Why is browsing on PPC less than stellar in 2016?

[eyoungren]

Because the software is not optimised for your machine any more. Software is written to do more, based on more processing power being available. Your old CPUs do not have hardware support for crypto, do not have codec support for new image/video formats, etc.

You can whine about bloat, but it's not all just crappy web programmers (though they are most certainly a thing) - the modern web is doing a lot more in the background than web from 10-12 years ago. So much more javascript heavy.

Turn off javascript you'll probably find it helps, but you'll break a lot of sites now.

But at the end of the day, your CPU is 12+ years old. Any 12+ year old CPU be it PPC or intel is going to struggle on the modern web. It's not a RAM issue, it's just that the CPUs do not do what the web does in an expedient fashion in 2016. Time has well and truly moved on.

Try doing what you're trying to do on a Pentium D machine from 2004, for example. You'll get a similar result.

This is why we have a browser optimised for PowerPC based on the latest Firefox code.

If you further optimize it, it does even better.

I get about 2 second initial page loads on a G4 and about 6-9 seconds for the rest of the page to complete (while I'm reading the content). That's pretty good for a 2001 era G4.
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No, as per my above second post, this isn't a PPC vs. Intel thing.

A 12 year old intel CPU struggles as well. Time and processing requirements move on.

Right ok. I see. You are speaking to the central point with facts but have no overt objective one way or the other.

Cool, carry on.

 

[throAU]

This is why we have a browser optimised for PowerPC based on the latest Firefox code.

If you further optimize it, it does even better.

I get about 2 second initial page loads on a G4 and about 6-9 seconds for the rest of the page to complete (while I'm reading the content). That's pretty good for a 2001 era G4.

You can only optimise so much - even on optimal code for example, the new crypto instructions on Sandy Bridge onward increase AES crypto processing by a factor of 30x on the same processor, if used. ditto for the hardware acceleration in them for stuff like video (quick sync), and similar tech in the more recent ARM processors.

You simply can't make up 30x processing speed improvements at the same clock speed with better code optimisation - there are limits.

It doesn't just stop there either - modern NICs have TCP checksum offload too.

Also, security requirements don't come for free either. Modern platforms (and browsers) do a lot more sandboxing, security checking on javascript, etc.

TLDR: modern web pages/browsers have a lot higher CPU processing demands, and the reasons aren't just bloat.

 

[Jordy-G5]

I'm not sure whether I'm replying to a troll or a captain obvious.

Either way I won't be replying to anything that isn't constructive or atleast has some objective value to the actual discussion at hand.

Regardless thanks for you help eyoungren disabling a lot of the background scripts related to the ads and pushing some of your optimizations has helped a lot.

Or wait maybe I should cut off my nose despite my face and just disable JS

 

[8692574]

Still use my iMac G4 for some stuff.....mostly iTunes and my iPod 1st gen who needs that to be filled.....but I use Internet from time to time as well.

 

[throAU]

I'm not trolling.

Not liking the answer doesn't make it false or a troll.

*shrug*

 

[eyoungren]

You can only optimise so much - even on optimal code for example, the new crypto instructions on Sandy Bridge onward increase AES crypto processing by a factor of 30x on the same processor, if used. ditto for the hardware acceleration in them for stuff like video (quick sync), and similar tech in the more recent ARM processors.

You simply can't make up 30x processing speed improvements at the same clock speed with better code optimisation - there are limits.

Totally true. I agree.

TenFourFox will be down to feature parity after the Firefox 45 ESR. Kaiser states that with electrolysis there's really no way we can move forward anymore. The code isn't there.

I made a post once about how much time we have left. Eventually we will probably be relegated to browsing mobile sites just as is the case with those still on OS9.
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I'm not sure whether I'm replying to a troll or a captain obvious.

Either way I won't be replying to anything that isn't constructive or atleast has some objective value to the actual discussion at hand.

Regardless thanks for you help eyoungren disabling a lot of the background scripts related to the ads and pushing some of your optimizations has helped a lot.

Or wait maybe I should cut off my nose despite my face and just disable JS

I'm not trolling.

Not liking the answer doesn't make it false or a troll.

*shrug*

No, he isn't trolling. He's just stating the obvious in answer to the central premise of this thread. Newer hardware will give us better advantages.

It's not something we are going to act on because we like our old Macs, but he's just stating the truth.

In regards to JS. Just make the optimizations in the thread, or cheat and download one of the available pref.js files. It'll help.

 

[happyfrappy]

In my opinion the PowerPC needs a cloud based browser.

Before the term "cloud" browsing(Opera Mini) ever existed, a friend and I created a old proxy-style browser which allowed you to bypass school filters via text only/low-resolution back in the late 90s, headache of attempting server side rendering is you need to use ImageMagick to handle on-the-fly image compression(similar to what T-Mobile/Sprint does with non-secure sites) and keep server load low to prevent timeout errors from the extra JS rendering. Internet in the 90s was less bloated then but you still had to deal with rare Perl/PHP glitches if the content pulled multiple sources of data(CMS such as Joomla or file databases were problematic).

Even if you can attempt HTML5 server side rendering, a PowerPC machine would need an add-on for TenFourFox for extra rendering tweak options.

 

[Jordy-G5]

To be fair posting unhelpful overly obvious answers is a little condescending. I hope nobody here is deluded enough to think that running some add-ons is going to make their computer last forever. My main rig is a custom built i7 gaming machine, I'm under no illusion of the lack of power that my hobby computer has. And I don't think the OP that he originally responded to is either.

