Why I am now a proud owner of a Surface Pro

[M. Gustave]

Yes. I know what TDP is. Do you know how irrelevant it is in terms of what people actually do with their computers?

If you're trolling Macrumors, it's not relevant. If you're encoding an mkv file, it's absolutely relevant.

Is your main metric power use or that Intel calls it desktop/mobile? And why are either relevant?

The claim was made in this thread that the Surface Pro is a "desktop class" machine, which is obviously incorrect. I corrected that, complete with specific numbers and references. Other than silly questions, do you have any relevant technical information to refute what I posted?

 

[spinedoc77]

That's a desktop operating system, not "desktop class". Stupidly obvious.

Of course the operating system is desktop class, or whatever desktop label you want to put on it. It runs desktop programs, and runs them well. Still stupidly obvious, nothing to correct here. I may have somewhat agreed with your opinion 25 or so years ago before laptops became popular, but the days of only having a beige box as a "desktop" are far behind us. If I connect my SP4 to my monitor/keyboard/mouse and sit down at a desk, you better believe that's my desktop.

 

[StayPuft]

I'm actually an English major

Then why are your paragraphs ten trillion characters?

 

[derekamoss]

Because I wrote it on a mobile device in a forum where I didn't have to worry about proper format or grammar.
[doublepost=1480831181][/doublepost]

If you're trolling Macrumors, it's not relevant. If you're encoding an mkv file, it's absolutely relevant.



The claim was made in this thread that the Surface Pro is a "desktop class" machine, which is obviously incorrect. I corrected that, complete with specific numbers and references. Other than silly questions, do you have any relevant technical information to refute what I posted?

It seems to me you are the one trolling. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean he's wrong. I've used my surface to render video and edit it even when its only the tablet part. Yes it's slower than a desktop computer maxed out but it does everything a desktop computer can do still. I don't know if you know but plenty of people in the industry of music and video use a laptop and when the sit at their desk dock it and that is there desktop computer. Quit trolling unless you have something productive to the conversation.

 

[trifid]

Since Jobs died Apple I believe has lost their passion and are only in it for profits which was Microsoft a while ago.

Exactly this. It's incredible how many mac users are coming to the same conclusion, this isn't by chance, Apple is truly losing vision and focusing on profit maximization without regard for its users. Soldered ram on mac minis is one of the most outrageous insulting things Apple has done to date for example.

 

[C DM]

Exactly this. It's incredible how many mac users are coming to the same conclusion, this isn't by chance, Apple is truly losing vision and focusing on profit maximization without regard for its users. Soldered ram on mac minis is one of the most outrageous insulting things Apple has done to date for example.

With the vast majority of typical users not even knowing anything about that or caring about anything like that (even if they somehow found out about it and even understood it).

 

[tech4all]

I'm a speed reader. I read your hole post in 8 seconds. I really liked the part about the dog...



And yes things are a changing and maybe not for the better. We all must make choices.

You remind me of this clip.

 

[trifid]

With the vast majority of typical users not even knowing anything about that or caring about anything like that (even if they somehow found out about it and even understood it).

100% disagree, don't underestimate "typical" users, that's the worst mistake you can possibly make and that seems consistent with what Apple is doing.

 

[C DM]

100% disagree, don't underestimate "typical" users, that's the worst mistake you can possibly make and that seems consistent with what Apple is doing.

Nothing to under or overestimate as reality over many years demonstrates it all rather well.

 

[trifid]

Nothing to under or overestimate as reality over many years demonstrates it all rather well.

I'm not sure what "demonstrates" it. Do you mean years of profits? Sure, Apple also profited disgustingly in the 90s, for several years, and it led them to near death. So not sure what you mean.

By the way, I'm a heavy Apple critic and still buy Apple products. Friends and family that are casual "typical" users keep using Apple products but continue to grow disillusioned. They see how Apple increases prices with no substantial breakthroughs. Just to give a few examples, not too long ago a family member was raving about his friends Galaxy S7, how superior the camera was (this was prior to iPhone 7). And mentioned that Apple was getting behind.

And that's my point, Apple can 'appear' successful. Investors may appear happy. But the truth is the truth, Apple isn't innovating, they are resting on their laurels, no wireless charging, no oled, no revolutionary tv service, lackluster apple watch release, no Echo competitor, caveman Siri. Nothing.

What do we get? Dongle heaven, milking the userbase through expensive dongles, expensive battery cases. And you bet "typical" users feel the burden by having to buy and carry these dongles, for no apparent immediate benefit to them.

