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Mattie Num Nums

macrumors 68030
Mar 5, 2009
2,834
0
USA
I presume you've asked this other 80% you're on about?

Most rich people I know (I work with actors and actresses on a daily basis) are tightwads. Just because you buy a huge house doesn't mean you need to drive a Ferrari. Look at Steve Jobs for example he drives a nice Mercedes but it not an SLR.

Edit. Fizz that was directed at haoqfu
 

darrellishere

macrumors 6502
Jul 13, 2007
337
0
The air throws away old notions of a computer.

It some how has redesigned what I expect in a laptop, I think its a game changer!

Thin light weight, more toy like, fun to use and using one make you feel like a million-air! ;)

One day soon all laptops will be like the Air!:D
 

snowboarder

macrumors 6502a
Jun 9, 2007
538
1,998
I have tried to buy one since they came up.
First revision was a joke, could only cook some eggs on it, not much more.
2nd revision was quite good, but I was expecting the quick update
to 4GB RAM and a larger SSD so I waited.
Now I took another look at it. Spent some time in an Apple store 2 days ago
and to be honest, scratched it from my wish list completely.
 

hodgeheg

macrumors regular
Dec 7, 2008
156
0
obviously you are not getting my point, besides i have never had any problem with display nor the hinge. the display on my rev B was perfect, actually it was the best display i've ever got on a mac.

my point is lots of ppl bashing here are not b/c of the building quality of mba, but they thought it's overpriced for minor problems like lower spec, only one usb, slow charging.

Then indeed I missed your point - apologies - it seemed like a long time since I'd read that particular "It's over priced/under-powered" complaint, which I agree is daft given that no competitor makes a 13" screen 1.3kg laptop with that much battery life that is as cheap. It is solely the quality I'm complaining about. Given a perfect Air I've no doubt it would have to be pried from my cold dead hands, but it's just not proved possible for me to get one! I'm really glad you did though!
 

darrellishere

macrumors 6502
Jul 13, 2007
337
0
It depends on what you want. I have a great desktop system, so the air is just the extra amazing mac toy for around the house and on days out in the park.

The point that everyones forgetting with the air is its supper light and thin! Its not designed to be a sole computer that ticks everyones boxes. Its bespoke, individual and tailored to those who appreciate form over function LOL!
 

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haoqfu

Cancelled
Aug 29, 2006
241
0
Then indeed I missed your point - apologies - it seemed like a long time since I'd read that particular "It's over priced/under-powered" complaint, which I agree is daft given that no competitor makes a 13" screen 1.3kg laptop with that much battery life that is as cheap. It is solely the quality I'm complaining about. Given a perfect Air I've no doubt it would have to be pried from my cold dead hands, but it's just not proved possible for me to get one! I'm really glad you did though!

thx, i didn't suffer those quality problem as most here ppl do here. i totally understand if ppl were just complaining about the building quality, especially the hinge problem. customers absolutely deserve good quality products no matter how much they pay.
 

darrellishere

macrumors 6502
Jul 13, 2007
337
0
apple products are really easy to break! I remember snapping the screen off my T-i Book pushing the screen back LOL!

You have to treat the air like a baby otherwise it will break. Heavy handed-ness dose not go well with its fragility.
 

Gruber

macrumors regular
Jun 15, 2009
108
19
You have to treat the air like a baby otherwise it will break. Heavy handed-ness dose not go well with its fragility.

That is not true for Apple products in general, and the resale-value reflects that. There are still many 12" powerbooks around (sniff). And many Air customers claim that the hinge did not break due to rough handling. (I think that it is forgivable if a new design has initial flaws, and Apple seems to be replacing most of the affected devices.)
 

haoqfu

Cancelled
Aug 29, 2006
241
0
You mean other than Lenovo, right?

no intention to start another argument, but lenovo is ****... thinkpad quality has gone down the drain ever since lenovo took it over. lenovo stopped paying the japanese lab to do the industrial design for thinkpad, and outsourced to a much cheaper team. you can tell the difference of design w/o even taking it apart...

no idea about its latest X series, x41 was the last x series i've used.
 

hodgeheg

macrumors regular
Dec 7, 2008
156
0
You mean other than Lenovo, right?

Lenovo might now. I haven't checked recently to be honest, but last time I *did* check, which wasn't *that* long ago, none of Lenovo's offerings were as powerful, even at max spec, and the prices were higher even when going for lower spec (screen excluded, if you find 1440x900 appealing). I imagine lenovo have improved since then, but then again so have both the price and spec of the Air.

Don't get me wrong, there's all sorts of possible advantages to the X300 etc, but *when I last checked* it was not even close to comparable in CPU. It was the specific combination of price+power+battery life+weight that I hadn't seen anywhere else.