 

[throAU]

Or wait maybe I should cut off my nose despite my face and just disable JS

You mean "Cut off your nose to spite your face", i think.

And the OP didn't post "how can i make my browsing faster". It was "why is it slow". Thus i directed my posts to answer that question to the best of my ability. Its nothing to do with RAM size. It's CPU feature set for the most part.

What is the technical reason the browsing experience on PPC is less than stellar in 2016?

You can take offence, but that's a problem of yours, not with what I posted.

 

[Jordy-G5]

Well a slow clap for you my friend. You certainly helped a lot of people today.

 

[throAU]

Well a slow clap for you my friend. You certainly helped a lot of people today.

OK what's your advice to get a 2016 browsing experience on PPC, genius?

Oh wait, you said you weren't going to reply to this thread... and appeared to miss the actual question posted by the OP to boot.

 

[happyfrappy]

To be fair posting unhelpful overly obvious answers is a little condescending. I hope nobody here is deluded enough to think that running some add-ons is going to make their computer last forever.

I think you're projecting delusions of add-ons are the solution, most add-ons discussed in this thread is about script/ad blocking. If someone uses server side rendering you'll want an add-on so you can tweak compression mode like Opera Mini had supported(low, medium & high). On Chrome there was a recent Google add-on to help 3G/LTE mobile internet enabled PCs/Chromebooks to stay within their cap, when enabled it runs each page through a Google server like Opera Mini had done for extra compression(originally called Turbo for Opera Desktop).

 

[Beavix]

In my opinion the PowerPC needs a cloud based browser.

I used something similar called a Web Rendering Proxy on Mac OS 9 and it worked pretty well. It's a script running on another computer used as a proxy (Mac or Linux) which converts the web pages into clickable GIF images. It won't work for advanced JavaScript stuff but at least it lets you load the pages correctly even in the oldest browsers.

 

[throAU]

I used something similar called a Web Rendering Proxy on Mac OS 9 and it worked pretty well. It's a script running on another computer used as a proxy (Mac or Linux) which converts the web pages into clickable GIF images. It won't work for advanced JavaScript stuff but at least it lets you load the pages correctly even in the oldest browsers.

If you're going to go to that level of hackery to browse on a PPC (or other old hardware) you may as well not reinvent the wheel, and just use screen sharing of some kind to the machine you installed the web rendering proxy on... or just browse locally from said machine.

 

[Beavix]

If you're going to go to that level of hackery to browse on a PPC (or other old hardware) you may as well not reinvent the wheel, and just use screen sharing of some kind to the machine you installed the web rendering proxy on... or just browse locally from said machine.

I know, or I could just ditch the PowerPC Macs completely and use only my rMBP. But that's not what I want.

 

[throAU]

I know, or I could just ditch the PowerPC Macs completely and use only my rMBP. But that's not what I want.

And that's fair enough too. At least you're acknowledging the reality of the situation

 

[Zotaccian]

Well, not really belonging to this thread but since I mentioned my "return to PPC" it looks like my "return" might be short lived at least with this machine:

http://s32.postimg.org/i6q2i6bwl/glitched_ibook.jpg

Machine may occasinally hang and it looks like graphics card is the problem, just tested Xbench and it hung during OpenGL test. Probably the solder contacts of the GPU are starting to go, I had similar situation long long time ago with PowerBook G4, I might be able to "cook" the board and sort of fix that but disassembling this thing is bit painful and of course you'll to assemble it also

 

[MacCubed]

Well, not really belonging to this thread but since I mentioned my "return to PPC" it looks like my "return" might be short lived at least with this machine:

http://s32.postimg.org/i6q2i6bwl/glitched_ibook.jpg

Machine may occasinally hang and it looks like graphics card is the problem, just tested Xbench and it hung during OpenGL test. Probably the solder contacts of the GPU are starting to go, I had similar situation long long time ago with PowerBook G4, I might be able to "cook" the board and sort of fix that but disassembling this thing is bit painful and of course you'll to assemble it also

What iBook is this?

 

[Zotaccian]

What iBook is this?

The one in my signature, best model from 2005. I do have another one which I haven't really tested yet, only installed OS, that one is older model but it that works I might end up just using it as my PPC machine and not even bother with this 2005 one.

That older one has Radeon 9200 which I believe doesn't have one of the graphics feature Leopard supports, can't remember the name now. CPU was 1.2GHz or something like that.

 

[Hack5190]

I used something similar called a Web Rendering Proxy on Mac OS 9 and it worked pretty well. It's a script running on another computer used as a proxy (Mac or Linux) which converts the web pages into clickable GIF images. It won't work for advanced JavaScript stuff but at least it lets you load the pages correctly even in the oldest browsers.

I'm going to fool with this when some time frees up - thanks!

 

[eyoungren]

I'm going to fool with this when some time frees up - thanks!

Of course you are!

 

[Gamer9430]

What the heck happened overnight?!

 

[Dronecatcher]

I don't see the problem myself - whether I'm browsing on my Quad, a Powerbook or slumming it on a Pearl Linux laptop - I already know their limitations so there's no surprises. In fact, I quite enjoy browsing with the script turned off when you know you don't need it.

 

[WalkerTexasRanger]

What the heck happened overnight?!

Internet happened.

 

[0248294]

I'm not sure why people that don't care much about PowerPC Macs come down in this section of MR. I've seen it happen multiple times, and it's pretty pointless. That's like going into the Intel Mac sections and preaching about PowerPC Macs. Doesn't make sense, does it?