Why I am un-switching

[w00tmaster]

17 days ago I ordered what I considered to be the system of my dreams. Now I am officially through with Apple. I became a mac fan after needing a new laptop, and I figure I would give Apple a look. I fell in love with the iBook, and although I had some difficulty when I ordered it(I was overseas in Japan and accidentaly ordered 2 iBooks. I was either sleeping or at work while the phones were open, so I sent an email, ended up getting both shipped, cost me $20, but I was still happy), but after I held the iBook in my hands I became an instant fan. I even went to the Ginza store to look around and got my picture taken with a cute employee there and set it as my desktop. I evangelized how wonderful Apple is to my friends and family.
I got a job this summer doing bioinformatics progamming at my university. The iBook just wasn't going to cut it, so I decided that with what little money I have, I would splurge on a fancy new dual 1.8Ghz G5. So after I get everything in order, I sign up for the Apple developer program. I try to order, but it doesn't seem like I can use my loan. I call up Apple, and everything just went downhill from there. They told me on the phone that I couldn't use my loan at the dev store. So I had to wait till the next day to call the dev people who told me that I could, I just had to use the line where it said business loan or something along those lines. So I figure I really want to play Doom 3 when it comes out, so I should really upgrade the video card to a 9600XT, it was only $40 more, and I added a bit more ram and an airport card too. The system of my dreams. Apple gave me an estimated delivery date of July 9th. I was so excited, I went out and bought an Alchemy TV card(for the mac only), a Kensington wireless mouse, and I even rushed delivered my dvi cable so it would be here in time, the 9th came and went, no word from Apple. I go to my order status page and it seems the delivery date has been pushed back till the 26th. I need this computer for work, so at the very least an email before the 9th would have been nice to say that they were having problems and perhaps offered me a chance to change my order to a stock config or some other method of expediting my order. Nothing. So eventually I have to call them to find out what is going on. They tell me that they are having production problems and that my computer will be shipped out on the 21st at the earliest. Afraid that if the computer is delayed any further I won't be able to do my job, I call up the developer connection and ask that if I decide to cancel my order, would I be able to get my $99 back. The woman says she will have to check and will email me back with an answer. I get an email today saying that they canceled my order, something I never asked them to do in the first place.
I am 23 years old and was planning on buying a lot of Apple products in my lifetime. Not now, I will never buy another Apple product as long as I live. Apple lost a lifelong customer because of very shoddy customer service. I hope they are happy, I know I will be with my dual opteron system I put together at newegg.com!

 

[Danrose1977]

So you had a few delivery problems.... Boo Hoo

If you are going to start crying over something as small as that then the community is probably better off without you...

Goodbye

 

[yamabushi]

Sorry you had a bad experience. Being a recent switcher, you may have been unaware of the shipping delays that are common with Apple. The confusion with customer service also does not surprise me. If you need a computer right away then you could try asking what units are available for immediate shipment. You probably could have received an older refurbished model much sooner at slightly lower price and upgraded the graphics card later if neccesary. I don't mean to imply that the situation is in any way your fault - it is clearly Apple's fault. I just think we all have to accept slow deliveries as normal for Apple until they get their act together. Please feel free to give them a piece of your mind however. They usually will bend over backwards to please developers once they realize they screwed up. I understand that it is really too late but you never know, they might offer you an acceptable solution.

 

[arf]

Grow up

OK, so you've had poor customer service and that's never good, but surely the reasons that made you buy a mac in the first place still hold? I'm sorry for you that the machine is taking a while to come but stop being such a drama queen and play with your iBook until the G5 comes....

 

[Balin64]

Ummmm...

I have no sympathy for you. Okay, I'm sorry, I truly am: you are stuck using Windows (or Linux if you're lucky) for the rest of your life. I would have been a little more patient with Apple and receive a better product; besides, why are YOU buying a work machine? Tell your employer what you need and they will get it for you. I'm just a lowly graphics guy but my employer bends over backwards for me: do you know how much it would cost them if they farmed out all the work I do? That's why I get away with so much stuff at work... they love me and I love the fact they do.