If this is no longer the case, then obviously I'm not going to argue the point if the facts are against me! However on a quick search I can't find a comparable lenovo (i.e. comparable in all those ways) - for example the X301 is substantially more expensive than the Air and appears to top out at a 1.4GHz ULV Core 2 Duo with 3MB cache, which is hardly comparable to the 2.13GHz Air with 6MB cache or even the 1.6GHz Rev B that I had, though they do offer 4GB RAM and more ports etc - it depends what you want it for. I also had the Adamo in mind, which manages to be heavier than a MacBook but slower than an Air, and more expensive, etc. Or again, at least it did last time I checked.

As for Lenovo's quality... I had a brand new T61 shortly before I bought my Air. It was vastly more powerful in terms of CPU etc, and ran dog slow by comparison. This is not even Microsoft's fault, afaict, by the way... a clean vista install fixed pretty much everything, but using Lenovo's install was just hideous. Aside from the fact their joyous security software managed to encrypt a load of my files with a username and password that didn't exist on the machine and which I never found (and it did this silently - I only realised when I attempted to restore from a backup), when I removed Lenovo's "helpful" wireless management front end I found that the time from power-on to full-desktop+connected to wireless dropped by 8 minutes. Yes, 8 minutes. That's how bad it was beforehand. It also had a buzzing backlight, and for all its obvious solidity I hated the keyboard.

One thing though, its hinges felt like they'd withstand a nuclear blast, whereas the Air's failed to last 3 months of light babying usage without developing 1 inch plus free play, thus wobbling around enough to make it unusable on a train for example.

I realise this isn't necessarily *standard*, and I don't think all Airs are like that (though there's no shortage of people unhappy with the hinges), but the ludicrous thing was that it was *Apple* who told me that all Airs *are* like that. They even insisted that they are like that new, despite my protestations that this couldn't be the case because my own hadn't been, and that it was intentional design hence they couldn't do anything about it. They stated point blank that it was not only impossible to tighten the hinges, but unnecessary. This was actually one of the least awful parts of my full customer service experience with my Air. Thus my problem is less with the Air (which in theory is my dream computer) than with Apple. By the way, I did write a complaint - they didn't even reply.

Thankfully (famous last words) my luck seems to have changed with the Toshiba I replaced the Air with. It's ace. But I watch the Air with interest. If they do something about the hinges and the screen lines on a future revision, and if I read fewer customer service horror stories, I *may* try again some day, though I would never buy from an Apple Store again.
 

kingtj

macrumors 68030
Oct 23, 2003
2,606
749
Brunswick, MD
Personally, I think the "Air" is what it is .....

I took a good look at the Air, but it wasn't really for me. I've always owned at least 2 desktop systems that I use as my "primary" computers for gaming, Internet, photo storage and editing, music, etc. Then I've always tried to own as powerful a portable as possible to compliment them. In the past, I've taken my notebooks to LAN gaming parties, where I attached an external LCD display and mouse, as well as to hotels on vacation or business trips, and occasionally take it back and forth to my day job, so I can update our corporate web sites with it and the like. (I like the web tools I have on my Macs better than what we've got to work with in Windows at work.)

I'd never "bash" the Air. It's great for what it's for.... sort of a remote extension to a primary computer. (Lots of people wind up using their laptop primarily around the house, so they can watch a movie on it in bed, surf the web from their back porch or couch, etc. The Air seems well suited to those tasks. It's probably also fine for the person who travels a lot, and wants Apple quality in something as thin and light-weight as possible.)

Price *always* counts for something, but someone only attacking the product because they think it costs too much? That's usually going to be someone who isn't in the product's target market in the first place. They're likely the type who *really* wants a notebook as small and cheap as possible, regardless of quality and features. They're buying things like the $500 Asus or Dell netbooks, and saying "I'd consider the Air too, if it was in that same price range." Well, no kidding they would! They'd be getting a LOT more for their $500. But that's beside the point.



I have to agree that a lot of bashing does come because of price.

Also I've noticed pretty much every basher does not own one. It seems like the people who own it really really love it and they've bought it because they want it for internet, email, general use.

Some people have naturally bought it for looks (I've been tempted but I know its not for me I need a mac pro :/) only to be disappointed when it doesn't play the latest and greatest games at full settings but that's on them for not doing research.

