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Guy comes and asks why his $250 Windows laptop encodes twice as fast as his MBA, and he gets lectured how that Lenovo is a POS and he is doing something wrong.
The lengths that some of the Apple fanatics go to defend Apple :rolleyes:
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Chances are, that the windows software utilizes Intel's built in hardware Quick Sync encoder and the Mac version does not.

Bingo
 
That N2940 Celeron is absolutely horrible.

Something is wrong with the software itself if you are getting such crazy results.


Your Air has literally.. and I do mean literally 2 times more powerful CPU than that Celeron.
And since MBA doesn't have any problems with cooling since long time ago, it can basically run 24/7 with such loads and be consistently 2 times faster.



Wrong. It has 2Cores/4Threads (hyperthreading makes 2 cores appear and work as 4 when needed) while crappy Celeron has 1 core per thread for 4 threads in total.

This basically means that when the software requests less than 4 threads, Celeron sucks even more than I described above cause single threaded performance is worse than horrible. And yes, again I mean it literally - it's now not 2 but 3 times worse than single threaded performance of MacBook Air.

2C/4T is MUCH better than 4T/4T for every imaginable scenario. You get all the benefits of having 4core CPU and on top of that you get much better ST performance.

So yeah to conclude I will just say that N2940 is a piece of **** to say the least and OP needs to go and try different software. Or boot to Windows with Bootcamp and use the same software he used on Lenovo if that's more convenient for him. Air should be able to convert the same file with same settings in 2 hours or so.
Not when the cores are saturated fully the hyper threading isn't available simple as that.
 
This is non-sense. 2x 1.3 Ghz is NOT better than 4x 1.83GHz for a CPU bound task like video conversion.
Yes, Hyper-threading allows each core to run two threads, but it is not the same as adding physical cores. For this particular use, the Celeron is a faster processor. Well, really it is always a faster processor, but there aren't really that many use cases that are dependent on raw CPU speed - Video conversion is. Most of the time, your CPU is sitting around waiting for you to finish reading a sentence or to type the next character of a word. When you do Video Conversion, the CPU is running full out until it finishes. 1.83 is faster than 1.3.

Are you seriously trying to compare 2 extremely different CPUs clock for clock?
i5-4250U turbo boosts to as much as 2.6Ghz but that's not even a point, you shouldn't ever look at cpu clock as your indicator of performance unless you are comparing 2 processors with the same exact architecture and other parameters which is by far not the case here.

And as for the cores...

Look, here's the most simple way of explaining why 2C/4T is better than 4C/4T:

Take a X amount of constant performance, so the total performance of particular CPU is 100% (obviously).

Now if you have a 4C/4T CPU what happens is your performance gets divided by 4 into 25% even pieces. If an high priority app requests 1 thread/c, it gets only about 25% of total processing power.

But if your CPU, with that same amount of total performance is 2C/4T instead, now what happens when an app requests 1 thread/c, it can get as much as 50% of the total CPU power if not more (you can sometimes gain several percent more depending on the turbo boost settings).

And multitasking doesn't get negatively affected by this as you still have 4 (not 2) CPU threads and CPU load per app varies accordingly by the process priority.

But you don't just magically gain performance after adding more cores to the same architecture without increasing thermal design power (W consumption), what you are doing is you are dividing the performance instead which makes it worse cause performance per core gets weaker while total performance remains unchanged.

So more cores is not better as long as you have at least 4 threads and aren't increasing the total performance.


Now as for our specific examples, crappy low-end Intel Celeron N2940 vs i5-4250U

Cinebench R10

Celeron N2940
ST: 1663
MT 5784

i5-4250U
ST: 4861
MT: 10076


One thread of i5-4250U is almost as fast as the whole four threads (which equals 4 cores) of that ****** Celeron.



Is that clear enough?
 
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Are you seriously trying to compare 2 extremely different CPUs clock for clock?
i5-4250U turbo boosts to as much as 2.6Ghz but that's not even a point, you shouldn't ever look at cpu clock as your indicator of performance unless you are comparing 2 processors with the same exact architecture and other parameters which is by far not the case here.

And as for the cores...

Look, here's the most simple way of explaining why 2C/4T is better than 4C/4T:

Take a X amount of constant performance, so the total performance of particular CPU is 100% (obviously).

Now if you have a 4C/4T CPU what happens is your performance gets divided by 4 into 25% even pieces. If an app requests only 1 thread/c, it gets only about 25% of total processing power.

