Why does no one want my rMBP Late 2013?

[duervo]

Perhaps a small part of it is loss aversion, but I doubt it's no more significant now than it was historically. Macs have always had higher-than-average resale value. That seems (according to this thread) to have possibly changed in recent times. If it has changed, I don't believe it can simply be attributed to one factor, and one factor only. IMO, it's not simply due to an increased market share for Macs. It most likely also has to do with the lack of "upgrade-ability" (and perhaps other factors, but I'll briefly touch on only this one here.) There's probably a significant portion of people that would have normally been in the market for a used Mac, and were most likely in that market to buy it and then upgrade the RAM and storage. Knowing that you can no longer do that has probably played a part in driving the re-sale value down accordingly.

 

[sunsetblow]

Perhaps a small part of it is loss aversion, but I doubt it's no more significant now than it was historically. Macs have always had higher-than-average resale value. That seems (according to this thread) to have possibly changed in recent times. If it has changed, I don't believe it can simply be attributed to one factor, and one factor only. IMO, it's not simply due to an increased market share for Macs. It most likely also has to do with the lack of "upgrade-ability" (and perhaps other factors, but I'll briefly touch on only this one here.) There's probably a significant portion of people that would have normally been in the market for a used Mac, and were most likely in that market to buy it and then upgrade the RAM and storage. Knowing that you can no longer do that has probably played a part in driving the re-sale value down accordingly.

I think this is definitely a key factor. Considering the power of a Late 2013 rMBP, buying it and upgrading it would be well worth doing if it were a viable option still.

I don't really buy the line that it's all supply and demand. If that were the case, the price on brand new laptops would drop as well. From what I can tell, they've stayed mostly in line.

 

[z31fanatic]

I don't really buy the line that it's all supply and demand. If that were the case, the price on brand new laptops would drop as well. From what I can tell, they've stayed mostly in line.

There have been many sales on new laptops. Especially from Best Buy, Adorama, and B&H Photo.
Right now the 15/8/256 13" rMBP is $1300 ($200 off) at Best Buy. If you are a student, you can get another $100 off to take it down to $1200. That's a pretty good discount I would say.
Adorama had new mid 2014 i7/16/512/GT750M 15" rMBP for $1750 last week. That's pretty deep discount for a new Mac.

I know you're having a hard time believing it but what we are telling you is true.

 

[Wahlstrm]

I would still buy one of the old macs where you could repair stuff your self, but the new once I would not touch on the 2:nd hand market. And I think Apple knows this and that´s why we have no upgradable parts any more. Mac just lived on and retained there value and usability for to damn long..
Now we upgrade every 2 years instead of every 4 years

Macs also used to cost a lot more and that kept the amount of money you got back quite high, since 60% back on your $2000 Mac still was a lot more than getting 90% back on your $1000 PC..

Macs used to be expensive, so less fortunate had to buy them second hand. Today you can get an entry level MBA for $750 if you shop around a bit.. And that entry level will not be that much slower than your 2-3-4 year old machine either..

 

[lixuelai]

Part of the problem is people remember what they paid and think that has anything to do with what something is worth. Loss aversion kicks in and they don't price realistically. It's not just computers I have a friend in the jewelry business and he regularly gets people who are upset to find their $10K Rolex is worth about $3K as a used 2 year old watch.

That is not quite true. Rolex holds their value quite well. Your friend is just trying to low ball the sellers. A better comparison would be things like cars etc.

Also FWIW I bought an open box 2015 rMBP 13 for ~$950 from Best Buy just earlier this week.

 

[jermy4]

I bought a new 2015 rMBP 8GB/256GB from best buy last week for $1169+tax after $200 sale and 10% movers coupon. There are definitely deals to be had on new macs as well as refurbs I also wonder if more people are like me and wouldn't want to buy a 2nd hand mac without user serviceable memory/SSD especially one that is out of warranty so I do think used mac prices are coming down some because of this.

 

[HarryWild]

I usually buy my mobile device at top of the line full specs. I am thinking about looking at a used rMBP but waiting it out till end of October! Prices?????

 

[sunsetblow]

I bought a new 2015 rMBP 8GB/256GB from best buy last week for $1169+tax after $200 sale and 10% movers coupon. There are definitely deals to be had on new macs as well as refurbs I also wonder if more people are like me and wouldn't want to buy a 2nd hand mac without user serviceable memory/SSD especially one that is out of warranty so I do think used mac prices are coming down some because of this.

I've only ever bought one MacBook non-secondhand and have never had a problem with any kind of damage, warranty problems, etc. I don't understand the paranoia. Macs are known for being ultra-reliable, especially in terms of hardware. When huge issues do occur, they're usually just free recalls through the Apple Store. It's never even occurred to me to look out for this kind of thing. Just seems paranoid to me.