 

[Dave245]

If that's your thing then great, but personally i don't want Apple to build a touch screen Mac, and i don't think Apple will, they have said a few times in interviews, in fact one with Craig not long ago (after the announcement of the 2016 MacBook Pro's) mentioned it. The Surface is trying to be 2 things in one, and from what i've seen and heard from friends and people who have to use them professionally (one of my friends is a teacher and she has to use one for class, she hates it) they fail at both. Personally i wouldn't use one because of Windows, but that is personal preference. I prefer to use an iPad for touch and my Mac for full computer tasks, i don't think they should be mixed together, and from what Apple have said about it, i think they agree.

Edit: i have to say on the issue of Apple not being passionate anymore, i have to disagree, Apple still make great products, the iPhone 7 is a great phone with some really great features (i love mine). The iPad Pro is a great iPad and the Mac's are great computers. I still have my 2011 MacBook Pro, it still works, as does my 2012 iMac. I think Apple products last, do they cost more? yes defiantly, but i think it's worth it to pay more for something that will last you longer and with a lot fewer issues.

 

[lyngo]

I'm actually an English major, though you might not tell from this post, so I tend to write ALOT on something that could be explained in less words lol.

English major? Grammar? Not just paragraphs in this case, but also the word "alot" is two words "a lot."

 

[0lf]

I've used my surface to render video and edit it even when its only the tablet part. Yes it's slower than a desktop computer maxed out but it does everything a desktop computer can do still. I don't know if you know but plenty of people in the industry of music and video use a laptop and when the sit at their desk dock it and that is there desktop computer.

So I am happy to learn that my core M machine is now considered desktop class.

 

[Beavix]

i don't want Apple to build a touch screen Mac, and i don't think Apple will, they have said a few times in interviews, in fact one with Craig not long ago (after the announcement of the 2016 MacBook Pro's) mentioned it.

Don't believe what Apple says. Right now they are late to the game and want to push the iPad sales. Adding a touchscreen to a MacBook doesn't mean it will transform it into a tablet. A touchscreen can be a very useful secondary input device, just like the Touch Bar currently is. You don't have to use a touchscreen all the time, but it's there when you need it, like for quickly swapping a notification off the screen. I'm pretty sure they'll add it eventually to the MacBook line and will come up with some very nice tricks for it, then everybody will say it's the best thing ever

 

[Dave245]

Don't believe what Apple says. Right now they are late to the game and want to push the iPad sales. Adding a touchscreen to a MacBook doesn't mean it will transform it into a tablet. A touchscreen can be a very useful secondary input device, just like the Touch Bar currently is. You don't have to use a touchscreen all the time, but it's there when you need it, like for quickly swapping a notification off the screen. I'm pretty sure they'll add it eventually to the MacBook line and will come up with some very nice tricks for it, then everybody will say it's the best thing ever

While that is possible, I don't think it's a good user experience, and from what I've been told the Surface is not that good at it. It's possible that in the future Apple could do a touchscreen Mac, an maybe there's a chance they would get it right, but I doubt they will do it, however I could be wrong and only time will tell. Don't forget it was Apple (Steve Jobs in fact) that believed in "people don't know what they want" and I think to a certain extent it's true, people only know what they think they want! We will see in time

 

[derekamoss]

So I am happy to learn that my core M machine is now considered desktop class.

And your comment would make sense if the surface only had a core m processor in it and not also an i5 & i7 processor.

 

[0lf]

And your comment would make sense if the surface only had a core m processor in it and not also an i5 & i7 processor.

So what ?
The core M can run the exact same desktop programs, just a little bit slower than a core i5. That the exact same argument as yours. So it does not make sens because your logic does not make sens.

 

[Michael Goff]

If you're trolling Macrumors, it's not relevant. If you're encoding an mkv file, it's absolutely relevant.



The claim was made in this thread that the Surface Pro is a "desktop class" machine, which is obviously incorrect. I corrected that, complete with specific numbers and references. Other than silly questions, do you have any relevant technical information to refute what I posted?

So are you saying a 45w processor will encode an mkv file faster than a 15 or 28 every time without fail regardless of anything else? The Surface Pro can be a desktop because the processor is desktop class.

So I am happy to learn that my core M machine is now considered desktop class.

Core M is the future of Mac Mini, I'm calling it now.

 

[businezguy]

I'm not sure why there's an argument about whether the Surface Pro is "desktop class" or not. That sounds like a marketing term more than anything meaningful. I can tell you that I'm typing this message while my Surface Pro 3 is hooked up to a 4k monitor and I've had no trouble with multitasking. I can tell you that prior to using this for work, I was using the same Surface Pro 3 on the sofa to read "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo". I was also using my pen on my Surface to annotate a PDF file. The Surface Pro series wouldn't be my first choice if I was doing heavy editing of videos and the like, but for the majority of professionals it should be more than sufficient.