But if your CPU, with that same amount of total performance is 2C/4T instead, now what happens when an app requests 1 thread/c, it can get as much as 50% of the total CPU power if not more (you gain several percent more depending on the turbo boost settings).

But you don't just magically gain performance after adding more cores to the same architecture without increasing thermal design power (W consumption), what you are doing is you are dividing the performance instead which makes it worse cause performance per core gets weaker while total performance remains unchanged.


Now as for our specific examples, crappy low-end Intel Celeron N2940 vs i5-4250U

Cinebench R10

Celeron N2940
ST: 1663
MT 5784

i5-4250U
ST: 4861
MT: 10076


One thread of i5-4250U is almost as fast as the whole four threads (which equals 4 cores) of that ****** Celeron.

Is that clear enough?
I'm not meaning to be funny but your original post harps on about hyper threading. And concludes with the celeron being a pos
 
I'm not meaning to be funny but your original post harps on about hyper threading. And concludes with the celeron being a pos
I thought I clarified that with my last post. Didn't I?

But frankly it doesn't take genius to come to that particular conclusion. If a CPU has crappy performance, you can divide it by as many cores as you like it ain't gonna make it better.
 
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I'm not meaning to be funny but your original post harps on about hyper threading. And concludes with the celeron being a pos

Guys... I don't mean to get everybody all riled up about a trivial issue like this.

I have basically confirmed that there was nothing wrong with either my MBA
or the Lenovo. I ended up asking the people at Handbrake forum and apparently
what I experienced was normal. They said that the extra cores in the $269 Lenovo
will yield faster resulgs. HOWEVER, they recommend that I don't do video encoding
24/7 on it, as the cheap laptop isn't meant for that and may overhear(or worse) :)

Back to my original question.... I kind of just want to know if I shoudl be looking into
upgrading to a new Macbook Air. (for example, the MBA Retina, if it does come out
in the next few months) :) The MBA is just right right size for me. Tried a MBA for
two weeks lately. While it was definitely much faster, I can't carry around all that extra
weight and bulk. Also tried the Macbook. It's 12-inch retina screen was definitely
beautiful, but the processing power seemed a tad slower than my current MBA.

Thanks to everybody who took the time to write replies. :)
 
Guys... I don't mean to get everybody all riled up about a trivial issue like this.

I have basically confirmed that there was nothing wrong with either my MBA
or the Lenovo. I ended up asking the people at Handbrake forum and apparently
what I experienced was normal. They said that the extra cores in the $269 Lenovo
will yield faster resulgs. HOWEVER, they recommend that I don't do video encoding
24/7 on it, as the cheap laptop isn't meant for that and may overhear(or worse) :)

Back to my original question.... I kind of just want to know if I shoudl be looking into
upgrading to a new Macbook Air. (for example, the MBA Retina, if it does come out
in the next few months) :) The MBA is just right right size for me. Tried a MBA for
two weeks lately. While it was definitely much faster, I can't carry around all that extra
weight and bulk. Also tried the Macbook. It's 12-inch retina screen was definitely
beautiful, but the processing power seemed a tad slower than my current MBA.

Thanks to everybody who took the time to write replies. :)

Sorry but that response you've got is simply not correct.

You don't have to take my word for it, just try different software if you wish to.

Most probable cause is like someone already mentioned it doesn't utilize quicksync on MBA or simply because of different in-app default settings for particular CPU or that app doesn't recognize it properly.

I would advise agains jumping into any conclusions based on a single app. Especially in this case where you are trying to compare clearly inferior processor to a superior one yet mixing them up.

Just because your camry accelerates quicker on a tarmac than a GTR on ice, doesn't make the camry a faster car.

I'am sorry but that's a perfect analogy. : P

__________


It would be nice if you could maybe upload somewhere a test file so we could tell you how much time it actually takes to render it with specific settings on our systems.

I bet on my 2011 MBA it will take less than with that Celeron.

PS. I hate it when people try to argue with facts. Just because something doesn't work the way they want there can be million reasons for it. But the first thing they choose is to assume that the very basic facts about it are all wrong and what didn't work the way they expected must be automatically inferior to whatever crap what worked for that occasion.
Just like the car that didn't want to accelerate on ice, lol.
There are literally hundreds of benchmarks and not a single one of them shows the results even remotely close to what they assume to be true. Just quite the opposite. Opposite by a HUGE margin.

