Why I’m returning my 2018 MacBook Pro

[Rogifan]

When Bob Mansfield was in charge we never seemed to have these problems

Dan Riccio has a lot to answer for

Oh Really?

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...r-longstanding-2011-macbook-pro-gpu-problems/

https://www.macrumors.com/2015/03/16/retina-macbook-pro-stained-coating/

 

[maflynn]

When Bob Mansfield was in charge we never seemed to have these problems

Apple's track record these past 10 years is sadly not stellar . I don't think its any one person's fault

 

[mrs2r]

I returned my 2018 MacBook Pro as well. It was the maxed out 13" model 2.7/16GB/2TB. I will stick with my current 2015 13" 2.9/16GB/500GB MBP until the next update for the following reasons:

- It got just as hot or hotter than my current MBP
- I absolutely hate the speakers, they sound like the audio is processed through a cheap audio enhancer
- Not substantially more responsive than my current MBP for everyday tasks
- 4k editing was smoother but still choppy
- Export times were better, but not worth $3700
- Only 0.46 lbs lighter, which isn't that noticeable even with a lot of traveling

 

[linkgx1]

I've often said get the best tool to meet your needs, and its clear that current MBP is not meeting your needs, Kind of sad that my 2.2Ghz is beating out the next model up (2.6Ghz) in benchmarks. I'm happy with my MBP but my needs are not as high as yours


I think many people are but mostly tech types that we see here at MR, most consumers probably are unaware of the issue by and large


Apple's hardware track record is not all that stellar. People, bloggers, vloggers highly tout build quality and how great the hardware is. I too think its a well engineered system, but their hardware is failing more then it should.

Here's some recent history with the MBP
2008 - 2011 - dGPU failures, the 2011 was probably the worst where it was reported that all at some point or another will fail, though this number is probably too high
2012 - 2015 - screengate, where the coating was flaking off on many units. Apple had to institute a repair program
2017 - 2017 (2018 too?) keyboard failures.
2018 - Throttling issues. While this is being solved in software its a hardware design failure where it seems the lack of proper thermal evacuation is causing the VRM to over heat.

I don't know of another computer maker that has had as many repair programs, so many issues for the last 10 years, yet is considered the pinnacle of computer design and quality.

Let me finish up, and say I feel my 2012 rMBP was the best laptop I've ever owned, and I also have an iMac and I'm now an owner of the 2018 machine, so I'm not hating on them, but clearly its not all unicorns and rainbows with Apple
[/rant]

People are generally blindsided by cost. A $20,000 Ford and a $100,000 Tesla could both have the same number of issues, but the former would be torn apart in reviews. Sometimes I think perceived experience is based on what you think the brand's value is.

 

[thadoggfather]

I played with a 2018 briefly, and compared the KB side by side with the demo nTB

definitely quieter. The click felt a little less satisfying tho at the same time. Minor, but something I personally detected. I could probably cope, especially since they significantly upped the reliability of the mechanism/preventing dust from getting in there and rendering keys useless but... still a slight bit of a click satisfaction degradation imo coming from nTB

2016 nTB seems perfect computer to have and get my feet wet with, assuming mine still holds up (knock on wood) and ride out for the next couple years... while Apple makes up their mind and addresses peoples beef with the new models in new-new-new models.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

I returned my 2018 MacBook Pro as well. It was the maxed out 13" model 2.7/16GB/2TB. I will stick with my current 2015 13" 2.9/16GB/500GB MBP until the next update for the following reasons:

- It got just as hot or hotter than my current MBP
- I absolutely hate the speakers, they sound like the audio is processed through a cheap audio enhancer
- Not substantially more responsive than my current MBP for everyday tasks
- 4k editing was smoother but still choppy
- Export times were better, but not worth $3700
- Only 0.46 lbs lighter, which isn't that noticeable even with a lot of traveling

- If you're waiting for the MBPs to get cooler in the future, I think you'll be waiting a very very very long time.
- Personally the speakers are better and other reviewers would agree, it has better tuned mid-tones and low-tones. But of course, not everyone is happy.
- Yeah, most everyday tasks have reached a point that no matter what machine you use either an i5 or an i9, will not show any significant speed increase.
- 4k editing on your 13 inch, have you tried it with the 15 inch? Maybe if you are editing 4k video, give the 15 inch MacBook a go.
- If I can save about an hour a day because of the work I do is faster on a newer system, that would save me more or less around 240 hours a year, and if I earned about 250 an hour, that would mean I would be earning more of less another 45-60k a year. give or take because I can get lazy sometimes. So $3700 dollars on something that could last me a few years is definitely worth it.
- Okay...let me talk about long term back strain be carrying something 0.46lb lighter...haha! Okay I'm kidding. This is relative.

 

[Endorphine88]

Hi everyone

Thought I’d let you all know the reasons why I’m returning my MacBook Pro. My maxed out 15-inch MacBook Pro arrived a few days ago.