Anyway, as an update I sold this model for $825 over craigslist. The guy tried to lowball me in person for $800. Super lame.

 

[jermy4]

I've only ever bought one MacBook non-secondhand and have never had a problem with any kind of damage, warranty problems, etc. I don't understand the paranoia. Macs are known for being ultra-reliable, especially in terms of hardware. When huge issues do occur, they're usually just free recalls through the Apple Store. It's never even occurred to me to look out for this kind of thing. Just seems paranoid to me.

Anyway, as an update I sold this model for $825 over craigslist. The guy tried to lowball me in person for $800. Super lame.

I guess the concern is that if for some reason the drive fails or the memory fails you're pretty much SOL, I do agree that apple usually steps up if there are widespread problems but this isn't always done quickly so you could get stuck with an expensive repair or an expensive boat anchor if apple isn't yet doing a silent recall on whatever issue you're having at the time.

 

[lJoSquaredl]

I remember in 2012, I had a Macbook Pro 13 inch base model that I got refurbed from Apple for $1200 18 months before, sold it on eBay for a little over $1000...I miss those days. Now I usually price every 15 inch rMBP for $1000 and get around that. That'll do, a decent sell price, I get some money towards my next one, no hassles.

 

[fessen]

...
Now we upgrade every 2 years instead of every 4 years

Throwaway consumerism.
Let's just toss this one we have now and get The Latest New thing (that's basically the same thing but with a couple extra gewgaws). It's all just so much plastic.

 

[jlc1978]

That is not quite true. Rolex holds their value quite well. Your friend is just trying to low ball the sellers. A better comparison would be things like cars etc.

Also FWIW I bought an open box 2015 rMBP 13 for ~$950 from Best Buy just earlier this week.

I guess it depends on your definition of holding value. My friend is a dealer so he is only offering wholesale, but even so a used one retail is tends to be 50 - 75% of retail new depending on age and condition; with the ordinary Date Justs at the low end of the scale. Prices tend to vary on the used market with dealers who specialize in used ones tending to be at the high end versus a dealer who only gets one now an then and thus won't pay top dollar for one when buying it. In fairness to my friend, he suggested trying a pawn shop in an upscale area since he might get more for it there since the pawn shop is likely to sell it themselves rather than flip it if it doesn't move in a month or so.

I used Rolex because people tend to have an inflated opinion of their actual market value vs what they paid; a phenomenon not uncommon in computers as well. Personally, I think Rolex is over hyped as a watch but that is just my opinion and YMMV. When someone tells me they bought one "as an investment," unless it is a super rare edition I feel for them because I know they will be disappointed to find out it went down in value if they try to sell it. At any rate, the way to buy one is used; just like cars. As with cars, selling directly to an end user will get you a better price than selling to a dealer.

I am a fan of open box as well. I've bought most of my Macs that way and with extra educational sales discounts and /or the moving discount coupon you can get a good deal on nearly new gear.

 

[sunsetblow]

I am a fan of open box as well. I've bought most of my Macs that way and with extra educational sales discounts and /or the moving discount coupon you can get a good deal on nearly new gear.

Best Buy (technically) doesn't allow edu discounts or movers coupon on open box. Are you referring to buying straight from the edu store on Apple.com or are you just a slick talker with BB staff?

 

[jlc1978]

Best Buy (technically) doesn't allow edu discounts or movers coupon on open box. Are you referring to buying straight from the edu store on Apple.com or are you just a slick talker with BB staff?

Everything is negotiable. I've had BB honor it on open box.

 

[newellj]

Best Buy (technically) doesn't allow edu discounts or movers coupon on open box. Are you referring to buying straight from the edu store on Apple.com or are you just a slick talker with BB staff?

I've had Best Buy accept the movers coupon three times in the last year. As far as I can tell, though, the movers coupon 10% coupon is a thing of the past. The recent USPS kits all seem to have the $5 off $50 coupon.

 

[mdlooker]

I became curious about mine after reading all of this.

I have a mid-2014 13" rMBP 2.6GHz i5, 8G Ram

Just sold on Ebay for $950

I'm not looking to sell though, just became curious and show how this model is selling

 

[sunsetblow]

I've had Best Buy accept the movers coupon three times in the last year. As far as I can tell, though, the movers coupon 10% coupon is a thing of the past. The recent USPS kits all seem to have the $5 off $50 coupon.

I just got a mover's kit last week and it's 10%.

I became curious about mine after reading all of this.

I have a mid-2014 13" rMBP 2.6GHz i5, 8G Ram

Just sold on Ebay for $950

I'm not looking to sell though, just became curious and show how this model is selling

In general, eBay has inflated sale prices because sellers list high to make up for outrageous eBay and PayPal fees.

 

[newellj]

I just got a mover's kit last week and it's 10%.