It sucks they canceled your order. At least call Apple and keep getting transfered to someone higher up: they'll do that, until you reach the main customer support manager for the night: they have "magical" powers and have fixed many a situation for me in the past.

 

[paulypants]

WOW! You sure told Apple you mean business!
I wouldn't want to mess with you!

Hope you enjoy downloading patches and removing
spyware from your windows pc cause you are an
impatient crybaby--have fun....

 

[crenz]

So everyone who has problems with Apple is a crybaby, is it? That kind of attitude freaks me out.

While I love Apple's products, I don't see any reason to believe Apple is really interested in their customers. Their customer service is horrible. What makes the situation bearable here in Germany is non-Apple retailers that offer good service.

 

[yamabushi]

For those who don't know- Apple service outside the U.S. tends to be pretty bad at this time. Hopefully this will improve as Apple expands their international presence.

 

[edesignuk]

So everyone who has problems with Apple is a crybaby, is it? That kind of attitude freaks me out.

While I love Apple's products, I don't see any reason to believe Apple is really interested in their customers. Their customer service is horrible. What makes the situation bearable here in Germany is non-Apple retailers that offer good service.

Ditto. Apple have treated this guy like crap and all you zealots can do is take the piss!? WTF is wrong with all of you, this blind faith in Apple being managed by saints wares thin

w00tmaster-
It's a shame that you won't be getting the G5, it woulda screemed! But I'm sure you dual opteron will kick a fair bit itself!

 

[arf]

no, that's not the point

Ditto. Apple have treated this guy like crap and all you zealots can do is take the piss!? WTF is wrong with all of you, this blind faith in Apple being managed by saints wairs thin

I take your point but I don't think you've taken mine..... Apple customer service can suck at times as it can with any other company. All I'm saying is that it seems like a bit of a knee jerk reaction to me to suddenly decide that there's no way you'd ever want a mac just because of a bad customer service experience, it's about the hardware too right?

 

[edesignuk]

it's about the hardware too right?

Of course it is, but if you experience with a new computer is that the company you're buying from can't even deliver the machine, can't communicate with your etc. Then why would you want to open yourself up to what you can only see as a company that don't give a f**k about their customers, and that you will have a hard time getting support from.

I'm not saying that's how it would be, but as far as w00tmaster is concerned this is his experience, and this is what he will base his decisions on. Having everyone tell him to stop moaning and grow up isn't going to help the situation at all, now he just thinks the Apple community are all a bunch of stuck up Apple loving freaks!

 

[iGav]

Apple, like any other company seems to have polar opposites when it comes with dealing with it's consumer base.

Occasionally they're very, very poor and other times they're the whiz-biz almost to freaky preemptive levels. But it's no different to any other company whether it be Sony, Dell, VW or BMW, poor service exists and in these situations you have to make a formal complaint to these companies. How else are they supposed to improve their levels of service unless they get consumer feedback when things do go wrong??.

I do hope that you take the time to write a thorough complaints letter to Apple (By not complaining you're in essence letting them get away with it and that would be an injustice), stating the issues encountered and the persons you dealt with and how disappointed you are. Always get peoples names when dealing with problems, that way in a company of Apple's size it's easier for them to do an internal investigation and track the specific employees down.

As for you experience, it doesn't seem serious enough to warrant such a melodramtic statement as "I will never buy another Apple product as long as I live." but each to their own of course. I've experienced much worse service from Apple than what you have had... (my problems with Apple have been well documented on this site) but I've also experienced the pinnacle of perfection as well. I'm not going to let a negative encounter tarnish what is otherwise a fantastic user experience that I have with their products on a daily basis in both my professional and personal life.

As my old boss said in an issue of CR magazine.

We love Apple, often despite our better judgement. They still display a frustratingly aloof arrogance, wrapped up in the warmth of an attractive, friendly looking package. But then as a colleague remarked only this week, the alternative, with its inherent stupidity and indifference towards real innovation, is still a far, far worse option.

I can only but agree.

Goodluck with you new machine and job though.

