Why does sharpening suck so bad in Aperture?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by mcarnes, Dec 30, 2008.

  1. mcarnes macrumors 68000

    mcarnes

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    #1
    I'm guessing it must have something to do with sharpening a raw image (opposed to a TIFF). Compared to something like PhotoKit Sharpener or even the sharpening sliders in Noise Ninja, Aperture just plan SUCKS.

    What that means, basically, is that every pic has to be converted to a TIFF so it can be sharpened (or some format other than the original raw).
     
  2. CrackedButter macrumors 68040

    CrackedButter

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    #2
    Or more likely, you don't know how to use Aperture properly, have you thought about that?
     
  3. numbersyx macrumors 65816

    numbersyx

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    #3
    I actually find it better in Aperture than Lightroom. It's one of the reasons I've stayed with Aperture.
     
  4. disdat macrumors regular

    disdat

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    #4
    I also like sharpening in Aperture 2. I like it much much more than iPhoto
     
  5. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #5
    Why not use the Noise Ninja plugin for Aperture?
     
  6. mcarnes thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcarnes

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    #6
    Fair enough. So how do you guys do sharpening in Aperture, other than just using the sliders.
     
  7. mcarnes thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcarnes

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    #7
    I do, and it is excellent. But it won't work with the raw file which means you have to have two files for every image. That gets big especially if they are TIFFs.
     
  8. CrackedButter macrumors 68040

    CrackedButter

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    #8
    Sorry if I sounded blunt before.

    There are 2 things you should be aware of.

    1. Aperture does a small amount of pre-sharpening once it imports the file into Aperture. Scott Bourne from TWiP mentions this in a blog post. I use my housemates 28mm lens and my images are shaper than his, he uses Lightroom and has to do those adjustments himself. Of course you can do further adjustments.

    2. This might sound silly, but I try to get the image as sharp as possible in the camera as well.

    So all in all, I don't actually do any sharpening in Aperture other than a small adjustment with the Definition slider. Does this help?

    These might as well:

    http://blogs.oreilly.com/aperture/2006/12/a-basic-primer-on-aperture-edg-1.html
    http://support.apple.com/kb/TA24421?viewlocale=en_US - points of the different types of sharpening involved.
    http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00IH8A
    http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2006/12/21/inside_aperture_podcast-5.html - podcast which might be helpful
     
  9. jaduffy108 macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    I think many will say Aperture is "ok" in terms of sharpening.

    For sharpening, I prefer Nik Software's "Sharpener Pro" plugin.

    For noise, I like Nik Software's Dfine plugin...NoiseWare Pro second...and Noise Ninja third.
     
  10. mcarnes thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcarnes

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    #10
    Any digital camera with an AA filter requires some sharpening in post (i.e. all cameras).

    No offense, but I don't think any of you guys have seen a properly sharpened photograph, if you think the crap coming out of Aperture is acceptable.
     
  11. wheelhot macrumors 68020

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    #11
    Yikes, be prepared for some flaming (Im getting my fire resistant jacket!) :mad:
     
  12. CrackedButter macrumors 68040

    CrackedButter

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    #12
    I think I gave you a quite informative post. This is your reply? I even mentioned a comparison between me and my housemate having used the same lens with different software which we use it with. My housemate is the one telling me my images are sharper than his btw.

    Might I also point out that we are both photojournalists and not just 2 people with cameras bought for them at xmas. Soon our livelihoods will depend on what we photograph.

    I'm thinking of uploading them to make my point but I'd have to give you full resolution copies or 100% crops.

    Having said all that, why don't you upload some images and show us how they are not sharp? For me:

    1. I always focus on the eyes, as long as eyes are on focus I don't care about the rest of the image.
    2. I shoot a lot at high apertures such as f1.4,f1.8 and f2. But I also know that shooting 2 stops below a maximum aperture on a given lens will give me a even sharper image. On occasion I need to use the 16-35mm L and F4 is the place to be.
    3. For my low light work I need to nail the sharpness because I'll use the fastest apertures on moving targets (night street photography) if its in focus where I want it I don't care about the rest of the image.

    What kind of photography do you do, what apertures do you shoot, what lenses? Forget about the software for the moment, lets talk how you go about getting the sharpest image in camera first.
     
  13. G.T. macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    Try using definition not sharpen
     
  14. chrono1081 macrumors 604

    chrono1081

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    #14
    Aperature sharpening looks fine to me and I KNOW I've seen more properly sharpened photos then most people on this board. I do like NIK and as others have stated yes, all digital cameras require some post processing however there is so much that can be done on the camera, and if done properly on the camera, you really cant see a difference between most software sharpening because the images out of your camera are already tack sharp.