In general, eBay has inflated sale prices because sellers list high to make up for outrageous eBay and PayPal fees.

Interesting, what expiration date? The ones in the USPS kit here are just the 5/50 coupon.

 

[robeddie]

If you go eBay, I generally start my auctions at $0.99. That gets people bidding and when they start bidding, they feel more affinity to spending more on it. Also, you'll end up with a ton of bids, giving it credibility over the others. The downside is that while you may get the highest for it from eBay, the fees and paypal fees and shipping all kill it.

I prefer selling through Craigslist... just be patient. List it with a story (buying a new one or upgrading to larger screen) !

yah... but ... I myself, and other buyers on craigslist, know that the 'story' they read about any MAC someone is trying to sell is usually BS. I sold a perfectly good PowerBook back in the day, was in great condition. What I didn't tell the buyer was that I had once dropped it on a hard (carpeted, but hard) hotel room floor, and it bent. I used gentle pressure to bend it back into shape .. it looked like nothing had happened. Sold it on craigslist a few days later (just didn't want a computer that had gone through that).

So, yea, I'm a dick. But I assume, justifiably, that others selling their laptops are also possibly concealing something as well.

I'm telling you all this because you need to understand, once ANYTHING is used (laptops especially since they get manhandled all day long), the buyer has no friggin' idea what hell you actually put it through, and that right there takes a significant amount off the price. People trying to sell a used, 2 year old laptop for barely less than I could buy a refurb one directly from Apple (with a warranty)... they're just being silly.

 

[jmgregory1]

For those that think the selling price of Macs are effected by being non-user upgradable, you're delusional. The market for user serviceable / upgradable computers, phones, etc. is a thing of the past. The majority of consumers do not want to have to do anything with their computer, other than to use it for what it was meant. My guess, regarding the lower selling price of used Apple computers is driven by broader availability and as others have stated, by sale prices at most resellers.

 

[dogslobber]

My guess, regarding the lower selling price of used Apple computers is driven by broader availability and as others have stated, by sale prices at most resellers.

The lower selling price on eBay is great. Long may it continue to be driven down so that regular users can get entry to the market.

 

[Count Blah]

For those that think the selling price of Macs are effected by being non-user upgradable, you're delusional. The market for user serviceable / upgradable computers, phones, etc. is a thing of the past. The majority of consumers do not want to have to do anything with their computer, other than to use it for what it was meant. My guess, regarding the lower selling price of used Apple computers is driven by broader availability and as others have stated, by sale prices at most resellers.

Think that all you like. I'm not buying a second hand "all glued in" Mac, I advise my family, and anyone who will listen to me, to do the same. That may put us in the minority? Probably. But it certainly does not make us delusional, but it does allow us not to be taken for suckers. I've had WAY too many battery issues with Macbooks over the years, so there is no way I'm getting one from some unknown person, where it could be on it's last legs, AND have little to no recourse to resolve.

The lower selling price on eBay is great. Long may it continue to be driven down so that regular users can get entry to the market.

Yes, but the Apple zealots have a hard time understanding the trends - more availability is part of the story. The non-acceptance of zero user repairability/upgradeability also plays a part, but again, the zealots do not want to accept this notion either.

 

[dogslobber]

Think that all you like. I'm not buying a second hand "all glued in" Mac, I advise my family, and anyone who will listen to me, to do the same. That may put us in the minority? Probably. But it certainly does not make us delusional, but it does allow us not to be taken for suckers. I've had WAY too many battery issues with Macbooks over the years, so there is no way I'm getting one from some unknown person, where it could be on it's last legs, AND have little to no recourse to resolve.

Yes, but the Apple zealots have a hard time understanding the trends - more availability is part of the story. The non-acceptance of zero user repairability/upgradeability also plays a part, but again, the zealots do not want to accept this notion either.

What's an "all glued in" Mac really mean? For a 2010 MBP, one could replace the battery, add memory, or replace the hard disk. Does the typical user really do any of these things? It's hard to gauge where eBay's buying demographic lies to suggest if that influences prices. Laptops have only been expandable due to off the shelf components needing well-defined slots to be utilized. I think Apple is diverging away from off the shelf as it now defines what components should be. You wouldn't have ultra-fast SSD speeds of the recent MBPs if you still had the clunker SATA3 interface. Memory is integrated into smaller and smaller motherboards. If you consider a FRU used to be a memory chip, look at the size of the motherboard in the MacBook; it's tiny and that's the FRU now. I reckon memory soldered to the motherboard is just a commoditization of the upleveling of a FRU due to engineering advancements. Nothing sinister.

But I'd have to say if your battery + memory + hard disk is the definition of "all glued in" or not, then the battery is still replaceable and you can buy 3rd party SSDs. Memory is now not the FRU.