I purchased it primarily for 4K editing. Nothing crazy, just normal 4K holiday editing etc

First of all, the machine gets waaaaaay too hot when playing back 4K footage. After a few minutes, the fans kick in at full speed and the playback becomes choppy. This also happens when watching YouTube 4K videos. When viewing the same content on my iPad or my iPhone, playback is constantly smooth.

I’ve got sticky keys, the return button sounds really sticky and I have to press the caps lock button a few times for it to register I’ve pressed it.

Closing windows etc, it’s just not responsive to what I imagine it should be.

For a $5,507 AUD machine, it’s highly disappointing - I guess I’ll wait to see if it improves or venture to the dark side and get a Windows machine.

There is no way in hell a machine with that much power packed into it is going to give you choppy playback of 4k video. My old Macbook air is on its 8 year of use and has no issues with 4k playback. Maybe if you are rendering in demanding codecs and have several things happening at the same time then things will heat up a bit, but your statement makes no sense. Also, you're experiencing sticky keys on a machine that is new and has a membrane under the keyboard to address this very problem? One of two things is happening:
A) you have a defective laptop that needs replacement
B) you are trolling and lying to compound bad PR for Apple (apparently there's a lot of you out there)

 

[Beau10]

Estimated breakage rate by the end of the 2nd year of ownership:

With Apple, I...

- had a 2008 MBP that needed to have the logic board replaced after a dGPU failure.
- had a 2014 rMBP with staingate, got the screen replaced
- have a late 2016 that had the keyboard swapped out

I had bunch of different Windows laptops throughout the '00s. Just about every one was creak city within a few months and had a variety of terrible things happen that required them shipped off to service.

The choice is no contest IMO - the experience of owning an Apple laptop is just far superior.

I do feel the biggest knock against Apple is the exorbitant out-of-warranty fees they charged prior to them taking responsibility for some of these issues. People should never be in the position of paying $500 to fix keyboard issues or have screen swaps, $700 to fix obvious dGPU issues, etc. There shouldn't have to be an uproar with class action lawsuits pushing Apple's hand on any of this.

 

[poorcody]

I agree with Beau10's post. Those reliability numbers I posted from Consumer Reports are sort of shocking, in that even the most reliable has a 10% return rate in the first two years (Apple). I guess it's easy to forget how complicated modern laptops are to engineer and manufacture reliably. So I think factoring in service quality is important, to which I think Apple is better than most. Agree the pricing is often high, but then I find they often wave or reduce the service list price.

 

[jerryk]

People are generally blindsided by cost. A $20,000 Ford and a $100,000 Tesla could both have the same number of issues, but the former would be torn apart in reviews. Sometimes I think perceived experience is based on what you think the brand's value is.

Definitely not true for Tesla. They are a bunch of people wishing Tesla would die and putting money into shorts. Every little Tesla flaw gets magnified, even though owners love the company, the cars, and the energy products.

Full disclosure: I own a Tesla.

 

[Hitrate]

I agree with Beau10's post. Those reliability numbers I posted from Consumer Reports are sort of shocking, in that even the most reliable has a 10% return rate in the first two years (Apple). I guess it's easy to forget how complicated modern laptops are to engineer and manufacture reliably. So I think factoring in service quality is important, to which I think Apple is better than most. Agree the pricing is often high, but then I find they often wave or reduce the service list price.

Anyone have numbers like that for the 2013 macpro, imac and other more stationary devices?

 

[poorcody]

Anyone have numbers like that for the 2013 macpro, imac and other more stationary devices?

Again from Consumer Reports, this time for desktops. Breakage rate after 3 years of ownership:

Apple: 13%
Asus: 23%
Dell: 23%
Acer: 24%
Lenovo: 25%
HP: 26%

They don't break it down more than brand. Kind of amazing desktops are higher than laptops, although it is for 3 years instead of 2.

Note the numbers are for 32,026 desktops surveyed that were bought between 2013 and 2017.

 

[Hitrate]

Again from Consumer Reports, this time for desktops. Breakage rate after 3 years of ownership:

Apple: 13%
Asus: 23%
Dell: 23%
Acer: 24%
Lenovo: 25%
HP: 26%

They don't break it down more than brand. Kind of amazing desktops are higher than laptops, although it is for 3 years instead of 2.

Note the numbers are for 32,026 desktops surveyed that were bought between 2013 and 2017.

Okay thanks man!! Guess there's no point in going desktop then from that perspective....

 

[oldhifi]

wow so soon?

 

[DeanL]

If your 15" had issues playing 4k, something was wrong... I have a 13 inch and I can play 2 4k videos side by side without jerkiness...

 

[duervo]

Have you even let it "index" before stress-testing your new machine? You should not judge it that quickly. New machines need to settle before they can perform at their best.

I tell you, these newbies don't know what they're doing sometimes, and they're quick to assume their machines are defective.

