Why doesn't apple support SCSI TAPE?

ks71612

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 22, 2005
4
0
I just got off the phone with AppleCare Support after waiting on hold for 1.5 hours. I have 2x Power Mac G5's with a terabyte of storage. I wanted to know what tape backup system was supported or known to work with OS 10.4X - the answer - "we don't know.. you could get an Xserve Array and backup to that"

Final Cut Pro Studio includes DVD Studio Pro which is capable of creating DVD-9 dual-layer DVDs. All DVD replication houses require each layer to be written onto separate DLT tapes and submitted. So what DLT tape drive works with the G5? It's SCSI of course and Apple doesn't have a SCSI card for the G5, not only that, Adaptec has announced that it will not support OSX. So what other SCSI controllers work with OSX and the G5? the answer - "We don't have that information, you'll have to contact the manufactures directly and ask them"

I just called the local Apple Store.. their MAC GENIUSES gave the same answer.. except they suggested a 1TB LaCie Drive for backups.

All I have to say right now is that I'm VERY disappointed in Apple Support.

If anybody out there has a working solution, please send me email directly so I can avoid spending thousands on 'iffy' solutions.. I'll be surfing the web for the answers and I don't know that I'll be back here soon enough.

Thanks,
KJ
kjs@sun.com
 

edesignuk

Moderator emeritus
Mar 25, 2002
19,233
2
London, England
yg17 said:
Why should Apple support some other company's products?
Er, to help out their professional users? Doesn't sound like a lot to ask for some kind of DLT backup support (though I'm not sure if the lack of it is actually down to them). Everyone (business) backs up to high capacity DLT.
 
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Silencio

macrumors 68020
Jul 18, 2002
2,406
259
NYC
Apple does not make backup software.

Look into BRU Server (tolisgroup.com) or Retrospect (dantz.com). They include the necessary drivers for most tape drives. Of course you should verify with them that the tape drive or changer you want to use is comatible with their product.

ATTO makes SCSI cards for the Mac. Adaptec's screwy SCSI cards are no big loss.

Methinks you need an actual consultant instead of just a salesperson...
 
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rainman::|:|

macrumors 603
Feb 2, 2002
5,438
2
iowa
If Apple finally got an Enterprise division up and running, a question like this would be standard fare for one of their sales consultants. Apparently they don't think Macs need help penetrating the business world, however...
 
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CanadaRAM

macrumors G5
Silencio said:
Methinks you need an actual consultant instead of just a salesperson...
Second that opinion. In your area there should be a computer consulting firn with video/audio studios in their resume. Seek them out and establish a relationship. You don't go to the Chevy dealer if you need heavy equipment...
 
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Silencio

macrumors 68020
Jul 18, 2002
2,406
259
NYC
rainman::|:| said:
If Apple finally got an Enterprise division up and running, a question like this would be standard fare for one of their sales consultants. Apparently they don't think Macs need help penetrating the business world, however...
Well, Apple does indeed have an Enterprise sales group. I've worked with a couple of very good reps over the years and they take care of me and my customers pretty well. I've never bought anything non-Apple-branded from them, nor have I asked for much advice about third-party products because I know how to do my own research, :D but I'm sure they would be a lot more helpful in that regard then a Genius or Tier 1 sales drone who's programmed exclusively to answer consumer-oriented questions.
 
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boskie

macrumors regular
Feb 6, 2001
187
0
North Side Of Itchy Town
Here at work we run 2 G5's running 10.3.9 both with ATTO UL3D dual channel SCSI cards (now discontinued apart from direct from ATTO) and a combination of DLT 8000's and 4000's.

We have no trouble at all with them, as well as our replicators.

I'm afraid I have yet to update these systems to 10.4 but can only think that as long as the ATTO drivers work in 10.4 you will have no troubles creating DVD5's or DVD9's directly from DVDSP.

I also use these same ATTO cards (or the UL4D's) to connect a combination of Medea and Infortrend EonStor RAID's locally to all our Mac 10.x systems - 1x Protools, 2x FCP HD, 2x DVDSP.

Hope this helps, if not pm me and i'll try to give you some more info.
 