Bottom line, choose what you want to believe in - facts or assumptions, till I see a test render file I'am done here.
 
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PS. I hate it when people try to argue with facts. Just because something doesn't work the way they want there can be million reasons for it. But the first thing they choose is to assume that the very basic facts about it are all wrong and what didn't work the way they expected must be automatically inferior to whatever crap what worked for that occasion.
Just like the car that didn't want to accelerate on ice, lol.
There are literally hundreds of benchmarks and not a single one of them shows the results even remotely close to what they assume to be true. Just quite the opposite. Opposite by a HUGE margin.
That's funny because you are the only one arguing with facts. OP is stating his experience and most of us believe it because the extra cores and Intel quicksync on Windows help speed up video encoding. You are the one choosing not to believe it and are going to great lengths to defend something that can't be defended. Why are you so offended that a quad core Celeron paired with Intel quicksync technology can encode video faster than a dual core i5 on OS X?
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till I see a test render file I'am done here

tumblr_lpn15wNvS61qh2hgx.gif
 
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It's the fanboy thing again. I run my rip'n on an older windows box as i previously said because it faster, much faster.
At times it simply seems some of the people just want to argue and defend everything apple. you must be pressing the button wrong, you must be sat in the wrong corner of the room, your hardware is faulty or you must be just making it up...

I think it fine the other laptop is faster, simply means you can dedicate tasks to the most suitable hardware and move on.
 
That's funny because you are the only one arguing with facts. OP is stating his experience and most of us believe it because the extra cores and Intel quicksync on Windows help speed up video encoding. You are the one choosing not to believe it and are going to great lengths to defend something that can't be defended. Why are you so offended that a quad core Celeron paired with Intel quicksync technology can encode video faster than a dual core i5 on OS X?


No, I'am not arguing with the fact that for unknown reasons OP has the results he described. There can be plenty of reasons for what he's experiencing to happen.

The problem and what I'am arguing with is the part of your absurd reasoning that I highlighted for you.

here are some actual facts for you:

  • First fact is that Celeron is much slower (look for my post above to see exact numbers)
  • Second fact is that no matter how many cores you have, it won't make a crappy CPU magically fast.
  • Third fact is that for end user there are no disadvantage of having 2C/4T instead of 4C/4T, only the opposite. It doesn't make encoding slower on otherwise a much faster CPU.
  • Fourth fact is that we didn't see the exact encoding options/settings, it's very much possible that OP unintentionally used different settings (or they defaulted to different values with different CPU), even a relatively small change can mean a big difference in rendering time.
  • Fifth fact - both of these CPUs support Quick Sync and OP said he tried rendering on Windows with bootcamp.
  • Sixth fact - rendering usually utilizes all the CPU power it can get (100% of total computing performance minus background OS tasks)
  • Seventh fact - 50% load on i5-4250U just about equals to 100% load on N2940 in terms of the actual performance you get.
  • Eith fact - during rendering no computing power gets "wasted" per se. If it has more computing power to use, it will use it to render faster. As simple as that.



Are you really gonna argue with any of those?


I'am not offended by anything, I'am only amazed when people try to explain something they have no idea about by trying to twist the basic facts or even just the basic math.
 
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Wrong. It has 2Cores/4Threads (hyperthreading makes 2 cores appear and work as 4 when needed) while crappy Celeron has 1 core per thread for 4 threads in total.

duty_calls.png
(xkcd.com)

You seem to have hyperthreading and number-of-cores completely back to front.

Start by comparing like-with-like: The Celeron N2940 with 4 cores and the N2840 from the same 'family' but with only 2 cores.

See Intel's pages on the N2940 and N2840 and click on the '# of cores' label for help:

Cores is a hardware term that describes the number of independent central processing units in a single computing component (die or chip).

The N2840 has 2 cores - 2 independent CPUs - each running at 1.83 GHz. Each core can only run 1 thread (i.e. 1 sequence of instructions) at a time, so it is 4 cores, 4 threads.

The N2940 has 4 cores - 4 independent CPUS - each equivalent to one of the cores in the 2840. Its not the same core subdivided into quarters rather than halves. Software that is written to take advantage of multi-threading (that's important) will be able to use all 4 cores to work on different parts/steps of the problem simultaneously and get the job done almost twice as fast as on a N2840 (it can't be fully twice as fast because there are other bottlenecks and system processes competing for CPU time).