    This means:

    -Sharp glass
    -Tripod system with proper dampening
    -Shutter release
    -Mirror lockup
    -Proper focus and exposure. Utilize live view and zoom if you have a newer camera
    (And yes, I understand the above is not practical for all types of shooting)

    Once you have all that set up and in place and take some shots you will be hard pressed to find a big difference in any decent sharpening software.
     
  15. CrackedButter macrumors 68040

    CrackedButter

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    #15
    Thanks, you've backed up what I'm trying to get across.

    At the same time though, you've pointed out that if its being done properly in camera maybe this is why the thread starter is not seeing any difference because he is doing everything right!?! :)
     
  16. wheezy macrumors 65816

    wheezy

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    #16
    I usually never sharpen my images unless I'm going for a post processed feel; for portraits I prefer to let the lens to the sharpening; as the poster said above focus on the eyes and everything else comes into place.

    I don't know anything about Dark Rooms, but I'm pretty sure they didn't have edge sharpen back in the film days.... let the camera do the brunt of the work.
     
  17. mcarnes thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcarnes

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    #17
    I don't see the point in going through the trouble to resize and upload images when it is clear that you do not have the capacity to see the difference anyway. I'd probably have to apply a Gaussian blur to one of the photos before you'd notice a difference.

    I use a 1Ds MkIII, various L lenses, heavy Gitzos, mirror lock, cable release, etc. I shot large format for about ten years before going digital, mostly chromes, some negs. I use WCI for the scans. I don't use Aperture with these files. I only use it with raws.

    I used to be a pro and shot for the park service while I was a biologist there. I'm a doctor now and own two clinics, so I just do photography for fun.
     
  18. wheezy macrumors 65816

    wheezy

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    #18
    Well I used to shoot for Rolling Stone Magazine, the New York Times and did the Family portraits for dozens of the Washington Elite. Or I just shoot photography for a hobby. We don't care about your money and how cool you were.

    I don't really know what kind of response you're looking for in regards to your question? Maybe it's just how RAW files are, maybe then don't sharpen like a TIFF? I don't know how that all works. And part of me thinks that some features in programs like Aperture are left weak so there is a good market for 3rd Party Developers to work in; ie Noise Ninja etc. Every major developer needs to keep the minor developers happy and that's just one of the ways they do.

    It would be nice to see examples though. Is it really that troublesome? If I wanted help solving a math problem I'd most likely get the best results posting the entire problem, not just the first half... we need the other half of your problem.
     
  19. panoz7 macrumors 6502a

    panoz7

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    #19
    Come on guys... Give the op a break. Yeah, his response was a little harsh but at the same time nobody answered his question (at least right away), instead of being told how to better sharpen images in apeture you told him how to take sharper images. I think he mentioned his equipment to show that it was capable of taking sharp pictures and that he knew to use a tripod, mirror lockup, etc.

    So given that he, or at least I know the best way to take sharp pictures already, what's the beat way to properly sharpen that really sharp picture I just took with apeture? Someone mentioned the definition slider, is that the way to go?
     
  20. CrackedButter macrumors 68040

    CrackedButter

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    #20
    Which makes sense though right? Get the job done first in the camera.
     
  21. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

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    #21
    Before this gets WAY out of hand,

    Can I see some of the work you are talking about? Give me a photo that was sharpened in Aperture, and another sharpened in another app like Noise Ninja or Photoshop.

    Then we can see what is going on and others can stop speculating at what the OP should find acceptable and what actually is acceptable.

    Personally, I am with the OP on this one. I am a die hard Aperture users but there are times where I wonder if I will ever be able to fully edit an image in Aperture and not have to bring it into Photoshop. Very rarely do I have to do it for sharpening, but color/tonal correction is just about every image if need arises.
     
  22. wheelhot macrumors 68020

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    #22
    Question:
    Answer:
    Honestly I dont see why is it so hard to resize a photo? Just upload it to flickr, and then click "all size", choose the size you want and copy the URL link, paste it here. Better then having people bashing you for what you said and not getting your problem solved.
     
  23. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

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    #23
    Wow.... never saw that before.

    Seriously OP, upload two images so we can help you out, and the thread can have some meaning.
     
  24. CrackedButter macrumors 68040

    CrackedButter

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    #24
    In Aperture I believe it is a 3 click process to resize an image file using the preset then another 3 click process to upload it onto MR.
     
  25. ChrisA macrumors G4

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    #25
    Sharpening should always be the last thing you do to an image but it certainly must be preformed after you have resized the image. It is pointless to do before as you have to know the numbers of pixels per inch of the final product before you can correctly sharpen.

    Aprture's work flow makes this hard to do. Aperture wants you to sharpen the RAW un-resized image and then re-sampe wen you export it. This can work in theory but it is hard to do because you can't see the result untill after you've done the export and then you have to go back and re-do it.
     

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