Why I love Final Cut Pro X

[LethalWolfe]

It's not Hollywood standard, but neither is premiere and Fincher just cut Gone Girl using Adobe.

From casual observation (and job postings) PPro is gaining ground/acceptance much faster than X in the Los Angeles area though Avid and FCP 7 are still the most widely used.

Most of us moved over back in 2011.

Who is "us"? Many people, including myself, think the migration away from FCP 7 is going surprisingly slow.

Now if your worried you wont get a job using it, then dont blame the app.

Its your talent that should shine.

Pro houses dont hire button pushers.

If your experienced in one NLE (and have a great demo), you can learn the basics overnight in another.

This really depends on the situation. Some jobs have the time for on the job training while others expect you to slip seamlessly into an existing project/workflow w/o missing a beat.

 

[mBox]

Most of us meaning the ones that hang at Creative Cow IMHO.

I dont think its slow at all.

Ive been teaching FCP since 2003 and started FCPX 2011 Fall.

Since then, Ive had close to 30 students from my past classes come in for a refresh and equals the new ones (that part worries me of course).


Well if your a one man shop and just starting, why start at FCP legacy?

I for one believe that at 300 USD, FCPX is the best bang for the buck and add Resolve 11 Lite, I cant see anyone having a hard time starting up in this day of age.

My first foray into editing on my own cost me close to 40K.

Thanks to media100, Canon XL-1 and a G4

 

[LethalWolfe]

Most of us meaning the ones that hang at Creative Cow IMHO.

We must hang in different pastures. In the FCP or Not area most people thought FCP 7 would have a much more sudden drop in user base. Not as sudden as Color (which pretty much fell into oblivion over night) but so many people still using 7, to me, is surprising since the last update of note was in 2007. FCP Legacy is proving to have legs like Shake.

Well if your a one man shop and just starting, why start at FCP legacy?

I wasn't suggesting to start with legacy, just that in major markets in the US FCP 7 is still widely used. For younger editors trying to break into major markets it's a bit of a sticky wicket since so many places still use 7 but investing the time to learn 7 at this point isn't a good ROI. Learning X, Avid or PPro is much more valuable over the long term, but which one(s) to learn depends on the situation.

 

[dopeman]

Ho hummm standards
If we all stuck to that we'd be only shooting with Sony Beta/XDCAM

http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/new...irst-hollywood-feature-cut-on-final-cut-pro-x

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Most of us moved over back in 2011.

Sure we still have FCP7 on a diff boot drive but IMHO, that app is dead.

Now if your worried you wont get a job using it, then dont blame the app.

Its your talent that should shine.

Pro houses dont hire button pushers.

If your experienced in one NLE (and have a great demo), you can learn the basics overnight in another.

you're right

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Most of us meaning the ones that hang at Creative Cow IMHO.

I dont think its slow at all.

Ive been teaching FCP since 2003 and started FCPX 2011 Fall.

Since then, Ive had close to 30 students from my past classes come in for a refresh and equals the new ones (that part worries me of course).


Well if your a one man shop and just starting, why start at FCP legacy?

I for one believe that at 300 USD, FCPX is the best bang for the buck and add Resolve 11 Lite, I cant see anyone having a hard time starting up in this day of age.

My first foray into editing on my own cost me close to 40K.

Thanks to media100, Canon XL-1 and a G4

good point...and yes i'm on it...on FCP X

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Do you agree...one of the well known editor advisor or something....was talking about whether FCP X is for professional...he said that it doesn't matter as long as you can get the job done effectively and fast (or on time).
what say you guys? It's not in exact wordings...but the concept of it is.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Do you agree...one of the well known editor advisor or something....was talking about whether FCP X is for professional...he said that it doesn't matter as long as you can get the job done effectively and fast (or on time).
what say you guys? It's not in exact wordings...but the concept of it is.