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mduser63

macrumors 68040
Nov 9, 2004
3,039
30
Salt Lake City, UT
I bought an ATTO UL3S SCSI card direct from ATTO and a DLT-4000 off of eBay just last week. They're working great with my Dual G5 and Panther. I don't have Tiger on that machine, but I've heard from others that the same setup will work fine in Tiger.

I haven't tried to do regular file backup, I'm only using it for DVD masters, but I don't know of any reason why the same setup wouldn't work with file backup if you were to get Dantz Retrospect.
 
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ks71612

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 22, 2005
4
0
Thank God for the Users

Now that's what I'm talking about!
I would have expected Apple to have a Hardware/Software Compatibility Matrix. but Nooooooo, go figure it out for yourself is the answer.

I don't think that it is appropriate to be told to buy an Xserve Array to do
backups with., it's totally absurd.

I want to thank everyone that has taken the risk to buy 3rd party tape drives and controllers without any reasonable hope of getting them to work (and finding a way to make it work) and then posting their experience, kudos to you!!

Has Apple out-sourced their front-line support?

Thanks again for the renewed hope through you all !!
KJ
 
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yellow

Moderator emeritus
Oct 21, 2003
16,032
1
Portland, OR
I am still flying on an old G4 and OS9 for our SCSI based tape back up. I couldn't get the damn thing to work with OS X and an Adaptec SCSI card.. F**K Adaptec. Basically the card and OS X drivers would only recognize either the tape drive, or the robotic arm.. not both. Worthless.
 
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cube

Suspended
May 10, 2004
16,983
4,965
For Retrospect

Waiting for my Dell LTO1 to arrive to replace my Sony DDS3.

I'm starting to outgrow my RATOC FR1SX FireWire to Ultra SCSI converter (max. 20 MB/s), as the LT0 does 15 MB/s native, but needs 30 MB/s to be saturated with hardware compression on). Somebody must come up with a converter to a faster SCSI version!
 
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ks71612

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 22, 2005
4
0
I have 2x 2GHz G5's , the current Atto SCSI cards are all PCI-Express.
The G5's have standard PCI not PCI-X slots.
Does anybody know if the PCI-Express UL3D card will work in a plain PCI slot?
 
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MisterMe

macrumors G4
Jul 17, 2002
10,648
29
USA
ks71612 said:
I have 2x 2GHz G5's , the current Atto SCSI cards are all PCI-Express.
The G5's have standard PCI not PCI-X slots.
Does anybody know if the PCI-Express UL3D card will work in a plain PCI slot?
You are confused. You Mac has PCI-X slots. They will accept PCI-X or PCI cards. Macs do not have PCI Express slots, which are different than PCI-X.
 
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Silencio

macrumors 68020
Jul 18, 2002
2,406
259
NYC
ks71612 said:
I have 2x 2GHz G5's , the current Atto SCSI cards are all PCI-Express.
The G5's have standard PCI not PCI-X slots.
Does anybody know if the PCI-Express UL3D card will work in a plain PCI slot?
Okay, now you're incredibly confused.

ATTO's line of cards has been called "ExpressPCI" for quite some time, but that does *not* mean they are PCI Express cards! Please read the specs more closely.

Yes, the UL3D will work in a Mac. They even have OS 9 drivers.

http://www.attotech.com/ultra3d.html
 
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solvs

macrumors 603
Jun 25, 2002
5,684
1
LaLaLand, CA
http://www.attotech.com/scsigrid.html

You'll need one of the UL4D or UL4S cards, as they are PCI and PCI-X compatible. It just says Mac OS X, so you may want to e-mail them to ask if they support Tiger, though I'm sure they do. Look at places like MacMall or MacConnection to see if they sell them, which they should. Don't look to Apple's consumer support for advice. Try their business support. There's a link to their e-mail address somewhere on Apple's page.
 
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cube

Suspended
May 10, 2004
16,983
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Is there any package that allows one to write tar, bru tapes with DDS, DLT and LTO?
 
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ks71612

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 22, 2005
4
0
I just found a web page with some very useful info on high-speed, high-performance configurations..

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/support/detail.asp?techID=62

This is the kind of stuff I would have expected Apple to have on their support site. I'm not asking for Apple to assume responsibility for the gear, just advise what seems to work well with the Apple Products.

I will check out the Business Site and start working with them.

KJ
 
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