just not enough for you huh.
  21. MattInOz macrumors 68030


    Jan 19, 2006
    What do think would be achived if they did bring the money back?
    In turns of real positives for the citizens of the USA. Is that enough to counter the negitives of pulling the money out of other countries.
  22. ixodes macrumors 601


    Jan 11, 2012
    Pacific Coast, USA
    Greed & Hypocrisy.

    Two traits Apple covets.
  23. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6


    Aug 17, 2007
    Amen brother.
  24. throAU macrumors 603


    Feb 13, 2012
    Perth, Western Australia
    Because they can.

    Why pay tax if you legally don't have to?

    $1 in apple's account is more use to apple than $1 in uncle sam's account. All uncle sam is going to use it for is chasing imaginary WMDs and Kim dotcom anyway...

    additionally, it is their duty to their shareholders to protect their cash hoard, as posted above.


    No, it is simply good business sense. If the rules allow it, not working to your advantage within the rules is just handing some other guy a competitive advantage on a plate...

    Don't hate the player, hate the game... as they say.
  25. 725032 Guest


    Aug 5, 2012
    They obviously were for you.

    You have formed an opinion that nothing can change.

    Accept that and move on before you say something silly

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