Glad to hear you are happy with your purchase OP. I can't wait to see an Air in real life :)
 

entatlrg

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Mar 2, 2009
3,385
6
Waterloo & Georgian Bay, Canada
Let's get this out of the way first: The Air is a nice machine. Sleek, well-built (despite the hinge problem), and well-specced (despite the lack of RAM). More than ample power for Office work, Photoshopping and occassional coding. Great keyboard, and decent screen (Mushy, coarse, and unevenly lit compared to the Vaio TT, but so what). And it is cheaper than the immediate competition (Vaio TT, Dell Adamo, Lenovo). And it runs MacOS...

The Air is just not what I need. I need an ultraportable machine to work with. I want it to run MacOS, because I do not want to be bothered with Anti-Virus software, annoying Vista behaviors and updates every other day. I do not want to make compromises: my computer needs to be as light as reasonably possible, should run as long as possible without recharging, should not lag during starting programs, switching applications etc. It should have a high-res screen that is readable outdoors. It should have an amazing keyboard. It should plug into a projector at conferences without clunky adaptors. I should be able to connect an USB memory stick, a mouse and an external hd for backups, so ideally, it should have at least 3 USB ports, or 2 USB ports and a firewire port.

I am among the gazillion Mac users who wait for a successor to the 12in Powerbook. The Air ain't it. The Air has not been designed around its function, but around the attempt to impress fashionistas with a glitzy piece of squashed roadkill. The Air compromises on functionality not as a tradeoff for other functionality, but only for faggotry, erm, looks. I am not in the market for a fashion statement, but for a lightweight, fast computer! (Also, I am a little ashamed to be seen with the Air outside, because I am not a pimp, but simply some working with a light, compact, practical computer.)

Personally, I really do not care much for the looks of the Air. I do not need a screen bezel that is wide enough to act as a toilet seat. I do not need unused space left and right of my keyboard to place cups on. I do not need corners that are sharp enough to cut bread, or to cut into my wrists while I am typing. I do not need a stupid retractable landing gear flap to hide a single pathetic USB port that is so much receded that half of my peripherals do not fit. I have no use for the most proprietary display ports in the whole world, and then to shell out 99$(!) for a clunky adaptor. I do not care for the cW value; I want timeless and useful industrial design.

Again, the Air as such is quite an ok laptop. But I do not want it, and it is blocking the ultraportable slot in Apple's portfolio. I want a light 11inch unibody Mac without spindles. (And I am willing to pay for it!)

Gruber, very well written. This was to be a thread for MBA 'Fans', but I'm very glad you posted your comments.

I agree with each an every one of them. Yet, I still love my Air. The exact reason why is this ..... It's thin and light with a decent screen and a fantastic full size keyboard, for the majority of my work, business app's, email, photoshop, light design/drawing software it works flawlessly. I enjoy using it on my lap, I have a 3G internet stick so I use it everywhere, traveling, couch, back yard, at the mother in laws ... it's "fun" to use, and since I have to spend a lot of time on a computer, fun to use is important.

Very honesty, it's smoother run and faster running than any comparable window's machine I've owned, and I've owned too many the x301, Sony Z, TT, LG P300 etc.


Like I said, your words are very well written so much so I wish an Exec at Apple would stumble upon them, think about what you wrote and DO something about it. It would be a mutual benefit, eh? The computer WE want, and lot's more PROFIT for Apple.

In thinking about this it baffles me why they don't make the notebook you described now. Why aren't they??

Lastly, the answer for your computing needs since you don't want the Air and the 12" Powerbook doesn't exist may be the 13" MBP. It may not 'sound' like the exact notebook you want, but it may be worth a shot trying it within the 14 return period. And, you may really like it!?

As you can see from my signature that's what I'm doing. I've have a 15" MacBook Pro and returned it the day after WWDC, it was to big/clunky/heavy to be "fun" to use everywhere.

So, the MBA having the shortcomings you mentioned even though I find the Air adequate for my work I like the SD slot, I'm curious to see if I'll notice the increased power and if it's worth the trade off for the weight difference. And then I'll decide on what is going to be my "main machine", I've used two computers and other than having a dedicated HTPC for movie downloads etc I like to use only one notebook, it's easy to be organized.

Long post I realize, but the topic is so interesting, Apple could end our wishing, whining and speculating and just produce the Computer so many people want. Why don't they, I can't understand it???

Maybe Steve Job's will make an announcement on his return about some new "Amazing Computer" that will satisfy us all. What's the odds of that:confused:
 

entatlrg

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Mar 2, 2009
3,385
6
Waterloo & Georgian Bay, Canada
It depends on what you want. I have a great desktop system, so the air is just the extra amazing mac toy for around the house and on days out in the park.

The point that everyones forgetting with the air is its supper light and thin! Its not designed to be a sole computer that ticks everyones boxes. Its bespoke, individual and tailored to those who appreciate form over function LOL!

also, very well said!
 

ppc750fx

macrumors 65816
Aug 20, 2008
1,308
4
X301 is more expensive and less powerful. Air is actually a better value compared to it. Or any other 13", lighter than 1.5kg notebook I've seen.