 

[iGav]

but as far as w00tmaster is concerned this is his experience, and this is what he will base his decisions on.

But it's not his only experience of Apple. He himself waxed rhapsodic and "evangelized how wonderful Apple is" and it's products and staff were.

Yet with one unfortunate encounter he's given up totally and switched platforms. That's being abit fickle really isn't it.

But if he's happy with his new machine, then that's cool. I just hope that he doesn't miss the opportunity to make the effort to complain to Apple in the hope that such service will be if not totally eradicated in the furture then atleast it'll become a more rare experience.

 

[edesignuk]

Yet with one unfortunate encounter he's given up totally and switched platforms. That's being abit fickle really isn't it.

Very true, I think just got a bit carried away

 

[iGav]

Very true, I think just got a bit carried away

<begin scouse accent> calm down... calm down<end scouse accent>

heheheh.

 

[edesignuk]

<begin scouse accent> calm down... calm down<end scouse accent>

heheheh.

<begin east london accent>You ain't seen me right<end east london accent>

 

[qubex]

To all of you whose opinion amounted to "Shut up, crybaby" I can say only one thing: "shut up, insensitive morons!"

Look: Apple unilaterally canceled his order! That is pretty much the worst level of disservice you can expect in any area of purchasing. What is he supposed to do, sit down and wait through the whole bloody asinine process again?! So, sure, you lot may have been willing to wait it out while the work ticks on by: he was clearly in a hurry (what is the point of even buying a dual G5 if you aren't in a hurry?!) and the continual delays, culminating in an "accidental" cancelling of his order, is pretty much the worst thing that could have happened. I suggest you all think it through.

I love my Apple computers. My girlfriend and I have acquired a grand total of five (two desktops, three laptops) in less than 18 months. I'm converting my friends and creating my own little "Apple Universe Bubble". But despite their computers being excellent, I find that as a company - especially when it comes to dealing directly with customers - Apple can be pretty damned infuriating. Worse, in fact, than IBM - my previous purveyor of PowerPC hardware. Compared to Apple, what Big Blue lacked in style it certainly makes up in customer care. (I switched because of OSX, and that is basically the only reason.)

So I have to say I understand the original poster, and he certainly has a damned good reason to be infuriated. Personally, I hope he'll reconsider his decision to never deal with Apple again because - hell - they make damned good computers and he could be missing out a lot of fun. But whatever lies in the future, at present he has nothing to show for his efforts but an iBook, a cancelled order, and (maybe?) a $99 refund. So he sure as hell has a reason to be pissed.

I hope you write them a stiff letter on a piece of cardboard. If it were me, I'd be on the 'phone demanding to speak to a manager and loudly give him a piece of his mind concerning the staff and processes he manages. The end result would probably be that you'd get yourself a letter of apology and the system delivered within the previously estimated delivery date.

However, of course, the decision is yours.

 

[flyfish29]

Sorry to hear you had problems, the PC world doesn't ever have any issues like this!?!?

anyway, what is up with ordering two iBooks by accident? Do you think any of these "delivery" problems and issues with Apple are a result of your mistake(s)? Just wondering, cause I would think it would be difficult to order two ibooks since the price would not be $1300ish but $2600. I guess if someone didn't check the final price of what they were buying it could be done.

Again, I am sorry you have given up on the world of Mac...don't cancel your macrumors membership cause if this is the way you react to a few issues then we will see you back shortly after your short lived PC experience.

 

[mpopkin]

that really is a very small deal, but it is not Apple's loss that you are switching back to pc, it is your loss. Welcome back instability, viruses, popups spyware etc and welcome back the blue screen of death(yes you can get it on xp too) I was a switcher several years back( even though my first computer was a performa) and i have not looked back, yes apple has shipping problems, but their customer service has never ever treated me badly, so on that account i think that you need to restate that " I thought their customer service treated me rudely or something along those lines" because i have had nothing but good experiences with apple customer service even when they tell me that oops your g4 tower wont be shipping until january when you ordered it in august. with apple it is always about supply.

bad decisions are born out of anger, take a breath and think about what you are doing,

