why is apple so far behind?

[ddtlm]

SuperChuck:

We are now entering a period where megahertz have hit the wall for EVERYBODY, and the name of the game is squeezing more performance out of a chip with very limited boosts in Mhz speed. In this game, Apple is way ahead of the curve. They've been working under this model for years.

Thats an amusing spin on Moto's non-delivery of performance. But anyway, Apple/IBM/Moto might be ahead of Intel in the game, but not AMD. AMD is spot-on and they've been spot-on for years.

thorshammer88:

Same thing happens while closing large apps, it closes but my computer gets bogged down and starts hummin and I cant use anything for a minute or two

Is your machine infested with spyware, or short on RAM? Sounds to me like your doing a lot of disk-swapping, and a well-ordered windows machine shouldn't be doing that (much).

The issue of RAM use is a definate problem for Mac users, so if you don't get a nice chunk of it you'll be back to the old "click grind grind action" you describe.

 

[thorshammer88]

ddtlm, I have a gig of ram and Im not really doing anything very strenuous, so I dont know why it does that. I have norton and am running two anti-spyware programs, so Im sure there isnt too much spyware on there. I didnt install microsofts 70 meg service pack 2 or anymore updates because it literally killed my computer, I spent hours getting it off, another illustration of how fed up I am with PC's and windows in particular

 

[live4ever]

Also when you compare prices make sure to factor in all the great software that comes free with every Mac.

 

[sorryiwasdreami]

thorshammer88,

To be totally honest, you aren't going to understand what any of us are talking about until you truely experience the mac and OS X. When I sit in front of my father's windows xp computer, I feel like a child looking at windows 3.1.

I can't believe how ancient it looks, acts, and feels. For real. The latest windows xp is seriously built on 5-year-old technology, and I can't even believe people sit there and use it. It gives me chills.

I think computers that run windows aren't bad machines; the hardware is good. It's the user experience that is atrocious. If Mac OS X ran on x86 based hardware, I would love to use it. I'm telling you right now, there is absolutely no comparison in windows xp to OS X. I can't even make an analogy.

If you are worried about the cost of a mac, get yourself a Mac Mini or eMac. If you can afford more, go with the new iMac G5 (that's what I have). If you are a professional wanting to do video or sound editing, heavy rendering, go with a powermac.

You will be happy you did.

 

[dejo]

thorshammer88, I think you are placing far too much emphasis on the "numbers" when trying to make your comparisons, especially when such side-by-side comparisons don't always foretell the "end experience". A luxury sports car may have the same horsepower, top speed, 0-60mph as a seemingly lower priced alternative, but just "driving it" will be a much more satisfying experience to many.

 

[ddtlm]

thorshammer88:

Those sound like good precautions, and sounds like plenty of RAM. I only use Windows on occasion, but I think I've observed the virus-scanners and anti-virus programs actually causing some performance problems. For my Windows machines, I keep things smooth by only installing games, doing little web browsing, never doing email, and avoiding virus/spyware progs. What might work for you would be to keep a Windows machine around for the tasks that it excells at, and keep a Mac around for email/browsing/etc. For that purpose, a cheap Mac should suffice (but never get less than 512M of RAM).

sorryiwasdreami:

I can't believe how ancient it looks, acts, and feels. For real. The latest windows xp is seriously built on 5-year-old technology, and I can't even believe people sit there and use it. It gives me chills.

Uh, Unix wasn't exactly designed yesterday. I'm pretty much at a loss for how to approach your attitude about "old" technology.

 

[clayj]

Oh yeah! My P4 machine puts MS Outlook up on the screen at boot time a full 5 minutes before it is actually usable...

You shouldn't use this particular case as an example of how Windows may or may not have a problem.

When you launch Outlook, one of the things it does before actually letting you run the program is to make sure that your PST/OST file(s) is/are OK... this takes time, moreso the larger the PST/OST file is, and if you shut Outlook down incorrectly, the test takes even longer. This test is performed after the program starts, but before the full UI engages... this is the reason why Outlook sometimes is slow to load and why its window comes up slowly. It's not Windows' fault.