I just compared the X200s with the MBA, and with the exception of it being a 12.1" screen, you can configure an identical machine for a little less than the cost of the MBA. The X200s, however, will have far more ports as well as a lighter total weight.

As for Lenovo's quality: it's still quite solid. The company I work for has deployed hundreds and hundreds of Lenovo-built ThinkPads, and the build quality is every bit as good as it was when the laptops carried an IBM badge. This makes sense, since Lenovo was doing the fab for IBM for years before they bought the division, and the same Raleigh, NC-based design team that designed the ThinkPads under IBM's ownership do the design for Lenovo.

I'm not saying that the MBA is inherently inferior, or anything like that... I'm just pointing out that Apple isn't the only player in the subportable market, and they're not a hands-down winner by any stretch of the imagination.
 

aleksandra.

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2008
674
0
Warsaw, Poland
I just compared the X200s with the MBA, and with the exception of it being a 12.1" screen, you can configure an identical machine for a little less than the cost of the MBA. The X200s, however, will have far more ports as well as a lighter total weight.

I'm not saying that the MBA is inherently inferior, or anything like that... I'm just pointing out that Apple isn't the only player in the subportable market, and they're not a hands-down winner by any stretch of the imagination.

X200 is smaller *and* heavier. X301 is in the same category. From Lenovo's site:

Introducing the X200 Tablet. See what's new:
  • Starting at just 3.5 lbs. Super light and ultraportable.

It's all a matter of priorities. I have researched alternatives (although it was a few months ago) and Air came out as a winner for me, even without considering OS X.
 

taphil

macrumors regular
Jun 16, 2007
131
91
X200 is smaller *and* heavier. X301 is in the same category. From Lenovo's site:
Why the heck are you comparing the X200 tablet?

These are the X200s weights:

4-cell battery starting at 1.10kg/2.43 lb
6-cell battery starting at 1.23kg/2.71 lb
9-cell battery starting at 1.39kg/3.05 lb

It also comes with a 1440x900 resolution display.
 

entatlrg

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Mar 2, 2009
3,385
6
Waterloo & Georgian Bay, Canada
It depends on what you want. I have a great desktop system, so the air is just the extra amazing mac toy for around the house and on days out in the park.

The point that everyones forgetting with the air is its supper light and thin! Its not designed to be a sole computer that ticks everyones boxes. Its bespoke, individual and tailored to those who appreciate form over function LOL!

hey, what program is that on your screen with all post-it type looking notes?
 

aleksandra.

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2008
674
0
Warsaw, Poland
Why the heck are you comparing the X200 tablet?

These are the X200s weights:

4-cell battery starting at 1.10kg/2.43 lb
6-cell battery starting at 1.23kg/2.71 lb
9-cell battery starting at 1.39kg/3.05 lb

It also comes with a 1440x900 resolution display.

Because Lenovo's site has a broken search engine :p. Seriously I didn't notice. I never cared for 12" laptops (unless they've 4:3 screen ratio, which they usually don't).

I couldn't find any information about exact weight at Lenovo's site... but configuring the model you seem to be speaking about (the one with 1440x900 resolution and an option of 4-cell battery) to resemble Air as much as possible I get a price of over $1800. I would say the prices are similar - it's impossible to compare identical configurations, but I suspect they'd be priced very closely. Each has some advantage over the other.

I still think X301 is a better comparison. It's 13" at least.

(Yes, I really hate small screens. I've barely convinced myself 13" is enough.)
 

173080

macrumors 6502
Aug 15, 2003
409
1
I think the Air is a great computer. I own two. They're great to have around the house in case friend or guest needs a computer to check their email or type a document in Pages. They never fail to impress. My Airs have sold a few Macs on their own. :D

I didn't buy them for the specs, that's what my Macbook Pro and Xserves are for. I bought them because they're beautiful, and that to me has a lot of value.
 

pro2010

macrumors newbie
Oct 17, 2008
17
0
The MBA is pretty much for anybody. On a daily daily basis I only plug headphones and a monitor to my macbook. I seldom ever have 2 usb plugged it. My keyboard and mouth is bluetooth so I'm not usually using usb.

The only thing I ever use my USB for is memory devises like my iPod... CD drive...Is used so infrequently.

I'd be perfectly happy with an air, the features may be limited but the missing features isn't a commonality. I'm not bashing it, it would actually probably be good for me. It's just funny, not having a cd drive is a big deal to most.. I just don't think it's a daily or even weekly used feature. For me it's maybe a month.
 
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