17 days ago I ordered what I considered to be the system of my dreams. Now I am officially through with Apple. I became a mac fan after needing a new laptop, and I figure I would give Apple a look. I fell in love with the iBook, and although I had some difficulty when I ordered it(I was overseas in Japan and accidentaly ordered 2 iBooks. I was either sleeping or at work while the phones were open, so I sent an email, ended up getting both shipped, cost me $20, but I was still happy), but after I held the iBook in my hands I became an instant fan. I even went to the Ginza store to look around and got my picture taken with a cute employee there and set it as my desktop. I evangelized how wonderful Apple is to my friends and family.
I got a job this summer doing bioinformatics progamming at my university. The iBook just wasn't going to cut it, so I decided that with what little money I have, I would splurge on a fancy new dual 1.8Ghz G5. So after I get everything in order, I sign up for the Apple developer program. I try to order, but it doesn't seem like I can use my loan. I call up Apple, and everything just went downhill from there. They told me on the phone that I couldn't use my loan at the dev store. So I had to wait till the next day to call the dev people who told me that I could, I just had to use the line where it said business loan or something along those lines. So I figure I really want to play Doom 3 when it comes out, so I should really upgrade the video card to a 9600XT, it was only $40 more, and I added a bit more ram and an airport card too. The system of my dreams. Apple gave me an estimated delivery date of July 9th. I was so excited, I went out and bought an Alchemy TV card(for the mac only), a Kensington wireless mouse, and I even rushed delivered my dvi cable so it would be here in time, the 9th came and went, no word from Apple. I go to my order status page and it seems the delivery date has been pushed back till the 26th. I need this computer for work, so at the very least an email before the 9th would have been nice to say that they were having problems and perhaps offered me a chance to change my order to a stock config or some other method of expediting my order. Nothing. So eventually I have to call them to find out what is going on. They tell me that they are having production problems and that my computer will be shipped out on the 21st at the earliest. Afraid that if the computer is delayed any further I won't be able to do my job, I call up the developer connection and ask that if I decide to cancel my order, would I be able to get my $99 back. The woman says she will have to check and will email me back with an answer. I get an email today saying that they canceled my order, something I never asked them to do in the first place.
I am 23 years old and was planning on buying a lot of Apple products in my lifetime. Not now, I will never buy another Apple product as long as I live. Apple lost a lifelong customer because of very shoddy customer service. I hope they are happy, I know I will be with my dual opteron system I put together at newegg.com!

 

[M. Johansson]

When purchasing my brothers iBook, I came to the following conclusion about Apple:

Using Apple Hardware: Like having sex with a beautiful woman.

Ordering said hardware: Like sitting down at high velocity on a cactus.

 

[OziMac]

Hmm. Interesting way of putting it

 

[jsw]

Tell your employer what you need and they will get it for you. I'm just a lowly graphics guy but my employer bends over backwards for me....

To quote w00tmaster:

I got a job this summer doing bioinformatics progamming at my university.

The guys a student. Which means: (a) his employer isn't going to buy him a computer, and (b) since it was to be for a summer job, getting it late removes the original reason for getting it at all.

Yes, I know Apple's delivery dates are fiction. But he has a point - a few of them, actually.

(1) Apple can't stand by its delivery dates. Yes, they do often deliver on time, but their late deliveries are legendary.

(2) Apple customer service botched this completely. Completely.

(3) The loan info was messed up, causing some delays to him.

Basically, he wanted to join the developer program - which seems well justified by his work - and wanted a system to use for the bulk of the summer. Apple failed to deliver it. Should he boycott Apple for life? His decision. But I've never bought again from a number of companies that have screwed me over. That's not to say that I always or even usually decide to stop buying from someone - just that, if I get annoyed enough, that's my final resort. OS X rules. But Windows XP isn't bad, either. PCs aren't bad.

I think too many here get so caught up in things that they feel a personal loyalty to Apple and a need to attack anyone who wants to go elsewhere. That's just wrong, in my opinion.

I use OS X because I love it. I use Macs because they use OS X. I won't switch because I prefer OS X to XP.

But...