Lots - most - software isn't really optimised for multi-threading, and will only use a single thread, so it won't see any advantage of 4 cores over 2 cores (although the system as a whole will benefit from better multi-tasking) but video processing is probably the biggest use-case for quad-core and beyond and usually makes the most of it (certainly, Handbrake is one of the few things that lights up all the cores of my i7).

Hyperthreading is a trick that lets 1 core run 2 threads using 'idle time' on the various components that go to make up a modern CPU core. Obligatory car analogy: its like having a single car production line producing two completely different car models at the same time - much more efficient than stopping the line, changing model, and re-starting (c.f. regular multi-tasking) but nowhere near as fast as having a completely separate production line for each model (c.f. multi-core). Its also going to be very, very dependent on the nature of the code running, and there are other ways the core could be using that idle time (speculative execution etc.) to accelerate its single-thread performance.

The processor in the MBA only has 2 physical cores, but uses hyperthreading to make that look like 4. I.e. 2 cores, 4 threads. That is not going to give the same performance as a proper 4 core, 4 thread chip with comparable cores.

As you say, comparing different CPU models is hard (and Intel's branding scheme is deliberately designed to make objective comparisons difficult) but the individual cores in a 1.4GHz i5 are not going to have vastly more raw grunt than a 1.8GHz celeron. Refinements in core design produce incremental improvements in work-per-GHz and power consumption (1.4Ghz now as good as 1.8 GHz then seems feasible). Effective use of multiple cores can easily double performance on multi-threaded tasks

I do realize my MBA is 2 years old, but still... If I buy the current MBA, will it be much faster?

Probably not, and certainly not 'night & day'. Video transcoding really is the killer app for quad- or better core processors. If the difference between 4 hours and 7 hours is costing you money then you've got a business case for a quad i7 machine. Otherwise... just leave it running overnight (Handbrake has a handy 'suspend computer when finished' option).

Yeah, "4 'real' cores" beats "2 slightly better cores + hyperthreading" is pretty much to be expected. However, I'm surprised by the huge margin by which your Lenovo beats the Air, so I would look into other contributing factors (Time Machine backup running in the background? SSD on the Air getting full up vs. 'virgin' ssd on the PC? Compressing to/from an external drive?)

In contrast, I've recently done some M2TS -> MP4 transcodes using Handbrake, with similar settings, on both my 2011 2.2GHz i7 MBP and a 2014 Lenovo W540 i7 2.5GHz, getting about 60 fps on the Mac and 70 fps on the Lenovo, which is about what you'd expect from a 10% clock-speed bump and Sandy Bridge -> Haswell.

(Plus, while the W540 certainly gave better specs-per-buck, its a horrible plasticky, sharp-edged lump with a horrible screen alongside the MBP).
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Wrong. It has 2Cores/4Threads (hyperthreading makes 2 cores appear and work as 4 when needed) while crappy Celeron has 1 core per thread for 4 threads in total.

duty_calls.png
(xkcd.com)

You seem to have hyperthreading and number-of-cores completely back to front.

Start by comparing like-with-like: The Celeron N2940 with 4 cores and the N2840 from the same 'family' but with only 2 cores.

See Intel's pages on the N2940 and N2840 and click on the '# of cores' label for help:

Cores is a hardware term that describes the number of independent central processing units in a single computing component (die or chip).

The N2840 has 2 cores - 2 independent CPUs - each running at 1.83 GHz. Each core can only run 1 thread (i.e. 1 sequence of instructions) at a time, so it is 4 cores, 4 threads.

The N2940 has 4 cores - 4 independent CPUS - each equivalent to one of the cores in the 2840. Its not the same core subdivided into quarters rather than halves. Software that is written to take advantage of multi-threading (that's important) will be able to use all 4 cores to work on different parts/steps of the problem simultaneously and get the job done almost twice as fast as on a N2840 (it can't be fully twice as fast because there are other bottlenecks and system processes competing for CPU time).

Lots - most - software isn't really optimised for multi-threading, and will only use a single thread, so it won't see any advantage of 4 cores over 2 cores (although the system as a whole will benefit from better multi-tasking) but video processing is probably the biggest use-case for quad-core and beyond and usually makes the most of it (certainly, Handbrake is one of the few things that lights up all the cores of my i7).

