Interesting. By what measurement is Apple maybe the greediest?
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Why doesn't Apple make a watch that last up to ten years on a non rechargable battery
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By the Macrumors “we love/hate/don’t understand capitalism all at the same time” crowds metrics.
Yup! Totally agree! Can't compare smartwatch to a non-smartwatch for battery life. One uses way more power for all the reasons you noted and the other doesn't.
This thread really belongs in the wasteland category
Comparing a quartz watch running on a CR-2032 lithium watch battery to an Apple Watch is like comparing a desk clock powered by AA batteries to an iPhone.
There are absolutely vast differences in the amount of power consumption between the two devices, and at least part of that is because the Apple Watch and iPhone both do way more things than a quartz watch or a desk clock.
To improve battery life beyond what's already possible, there are only three things you can do: improve hardware/software efficiency (which Apple has already been doing); make the device do less stuff (which isn't really a viable option); or make huge improvements to battery chemistry (which the entire consumer electronics industry has been trying to do for decades).
Actually … technically, the technology is there. Granted, it’s not fusion, but it is nuclear.
The only problem is that you’d have a bit of plutonium strapped to your wrist.
(It might sound like science fiction, but it’s real. I don’t think one’s been implanted in decades, but there are people out there with plutonium-powered heart pacemakers.)
Of course, it wouldn’t necessarily be powered by plutonium; there are lots of other isotopes, and something with a shorter half-life that produced more power would probably be preferred. I’m not a nuclear engineer; go ask one if you’re really interested.
Note to readers: you most emphatically do not want, and never will have, a nuclear-powered wristwatch. Unless, of course, you count my fusion-powered Ultra. And, by fusion-powered, I, of course, mean solar-powered. With the solar panels very conveniently mounted on the roof of my house, where they can collect power all day long without me having to haul them around, which is nice considering how big and bulky and heavy they are. All I have to do is pop the watch on its charger while I take a shower, and — miracle of miracles! — some of the energy from millions-of-years-ago hydrogen fusion deep in the heart of the Sun trickles into the watch, more than enough to power the watch for another day or three. And, oh-by-the-way, also collect enough energy to power the rest of the house. And two cars. Pretty cool, eh? Driving around in a fusion-powered car?
b&
I have long thought Apple should add a long-lasting quartz watch type battery for it's timekeeping functions that would be long lasting (3 years +) and easily replaceable. The it could dedicate the regular battery to smart functions. The watch would live on as a watch even without the smart functions. That would be make the Apple Watch less of a consumer disposable and more of a durable good.
It’s not the timekeeping that sucks down the battery. It’s showing the time that sucks it down.
Those Casios that go a decade on a small lithium cell? Their LCD displays don’t emit light (unless you press a button to turn on the single sad LED on the side). And, by today’s standards, they’re extremely low contrast, which means extremely low energy, even when active.
I guarantee you absolutely nobody is interested in an Apple watch with an old-school multi-segment watch LCD display carved into the middle of it.
I get it, the notion that a watch should be forever.
But, if you’re old enough, you’ll remember the days when phones had rotary dials, and those things are just as “forever.” I still have Grandma’s phone on a wall. Would you believe it? Even though I have digital coaxial phone service, the phone still works. It would ring — literally, with electronic bell and hammer that sounds very much like the iPhone’s “old phone” ringtone — if I didn’t have that line permanently forwarded to voice mail. You can literally dial a number with the rotary dial, and the call will go through. Of course, you can’t access anything that requires DTMF touch tones, though you could probably use a tone generator on your iPhone and hold it up to the mouthpiece.
If you’re not upset at the fact that phones are a consumer disposable and no longer a durable good, then you shouldn’t be upset that the same has already happened to watches.
Yes, there are environmental impacts and all the rest. Yes, this is an existential problem for not just our species but most of the species on the planet right now. But watches are a small part of that problem, and the solution has nothing to do with watches.
Ultimately, the solution — assuming the solution isn’t extinction — involves fewer humans up front, and those humans using staggering (by today’s standards) amounts of solar power (and, maybe in a century or so after we’ve already done most of the hard work, fusion) to reverse the damage we’ve done (mostly by pumping CO2 back in the ground). The good news is, first, that we appear to have naturally turned the corner on population growth, thanks mostly to getting girls in developing nations into schools; and, second, that solar is already cheaper than fossil fuels (and fission) with its price still in freefall. The bad news is that we’ve already “baked in” enough damage that massive suffering is inevitable. The only real questions are how much suffering we’re actually in for, and how that suffering will interact with the other two big variables.
So, really truly, whether or not your watch is a consumable or a durable good … is utterly irrelevant. Buy it, wear it, or not; but focus your attention on the bigger picture if you want to reduce human (and other) suffering.
b&
Why can’t a tank of gas in my car last for ten years?
The plutonium batteries used to power pacemakers weighed 300 grams and were about 60 millimetres long. They wouldn’t fit in an Apple Watch, but you might be able to use one to power a Pip-Boy.
