Why I will be switching back (to PC)

[HiRez]

I agree it seems like it's most likely an Apple Australia-specific problem...sounds like they need to take a cattleprod to their guys down there. For the record I've owned nine Macs and an iPod over the years, and the only problem I can remember is a stuck battery latch on my TiBook (and the TiBook leprosy problem, although that's only cosmetic). As far as ordering anything from Apple, I've learned to:

1. Never count on any rumored product or upgrade happening at any certain date (or ever).

2. Never preorder anything from them, thus avoiding being affected by product shipping delays. I always assume new Apple products will be in high demand initially, and will be backordered. Actually I rarely order anything directly from Apple, with the exception of my refurbed dual G5. I get most everything from MacConnection, which has great customer service, and I avoid paying sales tax from them.

3. Try to avoid buying the first generation (Rev. A) of an Apple hardware product unless I can wait and confirm the long-term integrity of it. (I also hold off a few days on installing OS upgrades.)

 

[James L]

I am not sure why this story surprises people?

I have used Macs since 1986. Love 'em. In that time I have had awesome customer service from Apple, even to the point of them replacing a new PB with one stuck pixel against their own policy.

Having said that, they also drop the ball a lot too. Apple is a large corporation prone to errors sometimes like all other large corporations. They make mistakes. It seems sometimes like people feel the need to defend Apple at all costs. Apple should be praised when they get it right, and frowned upon when they don't. They are a computer company, not a cult or a religion (contrary to what SJ would have us believe).

Dude, sorry you got screwed over by Apple. When things go well they are awesome machines, and this is coming from a long time user, Mac world attendee, etc.

Cheers,

James

 

[iact101]

Thanks Guys

Ok expect for a couple of crazy replies about fake posts and pc / mac wars and whatever,...... to those people, seriously (grow up!!!!!)

The rest of you have written some cool things. Will certianly look into some of the options mentioned. And I want to say thanks to those people.

I will stick it out for a little while longer, I do really want my mac, hence why i am so mad/ disapointed with the service.

Will update when I have some answers, hopefully on Monday when I call Chris again after him not returning my call again.

 

[WinterMute]

Lol yeh i think some waiters do..lol.
I wish they would give me a stand in computer, that would help a great deal.
Although I would at least like an eta on the repair that is really a 30 min job at the most. And its not like 1.8 G5s are hard to come by. They say 1 -2 days to deliever them ????
I am just blowing off steam, i do really want to stay with macs cause i love osx but feel like I have no choice anymore.

You're right, it's not good enough. My studio manager deals with all the Apple returns from the Uni, he says you have to bug them a bit to get the best out of them.

The Australian Apple is not Apple US, effectively they are a service company, not a manufacturing one, I hear there are problems with other Apple service companies.

Stick with it, make a fuss, speak to the manager, get some freebies, tell them where to stick it all and watch them jump.... (that may not work).

You know you really don't want to use a PC.

 

[iact101]

obviously not a professor of english...

most people in Uni circles out here dont say "professor" they say Proff.

 

[mvc]

And if you think Apple Australia suck, try the Apple Reseller in NZ - Renaissance. Between them and the Aussies who they apparently HAVE to buy Macs through, we are getting shafted!

That mid range Powermac 2.3 you Americans buy for $2599?

Costs us $4,260 + Tax

$NZD is at .71 of the $USD, so it ought to cost around $3660.

That's nearly a 20% markup.

 

[mad jew]

Will update when I have some answers, hopefully on Monday when I call Chris again after him not returning my call again.

Don't tell me that's Chris Ffrench from NextByte!

If it is (really, what are the chances ), tell him to get his arse into gear or he'll be hearing from me!

I'm glad to hear you'll give Apple another chance though.

 

[feakbeak]

Thanks dude,
yeh I hate kicking up a stink and even more so cause i kinda feel its not the re-sellers fault as they do want to fix it, they just need the part to do it.

I guess by me posting this I am hoping that maybe someone from apple australia will see this and go "hey, we better fix this"

Unfortunately, I doubt that will happen. Have you tried complaining up the chain. Talk to managers, find out the info for regional managers or corporate offices and call, and send letters. In the US we have the Better Business Bureau that takes complaints against companies and keeps them recorded for other customers to check out. If you have something similar in AU you might try that. I realize finding out all that information and taking the time to call or write is annoying, but it is worth a shot.