It really depends on the situation. If you are a one man band and you are only delivering a finished product to a client then, yes, you can use whatever you want as long as it gets the job done for you. If you are working as part of a team and you have to deliver not only a finished video but also other deliverables to a Network (project files, EDLs, etc.,) then you might have to choose an NLE that already fits into their established workflows. If you are a freelance editor that works with teams of other editors and/or hops in and out of productions that are already established then you absolutely have to use the NLE that's already in use.

For example, the last three gigs I had were for projects that already had established workflows which meant I had to use FCP 7 on one gig, Avid MC on another gig and Premiere Pro on yet another gig.

 

[dopeman]

It really depends on the situation. If you are a one man band and you are only delivering a finished product to a client then, yes, you can use whatever you want as long as it gets the job done for you. If you are working as part of a team and you have to deliver not only a finished video but also other deliverables to a Network (project files, EDLs, etc.,) then you might have to choose an NLE that already fits into their established workflows. If you are a freelance editor that works with teams of other editors and/or hops in and out of productions that are already established then you absolutely have to use the NLE that's already in use.

For example, the last three gigs I had were for projects that already had established workflows which meant I had to use FCP 7 on one gig, Avid MC on another gig and Premiere Pro on yet another gig.

well that makes sense. As I was wondering why the debates between "x" and "7" were big....workflow...

I wonder what the majority of film industries/media or any kind use...i guess it really doesn't matter as long as the project can be delivered.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I wonder what the majority of film industries/media or any kind use...i guess it really doesn't matter as long as the project can be delivered.

The majority of Hollywood movies and TV shows on broadcast or cable TV in the U.S. are cut on Avid MC. FCP 7 would be a distant #2 on the list.

 

[dopeman]

The majority of Hollywood movies and TV shows on broadcast or cable TV in the U.S. are cut on Avid MC. FCP 7 would be a distant #2 on the list.

and not on FCP x?

 

[LethalWolfe]

and not on FCP x?

I'd put Premiere Pro a distant 3rd behind FCP 7 and FCP X a distant fourth behind Premiere Pro.

 

[dopeman]

I'd put Premiere Pro a distant 3rd behind FCP 7 and FCP X a distant fourth behind Premiere Pro.

out of curiosity, what do you use if you don't mind asking.

 

[Digital Skunk]

out of curiosity, what do you use if you don't mind asking.

Like a lot of freelance editors, LethalWolf has access to a number of NLEs. I worked with a team that still used Media100 and at times I cut for a local broadcast station that uses Grass Valley Edius 6. The later works well because everything is GV from the switcher to the network storage.


Now, personally I am a Premiere kind of guy. With Avid only taking a back seat because as a one man band if I need to use After Effects or Photoshop compositions then I can easily drop them into and out of Premiere.

 

[mBox]

I just find it silly with the negative attitude towards learning.

Heck I have three Avid MC dongles, a slew of Adobe CC licenses, Resolve 11 dongle (I guess their calling it an NLE now) and 1 single FCPX tied to my personal iTunes account.

If you cant afford any of the other options then why not learn one thats attainable.

In the end the craft of editing is done using resources and not really determined by the size of the stick used.

Do I love FPCPX?

Its a love and hate thing but if I only had $300, you cant go wrong.

Well you could just download R11 Lite and learn to edit with that

 

[handsome pete]

I'd put Premiere Pro a distant 3rd behind FCP 7 and FCP X a distant fourth behind Premiere Pro.

Yeah, I'd agree with that hierarchy.


I think a lot of people irrationally proclaimed everyone was quickly jumping ship to Premiere or Avid, but in reality FCP7 still has some staying power. Granted, it is long in the tooth, but people forget that change doesn't come quickly when you have a proven and reliable infrastructure already up and running.

That being said, I have personally witnessed a couple of places I used to do work for switch over to Premiere. I still haven't seen anyone using FCPX yet. Not saying there aren't, but it's certainly got its work cut out for it in becoming an "industry standard." And who knows if it will ever be, and that's not necessarily a bad thing either.

 

[LethalWolfe]

out of curiosity, what do you use if you don't mind asking.