I'm kind of thinking they hope you buy a new watch every 3 years. Also power consumption aren't even in the same hemisphere.
Well, of course, you wouldn’t re-use the exact same battery for a watch. Also, for starters, I’ve no clue what the power requirements of a pacemaker are, including standby, peak, recharge time, all that.
An Watch has a battery with a capacity of about 1 Wh, with the Ultra having about double that. And since they typically need to be charged daily (the Ultra twice that), the device is operating at about 1 Wh / 24 h = 1/24 W = 0.04 W. Since 238Pu has a power density of about 0.5 W/g, a tenth of a gram of plutonium should do the job just fine. (A capacitor, etc., should work if the watch needs significantly more peak power — or just use a bit more plutonium.) It doesn’t need much shielding and it’s pretty darned dense, so fitting an RTG into the package of the watch’s existing battery is “only” a matter of engineering, but should be pretty easy with today’s technology. (A cube of water about 1/8” on a side has a mass of a tenth of a gram and plutonium is about 20 times as dense as water, so you’re going to need a magnifying glass to clearly see a 0.1 g sample of plutonium.)
Again, for emphasis: this is never going to happen. Ever. While technologically probably not that much of a challenge, it is such an amazingly bad idea on so many levels for so many different reasons.
Like, to begin with … never mind the whole nuclear weapons proliferation thing, the stuff is at least as toxic as nerve gas. It can spontaneously catch fire — chemically, that is; again, never mind critical mass for nuclear detonation. Really super extra-nasty horrible stuff! You have to look hard to find something that’s worse.
b&
To wait for all hell to break loose and hope for human suffering is not a good strategy to effect societal change. So waiting for population decline before doing things is a very poor idea and is basically an excuse to sit back, do nothing, and pontificate on internet forums. Change can happen anywhere and anytime and is best done from the bottom up -- hence the entire point of marketing. To do that, we must change the ethos of people one small step at a time. Start fighting crime by cleaning up graffiti -- like they did on New York 40 years ago. Use great design and innovation to promote things like durability over disposable consumerism and people will follow if they can buy into the message. Buying a Rolex that can be maintained over a lifetime is the appeal of owning such a thing -- not how well it displays the time. Corporate leaders like Apple can do much in this regard but they have not risen to the challenge.
Funny you should use that example. Yes, that’s how it was billed at the time, and is often cited as to this day by the original proponents.
In reality, it’s overwhelmingly clear that all it actually did was increase police harassment of minorities. There isn’t any correlation between such laws and crime rates.
You know what actually brings down crime rates?
Universal education in quality schools; a strong, well-paid labor force; and a reliable social safety net for those who stumble (let alone fall through the cracks). European-style healthcare would do far, far, far, far more to bring down crime than any anti-graffiti task force could possibly dream of.
This is another unfortunate myth. Very similarly, consumers are blamed for single-use plastic packaging; yet just you try to buy anything in the grocery store that’s not in single-use plastic packaging. If you want to eat, you’ll buy stuff in single-use plastic packaging.
Sorry, but it’s not my fault that I buy stuff in single-use plastic packaging.
The fault lies in those who make it in the first place — or, rather, in “we the people” who fail to make such products illegal. But quarterly shareholder profits reign supreme, and buy our politicians. Again, not my fault that my congressional representatives, many of whom I didn’t vote for, will listen to the CEO of Dow Chemical but not to me.
This isn’t a problem caused by consumers or individuals, and it most emphatically isn’t going to be solved by consumers or individuals.
To solve it … we first need to make sure that girls in the developing world get a good education; there’s little evidence that anything else is effective at reducing population. And next most important is to stop mining hydrocarbons; again, the only proven method is to substitute with something better (especially something cheaper), which solar already is.
After that, the next biggest step is effective anti-pollution laws. Which we used to have before the Reagan era. Indeed, Nixon signed the law that created the EPA …
Quite the contrary. Corporate leaders in general are the worst offenders at actively (and effectively, alas) imperiling civilization by impeding effective remedies. To be fair, Apple is one of the least-worst corporations in this regard; many others are far, far, far worse.
But actual effective change would impinge on Apple’s quarterly shareholder profits, too — never mind that it’s essential to their profits a decade or three from now — and so they stand by as some of their peers buy yet more politicians.
b&
speak for yourself! I drive a 21 year old truck with 525k miles
Heh … if we’re making those comparisons … that’s brand new.
My newer car was made in the Johnson administration. The older one … in the Adenauer administration, and imported in the Eisenhower administration …
Guaranteed somebody is going to one-up both of us!
Any Tin Lizzies out there? Still on the road?
b&
The police were not cleaning up the graffiti and trash -- it was the sanitation department. These reforms were very effective even without the police reforms which came later. They were so successful that such models were taken to other cities -- and low and behold -- it worked there too.
What a defeatist point of view! People make all kinds of decisions that move industries/countries. Tesla has accomplished what no other major car company could do by making technology cool and fashionable. Tesla literally changed the car industry by changing the narrative. It made environmental responsibility cool. Ultimately, though, it was the people the bought into the concept. This is what I am talking about. This is what Apple could do too by taking a few first steps. No reason at all to believe that doing good must be uneconomical or noncompetitive.