I don't think everyone who uses Windows is a dumb sheep. For many, it is simply a more practical decision.

I don't owe Apple any loyalty. Apple has no idea who I am. Apple is a company, not a person, and they are in this to make a profit. They don't make Macs to make me happy.

I am loyal to the Mac development community. I am loyal to certain employees of Apple that I've come to know. I am loyal to fellow Mac users.

I want Apple to succeed for one reason: I want OS X to thrive.

I've had my share of bad customer service from Apple. No more or less than I've gotten dealing with Dell for work systems. I tend more often to talk to someone I can understand easily when I call Apple, but I don't get bad info less often, nor do I get great assistance more. Apple customer service doesn't suck. It just isn't magically great, either. Some of the people really care. Some don't care at all. Just like any other large company. And most small ones. But I've had experiences with Apple customer service which certainly angered me, and, in a different situation, I could have seen deciding to make my next purchase a Wintel box instead of the G5 I bought.

Apple's hardware isn't exactly awe-inspiring. I love it. I love my G5. Love it. But... if you could buy OS X on a Wintel-type box ("real" OS X, not PearPC or whatever), a lot of people wouldn't spend the extra on Macs.

I love what I can do on my Macs, and that's why I use them. But, if Apple mucks up the next OS, or if MS or Sun or the Linux community or whomever comes out with a better OS - one I see as appreciably better for me - I'll switch in a minute.

So, for me, it's hard to see why someone would get scolded for deciding not to use a product, when there are alternatives available, and when that company's customer service department has done some a poor job of dealing with him. Why are people so loyal to Apple, a company that doesn't know them? It's like sports fans who get genuinely upset when someone roots for another team.

w00tmaster got screwed over. If his story had been about Dell or HP or Alienware, and he'd decided to buy a Mac, no one would have jumped on him. I am tired of the "Apple can do no wrong" advocates. Apple does a lot of wrong, and they do a lot of right. But they don't care personally about anyone in this forum. They care about us as a group, and only to the extent that we buy their products. This doesn't make them evil. It makes them a business.

 

[w00tmaster]

that really is a very small deal, but it is not Apple's loss that you are switching back to pc, it is your loss. Welcome back instability, viruses, popups spyware etc and welcome back the blue screen of death(yes you can get it on xp too) I was a switcher several years back( even though my first computer was a performa) and i have not looked back, yes apple has shipping problems, but their customer service has never ever treated me badly, so on that account i think that you need to restate that " I thought their customer service treated me rudely or something along those lines" because i have had nothing but good experiences with apple customer service even when they tell me that oops your g4 tower wont be shipping until january when you ordered it in august. with apple it is always about supply.

bad decisions are born out of anger, take a breath and think about what you are doing,

Um, last time I checked Apple was in the business of making money. I fail to see how it is not their loss. As for your other points, Gentoo has none of those problems, so I'm not sure where you are going with that.

 

[jsw]

When purchasing my brothers iBook, I came to the following conclusion about Apple:

Using Apple Hardware: Like having sex with a beautiful woman.

Ordering said hardware: Like sitting down at high velocity on a cactus.

Well put!

I get upset at Apple because I think a lot more people would enjoy the experience of using a Mac - and for me it is primarily software and the OS that does it, not so much the hardware - if Apple would just do a few things better. I want everyone to have a Mac (well, with the exception that there'd be viruses then, so change that to "everyone I know"). Not because I'm loyal to Apple, but because, right now, I think they've got - by far - the best OS out there, and I want people to experience it. I want Apple to make getting a Mac, and dealing with problems on it, easier or at least more predictable. That's all.

 

[edesignuk]

w00tmaster got screwed over. If his story had been about Dell or HP or Alienware, and he'd decided to buy a Mac, no one would have jumped on him. I am tired of the "Apple can do no wrong" advocates. Apple does a lot of wrong, and they do a lot of right. But they don't care personally about anyone in this forum. They care about us as a group, and only to the extent that we buy their products. This doesn't make them evil. It makes them a business.

JSW-
God that's good to hear, finally someone who has my kind of thinking