That may have been the case back when there were 5400rpm 2.5” HDDs in them. It doesn’t take long for an NVMe PCIe SSD to index. In fact, it only takes about 16 minutes to complete on a 2012 unibody 15” MacBook Pro (Mojave 18A336e), with a 2.5” SATA3 SSD, and that’s while a Time Machine backup ran and completed, and with 67% CPU idle avg during as well, with 4core i7.

Not to mention, watching a 4K YouTube stream on a 2018 system with a 6core CPU and a dedicated GPU is not “stress testing,” nor does it put a lot of load on the SSD. 4K YouTube streams use CPU/GPU, and WiFi. Not so much the SSD.

 

[baypharm]

Nope, took us years to save up for the 2017. Sticking with these. -- I edited the original post to make it look more clear, I realize how that came across now, lol. Thanks.

You guys did it the right way - more power to you. Too bad more people aren't willing to save up for years rather than whip out the ol' Mastercard and charge away. The world needs more people like you two in it! Kudos!

 

[mmomega]

[/rant]

This is also the reason most of my posts to new people asking advice is:

Look at what the company has produced in the last, even 10 years.
Does someone have a running count of how many models of Mac computers Apple has produced since 2008?
How many of those particular models do not overheat under a load?
I believe 2 or 3?

So any person ever having an expectation that a spec'd out MacBook, iMac, whatever, under a heavy load will not hit thermal throttle is right then creating an expectation level that Apple has hit maybe with 3-5% of its computers produced.
Apple does not (outside of the iMac Pro and old cheese graters) create a machine that will run the cpu in that particular machine for an extended period of time at high loads. They don't.
When it does happen, let that be the surprise. Don't let the fact that this occurs year after year, after year be the surprise.
Like holy crap, my (whatever mac) doesn't overheat, how is that possible?

Apple creates a product that falls within the lines of the majority of its customers. If you are outside of that 51%+ then you are not the customer base and there are two things to do.
Accept it.
Find something else.
[doublepost=1532575715][/doublepost]

You guys did it the right way - more power to you. Too bad more people aren't willing to save up for years rather than whip out the ol' Mastercard and charge away. The world needs more people like you two in it! Kudos!

You can guarantee credit companies love them some interest charges. Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm.

 

[Vazza]

I returned my 2018 MacBook Pro as well. It was the maxed out 13" model 2.7/16GB/2TB. I will stick with my current 2015 13" 2.9/16GB/500GB MBP until the next update for the following reasons:

- It got just as hot or hotter than my current MBP
- I absolutely hate the speakers, they sound like the audio is processed through a cheap audio enhancer
- Not substantially more responsive than my current MBP for everyday tasks
- 4k editing was smoother but still choppy
- Export times were better, but not worth $3700
- Only 0.46 lbs lighter, which isn't that noticeable even with a lot of traveling

Hmm, 4K editing apparently was fine here though slow?

 

[DeepIn2U]

I returned my 2018 MacBook Pro as well. It was the maxed out 13" model 2.7/16GB/2TB. I will stick with my current 2015 13" 2.9/16GB/500GB MBP until the next update for the following reasons:

- It got just as hot or hotter than my current MBP
- I absolutely hate the speakers, they sound like the audio is processed through a cheap audio enhancer
- Not substantially more responsive than my current MBP for everyday tasks
- 4k editing was smoother but still choppy
- Export times were better, but not worth $3700
- Only 0.46 lbs lighter, which isn't that noticeable even with a lot of traveling

Buyers remorse but I think, for you at least made the best choice. I'm wondering if going for a 6-core MBP 15" would've given you to performance you were after??

Unless you need to do video editing (4K) while mobile ... then you're money is most likely best spent buying and setting up an eGPU - if it works for OSX natively on external monitor. Yet I surmise you wanted portability. I recall long ago the 12" PowerBook Aluminum seemed to offer the performance then that we're now seeing with Quad-Core 13" MBP, yet even then many needed more.

 

[maflynn]

Buyers remorse but I think, for you at least made the best choice.

If you're not at peace with the purchase, then definitely return it. I bought a Razer Blade 15" last month and by all accounts it was a great machine. Not perfect but it checked off all the boxes of my must and want haves. Yet, I was just not content with the purchase, there were a number of short comings that rubbed me the wrong way, but mostly I missed the macOS experience. In the end, I returned the laptop.

I'm not a gamer, but I was blown away by the performance of that laptop, its quite a bit faster then my 2018 MBP, in fact the FireStrike benchmark, my only hope is that I'll get better video drivers to improve my windows experience. Yet even with the lackluster windows experience, I have no regrets with my MBP purchase, unlike the Razer

 

[GuruZac]

You guys did it the right way - more power to you. Too bad more people aren't willing to save up for years rather than whip out the ol' Mastercard and charge away. The world needs more people like you two in it! Kudos!

But I charged my Discover Card...only to pay off every month. I like the points