Not true once again. This is a bogeyman -- scapegoating corporations for all of societal ills. It is not a reasonable position because, collectively, the invention of the corporation has created more wealth and prosperity for more people than any other type of human institution. Are they perfect -- no. But corporations have literally change the world for the better. There other types of institutions in this world that do more to impede progress and have done far more to damage to human kind than the "evil" corporation. Anyway, I feel this conversation has strayed a little and this forum/thread is not the place for such discussions. So, suffice it to say, I totally disagree with you. Enjoy your evening.
I hope this is a joke or a whine post, and you aren't serious. If you are, here's why Apple can't make a watch with a 10 year battery life:
The battery would be giant!
Batteries are a store of energy. Each sensor/ dial/ or screen on the Apple Watch uses some electricity. The Apple Watch 7 has a 300 mAh battery (per MacTracker). Amp Hours is the amount of storage that exist in the battery. For simplicity, I'll assume the current watch lasts for 1 entire day before needing to be recharged.
A 10 year battery would be a 1,095,000 mAh battery, or 1,095 Amp Hour battery. That would be 50 of these batteries strapped on your wrist: https://www.amazon.com/12v-20ah-battery/s?k=12v+20ah+battery
"But my cheap Casino lasts for 10 years, what's up with that?"
The cheap Casino doesn't use a lot of power because there's no sensors, and a battery can last for 10 years.
"But they make batteries with advanced technologies and are smaller!".
I'm not able to find a battery for sale with that many amp hours.
The battery would be giant!
Batteries are a store of energy. Each sensor/ dial/ or screen on the Apple Watch uses some electricity. The Apple Watch 7 has a 300 mAh battery (per MacTracker). Amp Hours is the amount of storage that exist in the battery. For simplicity, I'll assume the current watch lasts for 1 entire day before needing to be recharged.
A 10 year battery would be a 1,095,000 mAh battery, or 1,095 Amp Hour battery. That would be 50 of these batteries strapped on your wrist: https://www.amazon.com/12v-20ah-battery/s?k=12v+20ah+battery
"But my cheap Casino lasts for 10 years, what's up with that?"
The cheap Casino doesn't use a lot of power because there's no sensors, and a battery can last for 10 years.
"But they make batteries with advanced technologies and are smaller!".
I'm not able to find a battery for sale with that many amp hours.
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I did a research and there is growing technology of next gen batteries in Rzeszów, Poland (cheers from Poland where once again great product will be sold outside because government don’t give a flying fu about technology)
But still it’s about faster recharging and more capacity in same space. Not as much to build such thing OP expected.
thebatteries.tech
But still it’s about faster recharging and more capacity in same space. Not as much to build such thing OP expected.
Product
Key features of solid-state thin-film batteries Solid-state thin-film lithium ion batteries that are produced using thin-film technology can achieve superior characteristics in comparison with tra…
thebatteries.tech
No. The plutonium itself isn't the largest component of an RTG. The largest component is the heat sink itself, which needs to be of sufficient size to both absorb enough heat to produce useful voltage and not radiate so much heat into its surroundings that it doesn't damage them (whether that's body tissue or watch circuitry).
A heat sink that would fit into an Apple Watch would not be nearly big enough for the purpose. It would either produce insufficient voltage or not absorb enough heat to stop the watch from suffering heat damage. If you think the Apple Watch feels uncomfortably warm when it first comes off its charging puck, that's nothing compared to what an insufficiently-sized RTG heat sink would do.
Here's an analogy for ya.
10year sealed battery smoke alarms are becoming the norm.
The power cells in those are somewhere between the size of a AA and C battery.
Smoke alarms have a much less power draw than say, an Apple Watch, which is literally a micro-computer.
And even then, many of those smoke alarms will be lucky to make it 7-8 years before dying, and likely need warranty replacement.
The battery cell technology is just not there yet, as well as the required power management that doesn't adversely affect device function.
You could make your Apple Watch last 10 years probably.
You just need to wear a battery pack the size of a VHS tape*, and hardwire it into your watch.
Edit: * post #45 has a better approximation of battery size needed, LOL!
10year sealed battery smoke alarms are becoming the norm.
The power cells in those are somewhere between the size of a AA and C battery.
Smoke alarms have a much less power draw than say, an Apple Watch, which is literally a micro-computer.
And even then, many of those smoke alarms will be lucky to make it 7-8 years before dying, and likely need warranty replacement.
The battery cell technology is just not there yet, as well as the required power management that doesn't adversely affect device function.
You could make your Apple Watch last 10 years probably.
You just need to wear a battery pack the size of a VHS tape*, and hardwire it into your watch.
Edit: * post #45 has a better approximation of battery size needed, LOL!
20 years? Think bigger! Why not 30 years? Why not a lifetime? I mean, I have a self winding watch that will last a lifetime, WITHOUT a battery. Come on Apple, get with the program!