Hyperthreading is a trick that lets 1 core run 2 threads using 'idle time' on the various components that go to make up a modern CPU core. Obligatory car analogy: its like having a single car production line producing two completely different car models at the same time - much more efficient than stopping the line, changing model, and re-starting (c.f. regular multi-tasking) but nowhere near as fast as having a completely separate production line for each model (c.f. multi-core). Its also going to be very, very dependent on the nature of the code running, and there are other ways the core could be using that idle time (speculative execution etc.) to accelerate its single-thread performance.

The processor in the MBA only has 2 physical cores, but uses hyperthreading to make that look like 4. I.e. 2 cores, 4 threads. That is not going to give the same performance as a proper 4 core, 4 thread chip with comparable cores.

As you say, comparing different CPU models is hard (and Intel's branding scheme is deliberately designed to make objective comparisons difficult) but the individual cores in a 1.4GHz i5 are not going to have vastly more raw grunt than a 1.8GHz celeron. Refinements in core design produce incremental improvements in work-per-GHz and power consumption (1.4Ghz now as good as 1.8 GHz then seems feasible). Effective use of multiple cores can easily double performance on multi-threaded tasks

I do realize my MBA is 2 years old, but still... If I buy the current MBA, will it be much faster?

Probably not, and certainly not 'night & day'. Video transcoding really is the killer app for quad- or better core processors. If the difference between 4 hours and 7 hours is costing you money then you've got a business case for a quad i7 machine. Otherwise... just leave it running overnight (Handbrake has a handy 'suspend computer when finished' option).

Yeah, "4 'real' cores" beats "2 slightly better cores + hyperthreading" is pretty much to be expected. However, I'm surprised by the huge margin by which your Lenovo beats the Air, so I would look into other contributing factors (Time Machine backup running in the background? SSD on the Air getting full up vs. 'virgin' ssd on the PC? Compressing to/from an external drive?)

In contrast, I've recently done some M2TS -> MP4 transcodes using Handbrake, with similar settings, on both my 2011 2.2GHz i7 MBP and a 2014 Lenovo W540 i7 2.5GHz, getting about 60 fps on the Mac and 70 fps on the Lenovo, which is about what you'd expect from a 10% clock-speed bump and Sandy Bridge -> Haswell.

(Plus, while the W540 certainly gave better specs-per-buck, its a horrible plasticky, sharp-edged lump with a horrible screen alongside the MBP).
 
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The processor in the MBA only has 2 physical cores, but uses hyperthreading to make that look like 4. I.e. 2 cores, 4 threads. That is not going to give the same performance as a proper 4 core, 4 thread chip with comparable cores.

This point would be worth discussing if the cores were comparable, but they are like night and day, so let's just leave this alone for now...


he individual cores in a 1.4GHz i5 are not going to have vastly more raw grunt than a 1.8GHz celeron.

I guess that depends on what you call a "vastly more".

I would say that 300% more powerful core is definitely vastly more.

Gw7ojKF.png

(notice as well all those Atoms and other low-end CPUs all other the chart)

zijlqB9.png


(notice the desktop FX-8350 & i7-950 CPUs and where they stand in the chart.)


Source:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Celeron-N2940-Notebook-Processor.117417.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i5-4250U-Notebook-Processor.93564.0.html
(you will find rendering tests here as well totally disapproving your assumptions)





So please do define what would it take for you to really call it "vastly more". 600%? 700% increase? : )

Let's put this in a proper perspective: when building PC system, people are paying a lot of money for their new CPU to have only 30% or so better ST performance than their old one... Anything above 50% is a HUGE difference.

PS. And like I said, not that it's very relevant, but i5 turbo clock is 2.6ghz, not 1.3Ghz like you falsely stressed it several times already. It probably operates at something close to 2.6Ghz even when all the threads are fully loaded. 1.3Ghz is for power saving mostly. But let's not get carried away... What matters the most is the performance itself.

multithreaded i5 is 2 times faster, singlethreaded i5 is 3 times faster, and that's really the end of the story.

There is no point in trying to call what OP is experiencing "normal". Because it's not. And there are way more things which could have caused slower rendering than you could possibly think of.

So again, please do re-read my post again and look at the numbers if you decide to yet again try to disprove the fact that this Celeron is a much slower CPU both for ST and MT tasks. For any kind of task really.


Thanks.


Now you can go to bed. :)
 
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Are you seriously trying to compare 2 extremely different CPUs clock for clock?
No, I wasn't, but I can see how you might read it that way. I was trying to explain why what is clearly a better general use processor could get smoked in a specific instance - for video conversion which is highly optimized for parallel processing and is CPU bound.

i5-4250U turbo boosts to as much as 2.6Ghz but that's not even a point, you shouldn't ever look at cpu clock as your indicator of performance unless you are comparing 2 processors with the same exact architecture and other parameters which is by far not the case here.
I agree that turbo boost is not the point since it only applies to a single threaded application.