 

[thorshammer88]

yeah Im fully aware of the performance drawbacks associated with running anti-spyware programs, another craptastic feature of using windows. I actually have considered getting the Mac mini, but my only concern is if I really like it I would want something more suitable for my needs like the imac and then spending even more money getting one. Theres only so much time I have to play around at the Mac store so I know I will never have the full experience of the Mac until I purchase one. This is the reason I am a little apprehensive, I would be putting a lot of money into something I know little about. At this point though I'm just desperate to get away from windows.

 

[mox358]

And one more thing...

Another thing I always factor in is just how much better OSX looks. As a web/graphic designer on the side, I notice how much more attractive the UI on Apple machines is compared to Windows (yes, even XP). OSX uses the graphics card to produce 3d effects, drop shadows, animations, and photo icons amongst other things. Windows XP even is using display technology from Windows 95. It just looks primitive. We have dell embedded XP terminals at work, and every time I come home to my mac I see how much better the interface looks, feels, and how much text is even easier to read.

And thats a technology MS has yet to reproduce, and apparently can't do by 2007, since I believe it was dropped from Longhorn.

Just trying to let you know that OSX does a LOT more work in the background, but the effects of having a much nicer interface will pay off in productivity and mostly your eyes not hurting!

Just my 2 cents.

 

[thorshammer88]

yes, thats another thing I noticed at the apple store, how much easier everything was to read, I didnt have to squint

 

[sorryiwasdreami]

sorryiwasdreami:
Uh, Unix wasn't exactly designed yesterday. I'm pretty much at a loss for how to approach your attitude about "old" technology.

Maybe I should have elaborated. Windows xp is windows 2000 with a different UI. It's been the same 5 year old system; that's what I was referring to. Of course OS X is built on top of Unix, but we'd still be using OS 9 if we were in the windows world.

I'm trying not to take your comment the wrong way.

 

[mox358]

I like to think of Unix as proven software instead of "old". Proven to be stable, reliable, and virus free.

As opposed to windows was is also proven software - proven unreliable, (usually very) unstable, and the least, proven to be a breeding ground for virii.

 

[MikeLaRiviere]

Defending Windows doesn't make one a jerk. I just built an AMD setup that I'm pretty satisfied with. It's great for gaming, and although I don't like it as much as my PowerBook, I still like it a lot. Just put Fedora Core 3 on there, and Windows XP seems to be a better system (granted, FC3 is rumored to be unstable, and I'm a linux nub). If I could run all my PC games on a Mac at the same or greater framerate for an equal or lesser (or perhaps slightly higher) price, that'd be great. Until that day, I'll still keep a PC around.

One other thing of note: although there are all kinds of goodies inherent with OS X, I find that with an x86 box I can "tinker" around quite a bit more. There are problems that arise in the BIOS, Windows, and Linux that I like to solve. Keeping Windows machines running optimally is another challenge I enjoy, fixing friends' computers and whatnot. I don't know if you're the same way... seeing as you're "fed up", I assume you're don't like to fix problems with computers. That being the case, a Mac is for you. I'm a big laptop guy - when I'm at home, I use my PC for gaming, but I always have my PowerBook in front of me. Right now, the iBook is quite a deal - comparable PC hardware does cost more, in fact. Although we maintain that clock speed is unimportant, check out a Pentium M thin-and-light less than five pounds with a built in DVD/CD-RW drive... if you're buying from Dell, you may find one that costs less (though I doubt it), but speaking from experience, these are flimsy machines. IBM and Sony make quality computers, but they cost more than the iBook. Bear in mind the student discount and corporate discounts, if they apply.

 

[Toppa G's]

Yes Ram, I have had much experience with crappy compaq's and gateways, what I should have said was PC's will win on price and newer hardware. Also Ram, in your earlier post you mentioned why I would be concerned about specs. Im concerned because that is all I have to go on having little experience with Macs aside from the apple store

Since it seems no one has really addressed the hardware besides the processor, let's take a look at that. With an Apple, you get a lot of options with even the basic package. They'll give you a couple FireWire ports, USB 2.0, DVI or VGA monitor connectivity, and for a little more money, you can add Bluetooth, AirPort/wireless, and more RAM (as people say, best to buy third party and install yourself). You get all that connectivity as a part of the package.

With most PCs (in my experience, feel free to correct me if wrong), you don't get FireWire; you usually have to add a card with FireWire ports. If you want Bluetooth, you have to add a card. Wireless internet? Add a card. These are some of the newest hardware technologies that Apple has done a great job of integrating into the computer and the operating system for a truly smooth interface.

