Why Don't Carriers Just Let Us Upgrade?

[panzer06]

No one does that, it is a HUGE rip off.


Better for the carriers to take the hit rather than the person.

People in Europe do that (pay full price) more often and T-mobile charges less per month if you don't buy a subsidized phone (except that promo they're running right now) so no contract works for me. The other carriers make it so there is no incentive to buy the phone outright. The service costs the same; only difference is the ability to drop them if you don't like them. I finally dumped AT&T for T-Mobile and while I wish they had the iPhone it's not worth it to me.

I prefer owning the device and getting less expensive service. I DO NOT want that AT&T merger to go through ever!

Cheers,

 

[Sakic10]

try being in Canada we have to sign 3 year contracts to get the good price.

 

[mamcx]

And that's the problem, it's over priced! They are made in China, yet still being sold for $600. Only Apple could pull that off.

Because software development is free - like US 150.000/year/developer free- (and marketing, support, bussines operations and all that innecesary stuff). Only hardware deserve to be payed for.

As software developer, I only live because the chessburgers I sell.

 

[nmork]

Because software development is free - like US 150.000/year/developer free- (and marketing, support, bussines operations and all that innecesary stuff). Only hardware deserve to be payed for.

As software developer, I only live because the chessburgers I sell.

I'd like a double bishop chessburger with a side of checkmate, please.

 

[vitzr]

Until people accept the fact that Apple controls everything, and charges obscenely high prices, they'll never understand. The masters of control & intimidation, they force the carriers to sign very restrictive contracts or they don't get the phone.

This is why there's been a lot of speculation about Sprint being put out of business by Apple's practices and brutal pricing. Crushed under the massive pile of debt Sprint has taken on, unless they sell & activate iPhones at a record setting pace day after day, they don't stand a chance.

I do think Apples like an ultra wealthy family that have always lived at the top. Apples so clever, they've calculated a way to squeeze people for the maximum amount of money they will give up just to be seen with an iPhone. People who are normally rational become intoxicated from Apples marketing & influence. It's a very unique scenario that continues to draw them in.

 

[anonymous12]

try being in Canada we have to sign 3 year contracts to get the good price.

^This. And the contracts suck, carriers suck, and are extremely over-priced.

 

[thewitt]

Until people accept the fact that Apple controls everything, and charges obscenely high prices, they'll never understand. The masters of control & intimidation, they force the carriers to sign very restrictive contracts or they don't get the phone.

Then don't buy Apple.

No one is forcing anyone to do anything here.

 

[thewitt]

... I pay full price for an unlocked phone whenever possible. Gives me full flexibility and worth every penny.

 

[marksman]

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The problem is there are legal issues with stacking contract extensions so they just have to offer a new one. They can't just say you have 3 months plus 24 months for 27 months. They have to just make it 24 months. The satellite tv providers have the same issue. There are reasons why they dont just stack you out for 6 years on three contracts. It is much harder for them to legally enforce. I suspect the more you spend per month the more months they are willing to eat

 

[BigHonkingDeal]

This is like the bank customer who came in and asked if we would discount the principal owed on his loan if he paid it off. On his $1.2 million balance, he was hoping for a couple hundred thousand reduction in pay off.

Any guess on the answer to this request?

Sorry, but we already reduced your Home Value by half....

 

[lakaiordie]

This is like the bank customer who came in and asked if we would discount the principal owed on his loan if he paid it off. On his $1.2 million balance, he was hoping for a couple hundred thousand reduction in pay off.

Any guess on the answer to this request?

That's the most retarded example I've ever read in my entire life. Go jump off a cliff.

 

[Peterg2]

^This. And the contracts suck, carriers suck, and are extremely over-priced.

It really depends which carrier you go with and what you are able to negotiate when you have been there a while (with Rogers 6 months). Through the retentions department/customer relations I, and many others, have negotiated plans with unlimited local minutes and unlimited North American long distance, unlimited text, visual voice mail, 6 GB data (for me plenty), name display, who called etc, all for about $70 including taxes. Others have even more extreme deals. Rogers, however, have tightened up on the granting of monthly credits etc but what you see on the website or what you discuss with normal customer service, is far from what is available.

If you want to see what is available through your carrier go to howardforums.com and read through the retention threads of your particular carrier.

 

[Hankster]

Perhaps my question is stupid and I don't realize it. If that is the case I'm sorry.

I'm 70 days away from being eligible to upgrade my cell phone. As an iPhone 4 user I certainly don't need to upgrade right now or in 70 days. However I've wanted a 64 GB iPhone for years now and I'd gladly extend my contact 2 yrs to get one. I'm happy enough with AT&T to do so.