And as for the cores...

Look, here's the most simple way of explaining why 2C/4T is better than 4C/4T:

Take a X amount of constant performance, so the total performance of particular CPU is 100% (obviously).

Now if you have a 4C/4T CPU what happens is your performance gets divided by 4 into 25% even pieces. If an high priority app requests 1 thread/c, it gets only about 25% of total processing power.

I would look at it as multiplying the single core by the core count, but I guess I'm just an optimist.

But if your CPU, with that same amount of total performance is 2C/4T instead, now what happens when an app requests 1 thread/c, it can get as much as 50% of the total CPU power if not more (you can sometimes gain several percent more depending on the turbo boost settings).
If the i5 goes into turbo mode because a single threaded app gets priority, it shuts one core down to run the other at a higher clock. Yes, the i5 would use turbo mode and run rings around the Celeron, but we're not talking about a single threaded process, are we?

And multitasking doesn't get negatively affected by this as you still have 4 (not 2) CPU threads and CPU load per app varies accordingly by the process priority.
Ok, I'll agree with that, but we're not talking about multi-tasking, we're talking about the time to complete a single task that is capable of being executed in parallel.

But you don't just magically gain performance after adding more cores to the same architecture without increasing thermal design power (W consumption), what you are doing is you are dividing the performance instead which makes it worse cause performance per core gets weaker while total performance remains unchanged.
If you have 4 of coreA vs. 1 of coreA, yes you do magically gain performance. You also gain heat. TDP is about heat dissipation and energy consumption ( battery life), not performance. The Celeron here actually has a lower TDP than the i5, meaning that it generated less heat and used less power to perform the video conversion task. Performance core per core doesn't get weaker by adding more cores - each core has the same performance, so by adding more of them, you increase the total. What you are doing is making it possible for a multi-threaded OS or process to handle more things at once. Decent video conversion programs (like Handbrake) are very good at using multiple processes.

So more cores is not better as long as you have at least 4 threads and aren't increasing the total performance.
Hyper threading works by taking advantage of the time that a processor normally spends waiting for input on one thread to process a different thread that is ready. When you are performing a CPU bound task, like video conversion, those down times don't exist or at least not to the degree they would in other cases. So while your core/thread comparison is reasonable in the general case of 'normal use', it doesn't apply to the same extent in the specific case of a video conversion that is just going to flood the cores with all the instructions they can handle.

Now as for our specific examples, crappy low-end Intel Celeron N2940 vs i5-4250U

Cinebench R10

Celeron N2940
ST: 1663
MT 5784

i5-4250U
ST: 4861
MT: 10076


One thread of i5-4250U is almost as fast as the whole four threads (which equals 4 cores) of that ****** Celeron.
The single threaded test here is using Turbo Boost. One core is shut down and the other core is running at higher clock. You don't get to claim four of those as threads. No one is claiming that the celeron is a better processor, just that it has an advantage on one particular task.

Is that clear enough?
 
The more we dig, the more funny it gets! :)

for most part I won't even bother quoting you, reading the post above yours should be enough for you to understand why on some points you are wrong and some of your other points are just simply irrelevant in this case.

But I will quote you on this:
The single threaded test here is using Turbo Boost. One core is shut down and the other core is running at higher clock. You don't get to claim four of those as threads. No one is claiming that the celeron is a better processor, just that it has an advantage on one particular task.


First of all, turbo boost are not just for single threaded tasks. When it gets fully loaded with a reasonable app like video rendering (I mean, not prime95 stress testing), it will still stay at ~2.2Ghz turbo boosted despite ALL cores being pretty much fully loaded. And no core gets "shut down" (where did you even hear that nonsense from??)
So turbo boost is being used regardless, it's only a matter of the exact clock it's being set at.

But secondly and most importantly, show me a single benchmark test where that Celeron isn't smashed by i5.

Just because OP is having problems which can be caused by millions of different reasons (I'am repeating myself here) doesn't mean that slower processor is in fact a faster one and all the other reviews, benchmarks and tests in the world are irrelevant, not important and wrong.

You statement "Celeron has an advantage on one particular task" is factually wrong. There is no such task as far as the evidence goes.

