Why don't applications actually shutdown when I quit out?

[chaos86]

Modern computers are fast enough that opening applications are mere seconds. I just did a test on my box.

Maybe Safari, TextEdit, etc. Try Photoshop, InDesign, even Word, or anything else that loads a bunch of plugins or font's when you start it.

Personally, I don't make the mistake of leaving 10 apps open. I see it happen sometimes to others, but I think that only happens to switchers and novices. Normal mac users and pros quit their apps properly just like normal windows users close the last window instead of minimizing (or leaving it behind the other windows that they insist on maximizing). Anyone can leave something running in the dock or start bar by accident.

 

[r.j.s]

IMO it makes more sense for an application (even one that handles multiple documents) to close when the last window is closed. Its my opinion but to me that makes more sense.

Word 2008 is slow to load, I don't want to close the last document and have to wait for it load again when I open a new document.

 

[iMacmatician]

Word 2008 is slow to load, I don't want to close the last document and have to wait for it load again when I open a new document.

For me, that's true with most apps. I don't want to wait for it to start up, I want to switch to it quickly when I need to use it, even if no documents are open. Even with single-window apps, I usually keep them running in the background.

And Command + Q is just as fast as Command + W and even faster than clicking the close button. Plus, at least I have a choice to leave the app running with no windows open, or to quit it. In Windows I don't have that choice.

And people say Mac OS X doesn't give you choice…

 

[mrkgoo]

Sorry but I just dont see it that way. Maybe its because I used windows before OSX but to me, its no different than minimizing an application which has a zero K document - as far as memory usage goes. I know of nobody that would work that way or even see the need to work that way. Modern computers are fast enough that opening applications are mere seconds. I just did a test on my box.

What I do see is people at work including the designers forgetting that they have left nearly every application open with no data in it while they just work in photoshop or Quark on some huge layout and then complain that the computer is kinda slow. I remind them that they could close some programs they are not using and they do. Guess what, the computer seems to thrash the drive a little less when there is more memory available.

IMO it makes more sense for an application (even one that handles multiple documents) to close when the last window is closed. Its my opinion but to me that makes more sense.

You have just been trained to think that closing a window should close the application.

An application is an application, a window is a window. Some apps continue to actually function when all the windows are closed. iTunes will continue to play, messengers will continue to be active, Mail will continue to retrieve emails and so on. Having these running, but without an active window make total sense to me.

 

[contoursvt]

I dont know, I guess I've always built a pretty peppy system for home (my windows box) and at work I have a quad PPC so even though its older, I dont really feel it to be slow doing anything. It takes about 5 seconds to launch CS2 and Word 2003 (I know thats pretty old) opens about as fast as I can keep clicking. I dont know how slow the newer word would be or something newer than CS2.

 

[contoursvt]

I guess thats true. Those apps continue to function so it makes sense for them to have that option, but I just cant see what quark or photoshop or illustrator would be doing open with no window. I guess its just what I'm used to. If I was to have an option in those programs to close the application upon closure of the last window, that would make me happy Of course now that would have to be an application setting.

You have just been trained to think that closing a window should close the application.

An application is an application, a window is a window. Some apps continue to actually function when all the windows are closed. iTunes will continue to play, messengers will continue to be active, Mail will continue to retrieve emails and so on. Having these running, but without an active window make total sense to me.

 

[contoursvt]

I guess no window open in an OSX environment is the same as having no data loaded in Windows. That you could do in windows and I think its essentially the same thing, but less elegant.

So for example if I open photoshop with no document and just minimize it, that will have the same functionality (as far as I can tell).

Plus, at least I have a choice to leave the app running with no windows open, or to quit it. In Windows I don't have that choice.

And people say Mac OS X doesn't give you choice…

 

[BobZune]

Coutoursvt - you might want to browse the Apple Human Interafa ce Guidelines http://developer.apple.com/document...le_ref/doc/uid/TP30000894-DontLinkElementID_1 -- and possibly other similar Apple documents (and a few general human-machine interface guidelines elsewhere). It is a big topic and of course there are different HMI philosophies. And of course, we are all entitled to our opinions -- but any design must involve tradeoffs.

Apple's Applications vs Windows is just a different paradigm than you are/were used to in the mswindows world.

 

[techfreak85]

you do sound like a PC convert. when you close an app window, most of the time it wont close the app. just that window. say i had a photoshop project i was working on. i close the old one, Photoshop stays running and i can open an other project.

In windows, closing the window and the whole app are related, so many people kinda tie that together, when really its better to be able to control the whole app OR the window. if you want to close the window and the app you can,
1) Just right/control click on the icon on the Dock
2)Select the name of the App in the menu bar
3) When in the App, press command/-Q

 

[HLdan]

I understand how some people that are new to Mac that were Windows users for a long time are confused as to how the document based system on the Mac OS works but if the situation were reversed they would be even more confused or even frankly annoyed by the way Windows' application based system works.
If a person started out on a Mac and have been using it for years, then decide they want to start using Windows I can guarantee they will be coming to forums pissed off saying, "Why is it in Windows that every time I simply want to close a document window the whole application quits"? "It's really annoying" "I didn't want the whole app to quit". "Mac OS let's me keep my apps open without a window". "Why does Windows do this"?