I believe letters work better, not many people write letters of complaint these days. Companies seem to take notice of that more than an annoyed customer calling up - it is not fair, but it is true. Write the letter very politely and professionally, yet be very clear about how upset you are and how atrocious their customer service has been. I did this a few times and you usually get something out of it. For example, several years ago when I was in college my girlfriend and I went to Disney World and around Florida. I had purchased a ~$100 Kodak camera, nothing great - a stupid point and shooter. The camera had worked fine for a few months but all of the rolls of film in Florida did not turn out. Apparently the shutter had stopped working so that film was never exposed. I was furious. I decided to write a letter, not to Kodak's customer support but to the CEO of Kodak. Now, I know he did not read my letter personally, but let me tell you I was compensated. Although my camera was just out of the warranty period, I still got a new camera, better model and a bunch of free film along with a letter of apology on behalf of Kodak.

I cannot guarantee you any results but from my personal experience a professional, well-written letter of complaint often yields better results than other methods. I would give it a try. If nothing else you have expressed your dissatisfaction to the decision makers of the company that has frustrated you.

Also, I would agree that your experiences are not typical of Apple in general, although maybe these issues are more common at Apple Australia. However, that is irrelevant you've had some awful customer service and you have every right to be upset. I don't see it as Mac-bashing, I see it as bashing poor customer service. I don't see why everyone gets upset because Apple's name is tied to it. Bad service happens everywhere, it is caused by individuals not necessarily the company. There are crappy employees at every company, even Apple.

Good luck!

 

[weg]

This is unrepresenative of my experience, Apple have always been very good to me, even though my iPod took a week longer to get here, that was TNT's fault, not Apples.

I hear Aston Martin have crap customer service too, but I wouldn't go back to a Ford Focus because of it...

Your choice mate, but going back to an inferior OS and ugly hardware is going to suck.

It might be different in the US, but here in Europe I made the experience that 1 month for delivery is quite normal. If they manage to send you a Powerbook with a defect display (as in my case), it might take another two weeks until you get a working computer. Btw, no BTO, my Powerbook was off the shelf, and in the mid-product cycle.
Perhaps Apple serves US citizens first?

 

[Blue Velvet]

I believe letters work better, not many people write letters of complaint these days. Companies seem to take notice of that more than an annoyed customer calling up - it is not fair, but it is true. Write the letter very politely and professionally, yet be very clear about how upset you are and how atrocious their customer service has been. I did this a few times and you usually get something out of it.

True. And even more effective, is CC'ing someone more superior up in the chain. That way the recipient can't ignore it.

 

[wPod]

man, im glad i live in the US and about 5 min from one store and 30 min from a second store. even with the iBook logic board problem a while back i have always had good/fast service.

if i were you id get a cheap build your own box and put unix on it. then use your apple as your primary computer and have the unix box as a backup should the apple be stuck in repair for a while.

 

[za9ra22]

As a corporate entity, Apple sucks and we all know it. They make extraordinary products that are so cool you have to suit up to touch them, but Apple themselves are secretive, are taken by surprise by even oridinary levels of interest in their products and are unreasonable silent, not so much about new products but about work being done to resolve common problems being reported with their systems and software.

Users all over the place are left up in the air with orders that take silly lengths of time to fulfill, with bizarre answers from Apple customer service when faults are being reported, and with national supply chains that are laced with the sort of awfulness that might barely cause a ripple for MS or HP, but of which Apple should be nothing short of ashamed.

Customers get left high and dry by Apple and some of their policies are nothing short of dire. It used to be said that Apple users were fanatical about Apple systems DESPITE Apple rather than because of Apple.

But the thing is, they DO make the most cool and workable systems in the known universe. When their stuff works... man, it just works. Not only that, but it just works in a way that makes it easy to ignore just how stunning well it works. Part of the reason is the same as why they're an awful corporate entity to be a customer of - because they make the hardware, the software and the OS. It means the degree of integration is incredible, but the degree of arrogance is often equal to it.

None of which excuses bad serivice, but ultimately reacting to bad service by opting out and returning to the PC fold doesn't achieve much in the way of positive progress. The stress and frustrations of banging your head on Apple's corporate door goes away, but in exchange, you get the frustration of dealing with poorly designed hardware and inferior operating systems and software and lower levels of integration and seamless usability into the future. No one suffers but you yourself.