I'm a freelance editor in Los Angeles and mainly work on unscripted/documentary movies and TV shows.

I just find it silly with the negative attitude towards learning.

Where do you see a negative attitude towards learning in the most recent posts? Dopeman was asking about what NLE(s) is most used/standard for 'Hollywood' productions, not which NLE is best or which NLE he should learn.

In a previous post I mentioned using FCP 7, PPro and Avid so far this year so obviously I don't mind learning different apps. Once FCP X starts becoming a viable way for me to make a living I'll learn that too.

That being said, I have personally witnessed a couple of places I used to do work for switch over to Premiere. I still haven't seen anyone using FCPX yet. Not saying there aren't, but it's certainly got its work cut out for it in becoming an "industry standard." And who knows if it will ever be, and that's not necessarily a bad thing either.

Similar observations by me, too. I am seeing more FCP X talk now than I did a year ago but the overall amount is still pretty small.

 

[mBox]

Where do you see a negative attitude towards learning in the most recent posts? Dopeman was asking about what NLE(s) is most used/standard for 'Hollywood' productions, not which NLE is best or which NLE he should learn...

Nope just the general tone Im reading.

But hey Ill retract the word negative and I mean it

I dont work in LA so I cant speak for the ones that dont have that option.

Its common knowledge that Hollywood isnt using FCPX as the norm and why would they. The base infrastructure for years is (was?) Avid with others using Lightworks and etc...

Im old and have gone through the war of words from Apple vs Windows, Max vs Maya, Pepsi vs Fanta, etc...uggh now Im reminiscing

Anyways, yes we get it that FCPX is not the defacto tool.
Its not even that at my work place and at home.
But its def more bang for the buck, just ask guys like Michael Cioni from Light Iron.

 

[handsome pete]

But its def more bang for the buck, just ask guys like Michael Cioni from Light Iron.

Agreed, on an overall cost standpoint it can't be beat. And that's a great thing for anyone trying to learn.

However, I'd probably suggest to anyone getting into this stuff (with aspirations of a career in it) to go the Adobe route if they can afford it. I'm not a big fan of the subscription model, but considering you get additional tools like After Effects and Photoshop in the deal (not to mention the rest of the suite), then that is much more valuable in my opinion.

 

[v3rlon]

Use what works for you.

I was at a seminar that had nothing to do with Apple but a lot to do with video editing. The presenter pointed out that most NLEs were made to basically emulate the experience of working with film because that is what most editors knew when the digital ones came into being. They have continued to evolve that workflow, and many of the names of the tools we use are derived from that.

Then, he asked "How many of you have ever edited film?" Fully half of the 300 people present raised their hands (I was kind of surprised).

He followed with "How many of you liked it?" And suddenly there were no hands in the air.

FCPX was a step closer to taking advantage of the computer and further away from pretending there were filmstrips to be edited inside the system. There are people who simply cannot stand that. There are TV shows and movies being made on FCP X now, and there are houses switching TO it just like there are ones switching away. People change teams for various reasons.

Find the software that works best for you and use it. If it is Adobe, knock yourself out. Avid? Enjoy. FCP X? Perfect. iMovie? Sure, why not. If it does what YOU need, who cares what Spielberg used when filming his masterpiece? He still made 1941 AND Jurassic Park 2, so clearly even he makes mistakes.

Find what works for you. Odds are you will not outgrow FCP X anytime soon. If you do, you will most likely be editing full time, not playing writer/director/producer/cinematographer/caterer/key grip when you do.

 

[maclove4life]

I'm a freelance editor in Los Angeles and mainly work on unscripted/documentary movies and TV shows.



Where do you see a negative attitude towards learning in the most recent posts? Dopeman was asking about what NLE(s) is most used/standard for 'Hollywood' productions, not which NLE is best or which NLE he should learn.

In a previous post I mentioned using FCP 7, PPro and Avid so far this year so obviously I don't mind learning different apps. Once FCP X starts becoming a viable way for me to make a living I'll learn that too.