 

[techfreak85]

I understand how some people that are new to Mac that were Windows users for a long time are confused as to how the document based system on the Mac OS works but if the situation were reversed they would be even more confused or even frankly annoyed by the way Windows' application based system works.
If a person started out on a Mac and have been using it for years, then decide they want to start using Windows I can guarantee they will be coming to forums saying, "Why is it in Windows that every time I simply want to close a document window the whole application quits"? "It's really annoying" "I didn't want the whole app to quit".

haha exactly. thats why many people like graphic designers use macs. open and close documents/projects with out closing the App with ease.

 

[contoursvt]

Thanks BobZune, I might just do that. Maybe I need to look at it differently than I am now

Coutoursvt - you might want to browse the Apple Human Interafa ce Guidelines http://developer.apple.com/document...le_ref/doc/uid/TP30000894-DontLinkElementID_1 -- and possibly other similar Apple documents (and a few general human-machine interface guidelines elsewhere). It is a big topic and of course there are different HMI philosophies. And of course, we are all entitled to our opinions -- but any design must involve tradeoffs.

Apple's Applications vs Windows is just a different paradigm than you are/were used to in the mswindows world.

 

[iMacmatician]

I guess no window open in an OSX environment is the same as having no data loaded in Windows. That you could do in windows and I think its essentially the same thing, but less elegant.

Okay. I stand corrected on that part.

 

[r.j.s]

I guess no window open in an OSX environment is the same as having no data loaded in Windows. That you could do in windows and I think its essentially the same thing, but less elegant.

E.g. Photoshop's plain gray application window. In OS X, that window doesn't exist because you don't need an empty window open to hold the app open.

 

[BobZune]

Thanks BobZune, I might just do that. Maybe I need to look at it differently than I am now

Cool - we all get "pre-damaged" to some extent when we switch from using A to using B.

[Related geeky personal story that might reveal my age: I started using the Intel 8085 microprocessor long ago and was familiar with it to the point of being able to write object code directly - most of it anyway. Then I learned Motorola 6800 and I couldn't write either object code anymore - even for Assembly language commands, I had to look them up once in a while since they were - at least slightly - different even for similar operations.]

 

[SebZen]

Can somebody please explain again why if I 'maximize' (what is this button called in Macs? The green + orb) Safari, it only maximizes vertically but not horizontally?

I understand someone said that it was to see what's going on in the desktop better, but for example I have Adium open on the left side of the screen, and when I try to maximize Safari, it maximizes over the Adium window

 

[pdjudd]

Can somebody please explain again why if I 'maximize' (what is this button called in Macs? The green + orb) Safari, it only maximizes vertically but not horizontally?

I understand someone said that it was to see what's going on in the desktop better, but for example I have Adium open on the left side of the screen, and when I try to maximize Safari, it maximizes over the Adium window

Thats because it is not a maxamize like in windows. Its a window fit.

 

[JNB]

Can somebody please explain again why if I 'maximize' (what is this button called in Macs? The green + orb) Safari, it only maximizes vertically but not horizontally?

I understand someone said that it was to see what's going on in the desktop better, but for example I have Adium open on the left side of the screen, and when I try to maximize Safari, it maximizes over the Adium window

The first part has been explained already in this (and countless other) threads. For the second part, remember that only one app has focus at a time. The OS assumes that when you resize a window, you are doing it to the exclusion of whatever else is on the desktop. No OS is multi app/multi-window aware in that sense.

 

[SebZen]

OK the minimize thing seems to just be a design decision with Safari. I got Firefox and the + maximizes it like normal (or the way I'm used to it )

Last question: When I go to the Applications folder and then Utilities, I can delete those Apple utilities. That's kind of scary Is there a backup to these incase I or someone else deletes them for whatever reason? I'm hoping they're just shortcuts and that's why I can delete them just like that

 

[r.j.s]

Last question: When I go to the Applications folder and then Utilities, I can delete those Apple utilities. That's kind of scary Is there a backup to these incase I or someone else deletes them for whatever reason? I'm hoping they're just shortcuts and that's why I can delete them just like that

No, do NOT delete them. They are not shortcuts, they are the actual apps.

 

[SkyBell]

OK the minimize thing seems to just be a design decision with Safari. I got Firefox and the + maximizes it like normal (or the way I'm used to it )

Last question: When I go to the Applications folder and then Utilities, I can delete those Apple utilities. That's kind of scary Is there a backup to these incase I or someone else deletes them for whatever reason? I'm hoping they're just shortcuts and that's why I can delete them just like that

You can do the same thing in Windows...but Windows doesn't usually rely on Explorer to find your apps.

 

[SebZen]

You can do the same thing in Windows...but Windows doesn't usually rely on Explorer to find your apps.

Well in Windows it would say something like you do not have permission to delete this file or it just won't delete.

I know what the benefit of it is.. you have 'complete' control. It's neat and all but definitely scary how easy it is to delete them