Even in X264 HD Benchmark 4.0 - a test which should directly correspond to what OP is doing, there is simply no comparison between these 2, where again i5 is head and shoulders above Celeron like in every other test ever conducted on them (you get my point). And it's not by a little or by a big margin, it's quite literally by a huge margin.

So why is OP having those problems? hard to tell right of the bat as it can be anything (even something as simple as intensive background tasks eating CPU resources), but it's definitely NOT because of the CPU itself, its performance or number of cores/threads it has.


Now stop acting like a kid and just admit that you were wrong so we can finally move on.
 
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People, it's all because of QuickSync. The Lenovo CPU has far less raw power, the core count doesn't mean squat. Look how much QuickSync vs non-QuickSync changes things on the same CPU

mediaconverter.png


Don't things like Airplay require a CPU with QuickSync to work? That stinks if Apple doesn't leave it open for other apps to use.
 
I would say that 300% more powerful core is definitely vastly more.

...a 3x speed up is not convincing on tasks where the celeron is getting a close-to 4x boost by having more cores and is running a task where the i5's better floating point, GPU and hardware-assisted encryption doesn't help it.

Here's the geekbench comparison:

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/5596878
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/5596034

...and, yeah, the overall single-core score of the MBA is again about 3.27x higher - 851 vs. 2787.

Now look at the multicore scores: 2787 vs. 4771 - so that's only 1.7x higher. (Or, the Celeron's multi-core score is 3.3x its single-core score, the i5's score is 1.9x better than single core) - you can see just by looking at the two charts that the Celeron is getting a bigger relative speedup from multicore. So, for starters, we can knock on the head any idea that 2 cores + hyperthreading is better than 4 cores if the cores are comparable.

But secondly and most importantly, show me a single benchmark test where that Celeron isn't smashed by i5.

Your wish is my command: The pages linked show the multicore scores on individual tests making up geekbench 3. On SHA-1 muticore, the Celeron beats the i5 4625 to 4588. Similar on SHA2 Yay!

I think those are the only 'wins' but you'll see that on most of the the multicore, integer tests the i5 is only winning by 20-30% rather than your 300%. The reason for that is the celeron is approaching 4x multicore speed-up from its 4 'real' cores while the i5 is only getting 2x from its 4 'virtual' cores. The i5 is getting its huge overall margin on the floating point and memory tests.

Aside: but its 64 times slower on AES - that'd be because i5s have specific AES instructions and Celerons don't. That will be skewing the overall integer score somewhat. It's not going to affect handbrake.

Is there something else going on the original poster's Mac? Quite likely - I don't buy the 200% margin on a glorified tablet. Possibly the air is getting too toasty and throttling back, while the Lenovo just activates its ablative cooling system. However, a small margin - or a similar speed - on an integer-only task highly suited & optimised for parallel processing? I think that's feasible.

But if its just ripping a BluRay, 4 hours is still pretty rubbish :)
 
...a 3x speed up is not convincing on tasks where the celeron is getting a close-to 4x boost by having more cores and is running a task where the i5's better floating point, GPU and hardware-assisted encryption doesn't help it.

Here's the geekbench comparison:

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/5596878
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/5596034

...and, yeah, the overall single-core score of the MBA is again about 3.27x higher - 851 vs. 2787.

Now look at the multicore scores: 2787 vs. 4771 - so that's only 1.7x higher. (Or, the Celeron's multi-core score is 3.3x its single-core score, the i5's score is 1.9x better than single core) - you can see just by looking at the two charts that the Celeron is getting a bigger relative speedup from multicore. So, for starters, we can knock on the head any idea that 2 cores + hyperthreading is better than 4 cores if the cores are comparable.

MBA is able to use as much as 50% of it's total performance when running single threaded tasks, so it's obvious that it won't speed up by more than 2 times when fully loaded, but what's your point?

If this same MBA CPU had 4C/4T instead, it would still need to meet the 15W TDP requirement for the cooling, so multithreaded performance wouldn't be any better than it is, but single-threaded performance would suffer substantially (being close to 2 times worse). So in this case there are some obvious advantages of having 2C/4T instead of 4C/4T.
You can't increase the performance without increasing TDP just by screwing around (pardon my french). The efficiency is already as good as it can be for the given architecture, increasing the number of cores would only make it worse / harder to maintain efficiency if anything.

What you generally need to look at when comparing the numbers is how much worse (little) the ST performance is than MT, not the other way around. That is, as long as you have at least 2C/4T.