Similar observations by me, too. I am seeing more FCP X talk now than I did a year ago but the overall amount is still pretty small.

same as me...i'm also looking into something that would be "standard" as well.. sorry i know i'm noob...but heck..i would like to know as well.

 

[maclove4life]

Nope just the general tone Im reading.

But hey Ill retract the word negative and I mean it

I dont work in LA so I cant speak for the ones that dont have that option.

Its common knowledge that Hollywood isnt using FCPX as the norm and why would they. The base infrastructure for years is (was?) Avid with others using Lightworks and etc...

Im old and have gone through the war of words from Apple vs Windows, Max vs Maya, Pepsi vs Fanta, etc...uggh now Im reminiscing

Anyways, yes we get it that FCPX is not the defacto tool.
Its not even that at my work place and at home.
But its def more bang for the buck, just ask guys like Michael Cioni from Light Iron.

nice

 

[handsome pete]

same as me...i'm also looking into something that would be "standard" as well.. sorry i know i'm noob...but heck..i would like to know as well.

The market is much more fragmented now, but Avid is still dominant in that domain. But who knows how long that will last. The software could sure benefit from a rewrite.

So if you're just getting into it all, then use what you can get your hands on. No need to stretch your budget further than necessary. Learn the craft first. Eventually you'll likely have to learn a few or more different software packages, but by then it'll be easier having some knowledge under your belt.

 

[maclove4life]

The market is much more fragmented now, but Avid is still dominant in that domain. But who knows how long that will last. The software could sure benefit from a rewrite.

So if you're just getting into it all, then use what you can get your hands on. No need to stretch your budget further than necessary. Learn the craft first. Eventually you'll likely have to learn a few or more different software packages, but by then it'll be easier having some knowledge under your belt.

you are right...gotta get those editing basics down.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Nope just the general tone Im reading.

I agree that since launch the general tone towards X has been negative though that has changed a lot in the last year or so as X has become more feature filled and more proven out in the wild. The tone will never go away entirely though because, like you mentioned, there will always be a Product X vs Product Y thing going on.

Premiere, IMO, has probably had the most radical transformation as it was always seen as a lesser NLE by both Avid *and* FCP users but in the last few years it's started to gain a lot more acceptance.

same as me...i'm also looking into something that would be "standard" as well.. sorry i know i'm noob...but heck..i would like to know as well.

While it's interesting to know/talk about what Big Film X was cut on, it's kinda like wanting to learn to drive and asking, "So, what kinda car do they use in F1?" It doesn't hurt to know, but a newb, hobbyist or casual user isn't going to find themselves competing in F1.

With that being said, if someone is early on in their career with the goal of editing all day, every day then that person would need to be more mindful of what kind of work they wanted to do, where they wanted to do it and which NLE(s) would best lineup with those goals.

The market is much more fragmented now, but Avid is still dominant in that domain.

And just to expand on this real quick, many times people want to know what's the most used software in 'the industry' but there isn't a monolithic industry. Everything from Hollywood movies to weddings to corporate videos to commercials to webisodes make up the industry and each segment of the industry has its own needs and budgets. A guy making local TV commercials for car dealerships and Steven Spielberg are both in the industry (albiet two very different parts of the industry).

I know the original question was pretty specific (what is standard in Hollywood?) but just because a big, Hollywood movie uses a certain tool doesn't mean that's the best tool to use in all situations.

 

[maclove4life]

I agree that since launch the general tone towards X has been negative though that has changed a lot in the last year or so as X has become more feature filled and more proven out in the wild. The tone will never go away entirely though because, like you mentioned, there will always be a Product X vs Product Y thing going on.

Premiere, IMO, has probably had the most radical transformation as it was always seen as a lesser NLE by both Avid *and* FCP users but in the last few years it's started to gain a lot more acceptance.