This is a situation where there are too many variables to know exactly who is to blame or who is to be believed, but I find it difficult to imagine that Australian law is so defficient in consumer rights and protections that there is no form of redress or avenue to pursue. In the UK it would be a simple matter of Sale of Goods Act enforcement and Apple would be required to respond positively to you either vuluntarilly or through the use of a local Trading Standards officer. If there is no such equivalent in Australian law, it's time to start demanding it!

 

[nagromme]

That's insanely frustrating. I'd feel the same.

But it's true that you've experienced really bad luck, and not the norm.

Apple is consistently rated THE best in the industry for BOTH support AND hardware reliability, in large-scale surveys done by Consumer Reports:

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1261805

How does that help you if you're the unlucky one? Not one bit.

Hopefully giving up Mac OS X will be worth the chance of even worse experiences from companies with poorer support/reliability records.

Better luck next time, whatever OS you choose!

 

[thomastsui]

Apple - Australia

Well. For a internetional student from hong kong and studying in ASUTRALIA.

The Australia - Apple....is SUCKS. The only Apple store in Brisbane City is Nextbyte. And you can buy anything from apple , if they have stocks. or simply they wanna sell.

Luckly, we have Apple online store, the service is good infact. I bought my M-Audio-e49 from them Once it had released. (Well. Nextbyte didn't have stocks until 3 months later.)

 

[GFLPraxis]

How would you know??? you havent had any problems with your Macs

And whom said I would go with XP

My problem is consistently poor service from Apple australia over a period of a year now.

And if a custom part breaks on it eg a motherboard you are at there mercy. And with Apple Australia's Service all I can say is good luck

You never even got your Mac. You didn't even get the change to use OS X. This is a bit premature, no?

 

[caveman_uk]

Perhaps Apple serves US citizens first?

You think???

I thought that was a given. Apple says it doesn't but then again they're hardly likely to say 'Yeah, we do give the US better service and all the cool stuff first'. I reckon it's down to market-size. For the Aussie guy being in Australia you're

1) Miles away from anywhere.
2) There's only 20 million of you.

Just be glad you're not New Zealand...

We get a crap deal to compared to the US but I reckon it's getting better here in the UK as we've appeared on SJ's radar now we have some proper AppleStores, they make a ton of money and we're the second biggest market for ipods after the US.

 

[nagromme]

Also, I would agree that your experiences are not typical of Apple in general, although maybe these issues are more common at Apple Australia.

Yeah. The surveys I linked to above are from Consumer Reports, which I assume means mainly US consumers. So that may indeed not represent the Australia customer support experience.

(Apple's leasing hardware reliability record would apply worldwide though.)

Anyway, OS X is worth getting into! Hope your experience improves

 

[Roz]

I hear Aston Martin have crap customer service too, but I wouldn't go back to a Ford Focus because of it...

Hey man, don't knock the Focus! I've got the orange SVT Focus and I love it! Although I wouldn't consider the SVT and regular Focus in the same league. Sorry for going COMPLETELY off topic!

 

[Sun Baked]

This is unrepresenative of my experience, Apple have always been very good to me, even though my iPod took a week longer to get here, that was TNT's fault, not Apples.

I hear Aston Martin have crap customer service too, but I wouldn't go back to a Ford Focus because of it...

Your choice mate, but going back to an inferior OS and ugly hardware is going to suck.

In reality it's Bently right now with all the nagging little electronic problems on the GT and the new 4-door.

Which is strange, because the people with basically the same system on the Phaeton and SUVs aren't having the same electical problems.

 

[WinterMute]

Hey man, don't knock the Focus! I've got the orange SVT Focus and I love it! Although I wouldn't consider the SVT and regular Focus in the same league. Sorry for going COMPLETELY off topic!

I just knew I was going to catch som flak over that.... I'm sorry...

Sorry you've got a Focus that is.

Tinny, generic, noisy, tastless pieces of plastic that they are....

OK, sorry again, they're not bad, they're just not very interesting, and the RS is a deathtrap.

Back on topic, I have a very early 17" PowerBook, the first one I got was toast, it simply didn't work, Apple replaced it quckly and without fuss.