.

Your wish is my command: The pages linked show the multicore scores on individual tests making up geekbench 3. On SHA-1 muticore, the Celeron beats the i5 4625 to 4588. Similar on SHA2 Yay!


Don't you think that's pushing it?
I'am pretty sure if you would look at that test comparing low-power intel Atom to overclocked water cooled intel i7-6700K you would get similar results. This particular number is not at all representative of the actual CPU performance.



But yeah, at least we agree on the main point:

There is really no task which Celeron is proven to do better/faster than i5. And only in a very rare scenarios Celeron doesn't trail by a big margin. But this applies to almost all slow vs fast CPUs comparisons really. There are always specific tasks that aren't able to fully utilize most of the CPUs so the margins get much smaller. In most cases i5 is ahead by miles, including H264 rendering (read my previous posts if this sounds confusing).

PS. Almost forgot, I think I already said that before, but unless you run prime95 stress testing on MBA there is no throttling whatsover, in fact the opposite is happening - turbo boost is here to stay even at "real life" 100% loads. Cooling problems are long-time gone in MBA line.
 
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The simple answer is that Apple crammed in hot garbage for a CPU, slapped their logo on the aluminum casing and swindled you out of $1,200. You do NOT buy a Mac if you want performance, lol.
 
Guys... I don't mean to get everybody all riled up about a trivial issue like this.

I have basically confirmed that there was nothing wrong with either my MBA
or the Lenovo. I ended up asking the people at Handbrake forum and apparently
what I experienced was normal. They said that the extra cores in the $269 Lenovo
will yield faster resulgs. HOWEVER, they recommend that I don't do video encoding
24/7 on it, as the cheap laptop isn't meant for that and may overhear(or worse) :)

Back to my original question.... I kind of just want to know if I shoudl be looking into
upgrading to a new Macbook Air. (for example, the MBA Retina, if it does come out
in the next few months) :) The MBA is just right right size for me. Tried a MBA for
two weeks lately. While it was definitely much faster, I can't carry around all that extra
weight and bulk. Also tried the Macbook. It's 12-inch retina screen was definitely
beautiful, but the processing power seemed a tad slower than my current MBA.

Thanks to everybody who took the time to write replies. :)

Trivial? You think this is trivial? Young lady, you have tarnished the pride of every fanboi on the forum. (Good for you, teehee)

Most computers have a "sweet spot" of sorts. If the Lenovo does your videos faster than an MBA, OK. If you use the Lenovo every day for more normal tasks, someone's statistics will tell you it has a life expectancy of around 18 months. The MBA should last way more than five years doing the same tasks. (My fangrrl bias is showing)

I appreciate that you found a discrepancy in your expectations, then did the research to figure out why. Great analysis, use of resources, and problem solving.

MBA won't get retina. There may be a more powerful 14" rMB, but it will be at least WWDC before we find out. The 13" MBA is the best laptop in the world for people who just need to get (non-poweruser) work done. You've got your Lenovo for video encoding. Enjoy.
 
Guys... I don't mean to get everybody all riled up about a trivial issue like this.
<snip>
Back to my original question.... I kind of just want to know if I shoudl be looking into
upgrading to a new Macbook Air. (for example, the MBA Retina, if it does come out
in the next few months) :)

If your current MBA is doing 90+% of what you want it to do, then I'd say keep it. The last few updates to the MBA have really been aimed more at longer battery life and not at faster clock speeds. It really wasn't designed to be a primary video encoder, it was designed to be the laptop you could do your office work/coding on, all day, without needing to lug around a power brick.

Just my $0.02
 
Thanks for the laugh guys. :D

I'am pretty sure everyone who was genuinely interested in this subject got his proper conclusions by now with the amount of posts this thread has. And who didn't - won't.

Unless OP has some new info to add if he still wants to solve his original problem, it's probably time to stop this offtopic. Elephant in the room - CPU is not the culprit for 2+ times slower rendering OP is experiencing. Shall we move on?
 
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The better way to clear this up would be for the op to use a quicksync enabled encoder in OS X to test. Not to run Windows on the Mac and try because the
I have already tried Handbrake for Windows and Mac and got pretty much the same results.
what settings are you using because certain options need to be used to leverage quicksync in handbrake on Windows. There are not available in OS X.

Another thing to mention some Windows software use specific settings to trigger quicksync as it is 25+% quicker on encoding.
 
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