While it's interesting to know/talk about what Big Film X was cut on, it's kinda like wanting to learn to drive and asking, "So, what kinda car do they use in F1?" It doesn't hurt to know, but a newb, hobbyist or casual user isn't going to find themselves competing in F1.

With that being said, if someone is early on in their career with the goal of editing all day, every day then that person would need to be more mindful of what kind of work they wanted to do, where they wanted to do it and which NLE(s) would best lineup with those goals.


And just to expand on this real quick, many times people want to know what's the most used software in 'the industry' but there isn't a monolithic industry. Everything from Hollywood movies to weddings to corporate videos to commercials to webisodes make up the industry and each segment of the industry has its own needs and budgets. A guy making local TV commercials for car dealerships and Steven Spielberg are both in the industry (albiet two very different parts of the industry).

I know the original question was pretty specific (what is standard in Hollywood?) but just because a big, Hollywood movie uses a certain tool doesn't mean that's the best tool to use in all situations.

This. at the same time i feel like i want differentiate myself from hobbyist.

 

[LethalWolfe]

This. at the same time i feel like i want differentiate myself from hobbyist.

Differentiating yourself is more in line with the quality of your work and creative problem solving. With the cost of gear being so inexpensive it's not uncommon for hobbyists/enthusiasts and professionals to have the same gear. For example, starting in 2006 or 2007 it seemed like everyone and their brother had a copy of the Final Cut suite and it was being used on everything from birthday videos to Hollywood feature films.

Many times where people start branching off with different software choices is when they have reoccurring needs and they pick the software that best meets those needs. For example, it's common for me to be in a situation where I'm working alongside 7 or 8 other editors on a project and we are using Avid because Avid right now is the best when it comes to a multi-editor, shared storage environment.

Many years ago (when FCP by itself cost $1000) I was using iDVD to make DVDs for clients but the options were so limited that I had to look up online how to hack some text files inside iDVD so I could use things like custom buttons I'd made in Photoshop. DVD SP didn't exist at the time so my options were iDVD or spend $25,000 on 'Hollywood grade' software and hardware that was way overkill for my needs. When DVD SP came out I picked it up because it didn't break the bank and I'd far outgrown iDVD.

I guess my point is I used creative problem solving to get much more professional looking results out of a consumer application (iDVD) and didn't upgrade to more advanced software until 1. I'd outgrown my current solution and 2. It made financial sense to upgrade.

 

[maclove4life]

Differentiating yourself is more in line with the quality of your work and creative problem solving. With the cost of gear being so inexpensive it's not uncommon for hobbyists/enthusiasts and professionals to have the same gear. For example, starting in 2006 or 2007 it seemed like everyone and their brother had a copy of the Final Cut suite and it was being used on everything from birthday videos to Hollywood feature films.

Many times where people start branching off with different software choices is when they have reoccurring needs and they pick the software that best meets those needs. For example, it's common for me to be in a situation where I'm working alongside 7 or 8 other editors on a project and we are using Avid because Avid right now is the best when it comes to a multi-editor, shared storage environment.

Many years ago (when FCP by itself cost $1000) I was using iDVD to make DVDs for clients but the options were so limited that I had to look up online how to hack some text files inside iDVD so I could use things like custom buttons I'd made in Photoshop. DVD SP didn't exist at the time so my options were iDVD or spend $25,000 on 'Hollywood grade' software and hardware that was way overkill for my needs. When DVD SP came out I picked it up because it didn't break the bank and I'd far outgrown iDVD.

I guess my point is I used creative problem solving to get much more professional looking results out of a consumer application (iDVD) and didn't upgrade to more advanced software until 1. I'd outgrown my current solution and 2. It made financial sense to upgrade.

I gotta hand it to you and other professionals on this forum...got my respect for "putting in work."
I know i gotta work with it..so i just got me FCP x and run with it...let's see how far i can go and move on from there.
Different tools for different folks...but i just hope (in the future whom i work with) would be compatible or use FCP X....
hopefully hollywood...because i really want to make movies...but i want to make sure i get the basics of using these tools.