So when you're talking about PCs using newer hardware, sure, they have "faster" processors. But everything else works darn well on an Apple. Heck, my iBook is about 4 years old, and I can still use it as my primary computer for web, email, Photoshop, Illustrator, page layout applications and more. And it works.

When I can open the lid of my 4 year old laptop and be surfing the web within 10 seconds (waking from sleep), that is worth it to me. Some of my friends and family using PCs have to log back in to their 1-2 year old computers with XP, then wait for everything to reload and then get to the internet, usually a 30+ second process.

A bit long-winded I guess, but I've found with my iBook I can get things done and find information faster and more intuitively. It just works.

 

[ddtlm]

sorryiwasdreami:

I don't want to take your comment the wrong way, but is there a reason to act like a jerk?

Cause by exchanging a few words and I could see the original comment directed at clothing by some uber-trendy highschooler. That would have been a bad approach to technology. But its good to hear you didn't intend it that way.

 

[Mav451]

Firewire, while not as prominent on the PC side, has been around for a LONG time. I know that Firewire was already found on the very first PMac G4's in 2000, but I believe that PCs have had it since 1999 on even the early Athlon chipsets such as the KT133. Obviously, with the variations between motherboard manufacturers some would have it, while others do not. It is also good to point out that the success of the USB/USB2 overshadowed 1394 on the PC side, and literally limited Firewire as only a "requirement" if you had a digital camcorder and wanted to move that data. Cases, for the longest time have had Firewire ports on the front (easy access) or more typically, on the back as part of the typical I/O panel.

*well, actually those mobo's simply included the pci expansion card as part of the package. To be honest, I think that it is only more recently in 2002 that mobos started having the IEEE-1394 controller integrated directly into motherboards (the i845 and nForce2 chipsets come to mind).

In terms of wireless, any "Centrino" or more succinctly put, Pentium-M based laptop has wireless access built in, be in Banias, Dothan, or Sonoma core. Pentium-M's, on the PC side, are the only way to go anyway. If you have a friend who purchased a P4-Mobile (expensive, thermally inefficient), you can tell them they just wasted a lot of money =(

 

[thorshammer88]

Mike, when I spend $2000 for a computer it should just work. Im not a very technical person and I have no interest in correcting problems that shouldnt be there in the first place. Isnt that what Im paying them for? A computer that does what I expect it to do without hassles. These companies have amassed billions of dollars, youd think they could build a stable product that was easier to use.

 

[JRM]

APPLE AREN'T BEHIND

Look at what Apple have:

Powermac G5 - Enough said
Xserve G5 - Think Virginia Tech
iPod - Watch out only have 65% of the market
Powerbook - Not G5 but my TiBook belts my brothers 2.0GHZ Centrino and the Ti actually works
iBook - Awesome price and functionality
Mini - Of course behind? Dell bought one of those stylish affordable machines out years ago. Didn't they?
iMac- Yes behind? My Dell Display doesn't have a DVD burner in it yet. Did U know that?
OSX - XP? Choose which one that works the best. How about simplifying it and choosing the one that DOES work.
iLife - Nothing to compete against and at $79

MY FRIEND YOU ARE MISTAKEN

 

[jmsait19]

thor, it sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind. Just reading through all these posts, you know you want a Mac, you are just needing some reassurance. I think everyone here will tell you that you won't be disappointed. And I also can vouch for that.

I'm a 19 year old college student. I have a part-time job that doesn't really pay jack. I like to spend so I don't really have any money. But I was fed up with my parents PC. It was slow as all dog and just an absolutely miserable experience to even check email. The computer would crash just trying to close pop-ups. So a year ago i got my parents to buy me a powerbook and set up a plan to where i would pay them back in full with a small amount of interest over time. Like you I was a little nervous because I had never owned a Mac. I was buying this based off of what I had read a little online and what a couple of people at my work had said. I actually didn't know of this website before i bought it, so I was more blind than you. (wow, that was a bigger risk than i originally thought!) However, I'm about halfway paid off and I sure could use the extra cash, BUT I wouldn't trade my powerbook for the world. I love it to death. I never have problems with it. It runs like a dream and is just goreous inside and out. Everything opens in good time, its not slow at all. Basically, as much as I could use the 2 grand-ish I spent on this, I don't regret for one second buying this computer.