I've been a Mac user since OS X and I could tell Apple had the capacity for success from that point on. I don't see that capacity anymore. I say this while Apple is making many times more profits than it ever was 10-15 years ago. In order to continue to succeed, you need to try new things and ensure your company remains relevant. Apple isn't doing that, and it shows. While Apple has the capacity to change this, I don't think this particular CEO is able to manage towards long term planning and visionary projects. The car project fell apart pretty quickly, as an example.

If some folks want to be Apple fan boys, that's fine. My suggestion would be to start writing to Apple and explaining why you stopped buying their products for the time being. If you keep your eyes closed, what remained of Apple's innovation will be gone, and a boring company will be what's left.

 

[derekamoss]

So what ?
The core M can run the exact same desktop programs, just a little bit slower than a core i5. That the exact same argument as yours. So it does not make sens because your logic does not make sens.

I must have misinterpreted your post then, the core m Surface sure can be hooked up to a display and keyboard and mouse and be used as a desktop. Yeah it will be slower but that's it. I thought you were saying all the surfaces have a core m processor.

 

[0lf]

I'm not sure why there's an argument about whether the Surface Pro is "desktop class" or not. That sounds like a marketing term more than anything meaningful.

IMHO, its not marketing, and M . Gustave express it quite well :

it's a build that doesn't care about form factor or power usage.

It is a form that trade mobility for power.

 

[derekamoss]

While that is possible, I don't think it's a good user experience, and from what I've been told the Surface is not that good at it. It's possible that in the future Apple could do a touchscreen Mac, an maybe there's a chance they would get it right, but I doubt they will do it, however I could be wrong and only time will tell. Don't forget it was Apple (Steve Jobs in fact) that believed in "people don't know what they want" and I think to a certain extent it's true, people only know what they think they want! We will see in time

I think his statement on that was more for things that were not mainstream already. iPod, iPhone, iPad and he was right. However, touch screen is so entrenched into peoples minds now that the argument for that no longer is appropriate. I hear on forums about this topic about how people use their iPhone and iPad so much when they sit down at there laptop they unintentionally try to touch the screen because Apple it self has put touch first into everyone's mind. I can't see how they would ever think a touch screen Mac or a tablet with OS X (sorry macOS) wouldn't be what people want. They literally are the reason everyone now things touch should be standard in everything but yet they are the only ones who wont go there. It makes no sense to me other then cannibalizing iPad sells. It boils down to they want you to spend a crap ton of money on a phone, a laptop, an iPad, and maybe a desktop iMac at the same time instead of merging it for their target audience's convenience.

 

[businezguy]

IMHO, its not marketing, and M . Gustave express it quite well :

It is a form that trade mobility for power.

I agree, but that doesn't mean it can't be used for desktop usage just like I'm using mine. I'm not going to play games on it. The problem is, with companies like Intel focusing on improving efficiency instead of performance, mobile computing is beginning to catch up performance wise to full fledged desktop computers. Just look at how the iPad Pro performs compared to a 2013 MacBook Pro, as an example.

We are way past the time when people needed to buy a huge desktop box to place on their desk. A Surface Pro can be a desktop if it meets the needs of the person using it, and mine works just fine for my needs. When I want to play some games, I play on the Xbox with my 8 year old son.

 

[Kostas3000]

As an owner of surface, many MacBooks and iPad, I can say that the apple hardware is way superior. The Apple user interface is also hands down better.

I will keep on saying that the main limitations are software related.

I will also say that for as long as we need a physical keyboard as the input method the laptop will remain the best device for serious productivity. The reason is that the tablet has a flexible keyboard and it will never be as a robust option as the laptop keyboard. Of course the keyboard is so much a 20th century device, we need a working dictation solution for this century.

By the way I tried dictating this comment... I gave up, totally useless. So many mistakes that they totally disrupt the stream of thoughts. Instead of apple trying to build cars or who knows what else, they should show some more respect for the needs of the current users.

I love my mac and iPads, but that does NOT mean that I will create illusions that they are perfect and I will stop asking for improvements

 

[Michael Goff]

I agree, but that doesn't mean it can't be used for desktop usage just like I'm using mine. I'm not going to play games on it. The problem is, with companies like Intel focusing on improving efficiency instead of performance, mobile computing is beginning to catch up performance wise to full fledged desktop computers. Just look at how the iPad Pro performs compared to a 2013 MacBook Pro, as an example.

We are way past the time when people needed to buy a huge desktop box to place on their desk. A Surface Pro can be a desktop if it meets the needs of the person using it, and mine works just fine for my needs. When I want to play some games, I play on the Xbox with my 8 year old son.

That fact really pisses some people off.