So I call CS and ask nicely if I can upgrade early. The CR checks with her manager, I get a firm "no" a minute later. I did tell the CR that I'd be getting the 64 GB model potentially before she checked with her manager.

I can wait. It would be ridiculous to pay an extra $250 for the privilege. But I'm confused as to why carriers simply don't let their customers upgrade when they want knowing that they are extending their contract an additional 24 months. Again, perhaps there is a clear answer to this, but I don't see it.

It's all about the discount they gave you in the beginning. The discount, selling you the phone at $199, was based off of you having that phone for two years. When it's less than that they lose money.

Carriers make money off monthly subscriptions much more than the sale of the actual phone.

 

[Sakic10]

It really depends which carrier you go with and what you are able to negotiate when you have been there a while (with Rogers 6 months). Through the retentions department/customer relations I, and many others, have negotiated plans with unlimited local minutes and unlimited North American long distance, unlimited text, visual voice mail, 6 GB data (for me plenty), name display, who called etc, all for about $70 including taxes. Others have even more extreme deals. Rogers, however, have tightened up on the granting of monthly credits etc but what you see on the website or what you discuss with normal customer service, is far from what is available.

If you want to see what is available through your carrier go to howardforums.com and read through the retention threads of your particular carrier.

That is an amazing plan, mine is no where near that but it is better than you can get as it was negotiated through retentions. I don't mind the carriers in Canada, I mind the inability to upgrade reasonably because of the 3 year contracts most regular folk are forced into signing.

I wonder why they decided that 3 years was necessary when the only do 2 years in the states, always confused me.

I'm with Telus btw, and have no issues with them as a company

 

[DroidRules]

Yes.
Would AT&T rather keep me as a customer by allowing an upgrade and extend my contract or losing me to another carrier after my current 24 month contract ends?

I just don't get your logic. YOU signed a 2 year contract. YOU are provided a service by At&t during that 2 year contract. They live up to their end of that contract and YOU don't want to? YOU expect them to subsidize your first phone and before you fulfill your end of that contract you want them to subsidize another phone.... Fully expecting them to do the same the next time you want to upgrade?

Don't like the terms of your contract get another provider but don't expect them to take a monetary hit because you think they should upgrade you.

 

[Nicksd84]

Perhaps my question is stupid and I don't realize it. If that is the case I'm sorry.

I'm 70 days away from being eligible to upgrade my cell phone. As an iPhone 4 user I certainly don't need to upgrade right now or in 70 days. However I've wanted a 64 GB iPhone for years now and I'd gladly extend my contact 2 yrs to get one. I'm happy enough with AT&T to do so.

So I call CS and ask nicely if I can upgrade early. The CR checks with her manager, I get a firm "no" a minute later. I did tell the CR that I'd be getting the 64 GB model potentially before she checked with her manager.

I can wait. It would be ridiculous to pay an extra $250 for the privilege. But I'm confused as to why carriers simply don't let their customers upgrade when they want knowing that they are extending their contract an additional 24 months. Again, perhaps there is a clear answer to this, but I don't see it.

I'm sure most people have said it already, but they're paying Apple the full price. The extra two months of revenue from you will help offset or get them above the difference between what you paid and what ATT paid. It seems easy to say "I'm 70 days away, what's the big deal?". But if they kept doing that, they'd end up losing money and in the long run the subsidized upgrade process wouldn't be worth it for them.

 

[DiamondMac]

They want your money...period.

They have no interest in giving consumers a fair deal. Rather, they love putting us in multiple-year deals then paying hundreds months later on top of the hundreds already spent on an over-priced, under-serviced phone with average at best reception.

Every day we seem to find new ways for the phone companies to get more out of the consumer.

 

[mantan]

And that's the problem, it's over priced! They are made in China, yet still being sold for $600. Only Apple could pull that off.

That's the bigger issue. The markup/profit on the iPhone is phenomenal. We all pay extra over the life of the contract to fuel that profit.

But I have no issues with Apple since people are willing to pay it. Nor with the carriers who recoup the cost (and some profit).

To the OP's question, the issue is everybody wants to be the exception. You are 3 weeks from you contract. What about the person who is 4 weeks...or 6 weeks or 9 weeks? It's easier to make everyone comply to the contract they signed rather making exceptions.

As soon as you make exceptions, those people will tell everyone (like the people who posted on here) and suddenly people are mad if they don't get let out of the contract they signed.