As you said in an earlier post, if you pay a lot for a computer, you want it to work without hassle. Well, the Mac does. It could really be a slogan for the Mac. "It just works." Because it does work, and it works well.

I hope I was able to ease your nerves just a little bit.

 

[atari1356]

Mike, when I spend $2000 for a computer it should just work. Im not a very technical person and I have no interest in correcting problems that shouldnt be there in the first place. Isnt that what Im paying them for? A computer that does what I expect it to do without hassles. These companies have amassed billions of dollars, youd think they could build a stable product that was easier to use.

Based on that comment alone, I'd say you'd be quite happy with a Mac.

Mac OS X does have it's quirks... but in general it's very easy to use, extremely stable, and you won't have to deal with viruses and spyware.

As far as processor speed goes, as long as it's fast enough to get your work done, who cares what the MHz rating is? Besides, MHz is meaningless on PC's if you waste half of your time fixing problems anyways.

 

[thorshammer88]

JRM, I dont know the whole point of that but if you want to talk stats whats apples market share of computers? Also, the powermac enough said comment really cleared things up for me, thanks a lot considering Im not interested in an ipod or an xserve. Do you have nothing better to do than to make sarcastic comments when I have legitimate concerns about making a huge investment in an apple?

I really do want one, like I said earlier I'm just concerend about putting a lot of money into something that I have no experience with.

Thanks jm, Im glad to hear about somebody in my situation who never owned a mac before being able to get the hang of it quickly

 

[oldpismo]

Just to throw my towel into the ring on the processor speed issue. I am writing this at work on a Dell laptop with a 1.7GHz Centrino processor with 1Gb of ram. At home I have a 1.8GHz iMac with 512Gb ram. There is no question that the mac is much faster. I can use the same development tools and the performance is greatly improved, for a GHz difference that shouldn't be noticable (especially with the ram difference) The greatest difference however is the speed to boot.

Processor architecture does make a big difference.

I also think that the need to have a virus checker on the PC slows down general file access and the whole machine now feels sluggish.

PC's also seem to slow with age. I don't know if Macs do, I haven't had it long enough yet.

Peter

 

[crap freakboy]

No matter how much you test drive a car there comes the point where have to take the leap of faith and part with your cash.
It's a no-brainer in my opinion, OSX is just sooo...listen, just buy an iMac G5, dont bother with the Mini...you'll never look back. It just works with you rather than against you. Hope you do make the right decision. I've been using Macs since '89 - never had a virus, adware or spyware.

 

[jmsait19]

Thanks jm, Im glad to hear about somebody in my situation who never owned a mac before being able to get the hang of it quickly

Actually yeah, thinking about it now, I feel like I can do way more with my mac after 1+ years as opposed to 8+ on a PC. They are just easier and they work. The risk was worth it and paid off greatly for me. I think it could do the same for you.

 

[LeeTom]

How can I put this?
I was a PC user most of my life, and bought my first Mac (since the early 90s) a year and a half ago... a Powerbook. At first I was a little ticked off at some things that were different, that I was used to on a PC. Little things.
But recently I bought a PC again SOLELY to play the new Counter-Strike:Source game, because it's so awesome... and realize how amazing the Mac experience is.

I USE the Powerbook... I don't have anti-virus software, I don't have spyware removers, I don't run defragmenter, and I don't even run the Scandisk equivalent (Disk Utility)...

I do have all my albums organized with cover art in iTunes.
I have edited old movies I made in iMovie, made slideshows with iPhoto and uploaded them to the web, or burned them to DVD for family members...
Recently I've learned Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro, and am building a pretty professional-looking DVD of old videos.
I recorded music with Garageband, and shared it with friends on the web.
I browse the web with no popups!
I read my email without thinking about spam, save for 1-2 times per month.
Drivers? What are drivers? I plug in my camera, video camera, iSight, iPod, printer... they just worked!

What I'm trying to say is, I don't think about all the B.S. that people have become accustomed to with their computers... I just enjoy working with my computer when I need to use it, and I'll take that over any numbers you can come up with, money- or speed-wise, anyday.

Lee Tom