Apple UK are getting better, but they could be much better, it's a paranoid company alright, you have to sign a NDA before they'll INTERVIEW you.

 

[deputy_doofy]

Why do most IT people tend to have atrocious spelling, punctuation, and grammar? Not trying to pick on this one person, but I have observed this phenomenon over and over again. It's quite amazing for a job that should require effective communication.

Actually, it really isn't just IT people. On message forums all over, and all topics, I see the same common mistakes:
- your vs. you're
- their vs. there vs. they're
- to vs. too
- lose vs. loose
- than vs. then
- dual vs. duel (people with their duel G5's must have a really slow computer)

However, the only time I hold it against someone is when I am looking at their company website. You lose all credibility of being professional (to me) when I see those errors.

 

[PCM]

sorry, I love apple and own many products but their stuff has bad QC. PC's are worse obviously...but stop the Apple zealot BS...it's pretty annoying and gives mac users a bad rep. If this dude's story is true, that's ridiculous and he should be pissed. The only reason I believe him is I've had similar problems with apple myself.

The first TWO 23" Cinema display's I had were defective out of the box. BOTH! My friend's 12" powerbook was defective that I helped her to set up. My BT keyboard...defective. And my year-old powerbook's USB port on the left side just went up...luckily I have the 23" display with USB hubs to get by.

I must say however, that the Applecare service is pretty good, but these issues have caused me great inconvenience.

I've used macs for years and have persuaded many people to switch (including my own family), but after this last g5 update...starting to wonder if they care about us pros any more, or for that matter anybody but ipod users.

 

[hulugu]

cause we are all to lazy and use spell checkers way to much..... least i do. I don't care I know I am a shocker.....lol

See, if you had a Mac and Safari, you could type in command : and you'd get spellchecking for your MacRumors posts.

Sorry, you had so many problems with Apple Australia, I hope your experience is not representative and I wish you all the best, even if it means you're going to buy x86 hardware. By the way, Sony VAIOs are garbage.

 

[hulugu]

sorry, I love apple and own many products but their stuff has bad QC. PC's are worse obviously...but stop the Apple zealot BS...it's pretty annoying and gives mac users a bad rep. If this dude's story is true, that's ridiculous and he should be pissed. The only reason I believe him is I've had similar problems with apple myself....
I must say however, that the Applecare service is pretty good, but these issues have caused me great inconvenience...

This amazes me, I've bought, helped buy, or set-up numerous Mac within the past three years and the only issue I ran into was an iPod Mini that started acting squirely. I brought it to the Apple Store and they gave me a new one. I've had exactly two machines give me problems, one was the iBook logic board, fixed and returned within one week and a Powerbook hard-drive that had a few bad sectors, also fixed within one week. The iBook and iPod Mini were entirely Apple's fault, but the Powerbook was Toshibas, who obviously made a crappy hard-drve.

I hope the guy all the best, but I don't think his story is indicative of Apple—although I'm not so sure about Apple Australia. So, just because someone happens to wonder why he or even you has so many problems when someone like me has few problems, doesn't make someone a zealot.
Fact is, I hate the usage of zealot for someone who disagrees it just warps the conversation from 'let me understand the problem' to a defense of Apple=zealot, ie irrational.

 

[tristan]

Welcome to IT

This industry is just hit or miss. I used to own a Powerbook 5300 - man ,I got screwed on that one. My current PB is great - now that Apple swapped out the logic board. But I've owned two Dell laptops also, and one was crap and the other was worse than crap. I'm on a Dell from work that just had it's motherboard replaced on tuesday. And, let's see - I can't even count the number of printers (Inkjet) I've had that have gone bad. I seem to buy a new one every 18 months. My iPod's great, but the creative Nomad I had before that had a screwed up battery system and the Diamond Rio I have corrupts files occasionally. And there's that Lucent/Orinoco wireless hub I had that just died one day. And the nVidia card that I had that always crashed windows because I could never get a stable driver. And that other PC that I built a few years ago - never did find out why that one kept crashing. Bad Asus motherboard maybe. That was about a year after my friend gave me some RAM chips and half of them were bad - didn't find out until I tried to compile a Linux kernel. And my wife's laptop that has a bad display. And windows itself - that's another five posts right there.

Ummm... see where I'm going with this?