 

[Peterg2]

That is an amazing plan, mine is no where near that but it is better than you can get as it was negotiated through retentions. I don't mind the carriers in Canada, I mind the inability to upgrade reasonably because of the 3 year contracts most regular folk are forced into signing.

I wonder why they decided that 3 years was necessary when the only do 2 years in the states, always confused me.

I'm with Telus btw, and have no issues with them as a company

The reason why Rogers was giving incredible plans last year is that their exclusivity with the iphone was ending and they were terrified with losing customers to Bell and Telus.

That being said, this year is going to be much harder. I upgraded from a 3G to a 4 last year in the space of 2 years and only paid $159 for the 16 GB (had to sign another contract for 3 years - but not stacked). It was even more extreme with 3GS owners who, in the space of 1 year were also able to get the low price. Look here and see what the deal was

http://redboard.rogers.com/2010/iphone-4-launches-tomorrow-on-rogers/

 

[DiamondMac]

Don't like the terms of your contract get another provider but don't expect them to take a monetary hit because you think they should upgrade you.

You mean, after the hundreds it costs to get out of the ETF that is put in place for no reason other than the companies wanting more revenue? Or how about the fact that you arguing that the phone companies lose ZERO on the phone when a consumer buys a subsidized phone and upgrades a year later at another subsidized contract?

The argument of "Stop complaining about your deal" is laughable and basically another way for people to say, "I have no way to defend the absurd and ridiculous nickel-and-dime done to consumers so shut up"

 

[mrsir2009]

No one does that, it is a HUGE rip off.


Better for the carriers to take the hit rather than the person.

Uh, no. If you get a subsidized phone your locked into a 2 year plan that costs more money than your average prepaid user would spend on their phone. It actually ends up costing you more to go on the locked in plan, but people do it because they'll only have to fork out a couple of hundrad bucks upfront, rather than a grand. In other words, you'll be paying for your iPhone over the period of two years (and then some), rather than paying for it all up front.

 

[xraydoc]

Until people accept the fact that Apple controls everything, and charges obscenely high prices, they'll never understand. The masters of control & intimidation, they force the carriers to sign very restrictive contracts or they don't get the phone.

This is why there's been a lot of speculation about Sprint being put out of business by Apple's practices and brutal pricing. Crushed under the massive pile of debt Sprint has taken on, unless they sell & activate iPhones at a record setting pace day after day, they don't stand a chance.

I do think Apples like an ultra wealthy family that have always lived at the top. Apples so clever, they've calculated a way to squeeze people for the maximum amount of money they will give up just to be seen with an iPhone. People who are normally rational become intoxicated from Apples marketing & influence. It's a very unique scenario that continues to draw them in.

Apple is a business. They're in it, in part, to make a profit for their stockholders. It's not the same as greed.

 

[lionqueen]

You say you are willing to sign a new 2 year contract but are not willing to live up to the terms of your CURRENT 2 year contract....

He IS willing, he's just asking a question. Smh.

 

[2010RS]

wahhhh....apple sells a product that people want at a price they are willing to pay.

do you expect them to sell them at cost? they're a business, not a charity. where do you think they get their money to develop and design new products?

 

[DroidRules]

You mean, after the hundreds it costs to get out of the ETF that is put in place for no reason other than the companies wanting more revenue? Or how about the fact that you arguing that the phone companies lose ZERO on the phone when a consumer buys a subsidized phone and upgrades a year later at another subsidized contract?

The argument of "Stop complaining about your deal" is laughable and basically another way for people to say, "I have no way to defend the absurd and ridiculous nickel-and-dime done to consumers so shut up"

When did I ever argue the part in red? I am saying the companies lose money when they let people upgrade early.... well I get yearly updates but that's because I spend $170 a month on 2 iPhones. But you see, they make their money back faster from me because I pay so much a month.... hence the yearly upgrade.

I do have a very easy and very legit way to defend it.... It's called a 2 YEAR CONTRACT! Don't like the rules of that contract then don't enter into that contract. No one forced you to sign it, so live up to it or pay the price to get out of it. That's the facts and can't be disputed.

ETF's are there to cover the money lost on a subsidized phone. Let's say you get 4s at the subsidized rate of $299. Then say in 2 months you decide you don't like at&t any more and want to leave. If there was no ETF at&t would be out hundreds of dollars. You think they should just eat that? If you believe that then you really don't understand economics. If you let me barrow $400 and I never paid you back you would be mad correct? Of course, so at&t charges the ETF to recoup that money. That's also why the ETF is pro-rated.... that means it is reduced the longer you have your contract with them. See how it works?