Why is Windows so bad?

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by ldburroughs, Mar 7, 2005.

  1. ldburroughs macrumors 6502

    Feb 25, 2005
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Before this thread gets out of hand with Mac fanatics saying simple minded things like Windose sucks or M$ sucks I want to pose the question in such a way so as to uncover what some of the end-user perspectives are on this subject.

    That said, here I go. I have a Windows machine and a Mac machine. I've never been infected with a virus on either machine. I don't get a critical error message on the Windows machine. I built it from the ground up and have the latest version of Windows on that machine and OS X on the mac. From an end user perspective the only differences I see are these:

    1. The user interface is more pleasant on the Mac than on the PC.
    2. Fewer programs work on the Mac. For instance, try taking a law school exam using Examsoft on a Mac or watching video streaming on some sites. It just doesn't work and no emulator with do the trick either. You can argue on this point but it is a pure waste of time.
    3. As for the Mac, its applications are cleaner and can do more with video than some of the programs I can afford on the PC. There is an obvious exception for high-end users. Take a look at Shrek and the Incredibles. Both are great to watch and from a professional standpoint you can use either platform. I believe Shrek used HPs and the Incredibles used Macs. From an novice prospective, I cannot afford a decent video editing software package on the PC (do not start to mention Pinnacle - it is horrible). The iLife package on the Mac is great.
    4. Finally, for now, if it weren't for the fact that I built my own machine, PCs on the whole generally compromise form for funciton. Mac tends to find a good balance with the two.

    Again, I don't see the dreaded blue screen Mac users claim Windows is famous for and I don't get viruses or spyware. I'm not dumb enough to open attachments that include them. Besides, if I were creating a virus that I wanted to affect the most amount of people I would not target the Mac user market. It would be a waste of my time. It would have little, if any, impact on the business or consumer world. The only thing a hacker would get would be bragging rights.

    So, from an end-user perspective can someone give me any reasons to support the contention that Mac's OS X is better than Windows XP Professional SP2? Other than pure hatred or contempt for Microsoft, the company, why do people hate Windows so much? What makes it so bad?

    Thanks to those who take the time to respond.
  2. huck500 macrumors 6502


    May 10, 2004
    Southern California

    A lot of people like to hate windows because it's what everyone uses...I've heard people say they hate the iPod for the same reason. They're just being contrary. Others just like the UI on the mac more, but generally they won't say they HATE windows. I switched to windows for a couple of years, then back because of OSX. I don't hate windows. It seems cluttered and unintuitive to me, but I've been using macs for a long time...it's just personal preference. Hating an OS seems a little silly to me... :rolleyes:
  3. Mavimao macrumors 6502a


    Feb 16, 2005
    Lyon, France
    I think it mostly comes down to past experience. With you, Windows doesn't seem that bad because you are one of those lucky ones who manage to keep a clean system. With me on the other hand, I've had so many issues with Windows (especially ME) that I just stopped using them and went to Mac. I even turned down my brother's offer of giving me his HP laptop because I didn't want to deal with Windows anymore.

    One can always give arguements about which is better overall, but in the end it all comes down to the individual user. I chose Macs.

    And now for my fanatic rant: M$ sux! Macs are so better! Niah! What's my argument? Uhhh.... Macs have a dock! Take that!
  4. Bear macrumors G3

    Jul 23, 2002
    Sol III - Terra
    When I last used a Winblows machine regularly (Win2K) I ran into the following issues:

    1) Certified drivers were stepping on each other and causing issues.
    2) System was actually unstable enough towards the end that I needed to reboot once or twice a day.
    3) Trillian ate itself and system sound settings. I had to remove and re-install trillian and then I had to go find the correct registry settings to get system sounds working again. This latter part was rather painfull with the way the registry is set up, especially around sounds.
    4) Roxio Easy CD Creator - The DirectCD drivers would keep the system very unstable - even when not using the optical drive. Removed that and the system became less unstable. (One of the reasons I'm not a fan of Toast if the Mac bundled tools will do what a person needs.)
    5) The System Registry - it's a pain to clean up. A pain to modify and a pain if something breaks.
    6) Windows Explorer crashed frequently - I only had problems with windows explorer after MS integrated IE into the OS and used it as the core for Windows Explorer.
    7) Cleaning up from applications you're removing.
    8) DLL conflicts
    9) Software that forces installing of older versions of software - Like direct x among other things - thus breaking other software.
    10) Not being able to install office without having some version of Outlook on the system.
    11) Every fricking piece of software seems to have some sort of embedded web browser that it uses. Talk about software bloat.
    12) Isn't 11 more than enough???
    13) Needing to defrag the filesystem.
    14) Viruses (Never got a computer virus, but you never know)
  5. Fredstar macrumors 6502a


    Nov 3, 2004
    Near London
    This is a good point raised, Xp was not great a few years ago but with the latest updates it really isn't that bad. We still have a family Dell that none of my family use anymore (as we all have macs now). I have never experienced the blue screen but it has completely frozen a lot of times due over the past due to various programs crashing and affecting the whole system, what i love with osx is how you can carry on doing your work if one program crashes without restarting. I hate having to worry about viruses and spyware but i do have a Firewall and a antivirus and i haven't had a virus for ages now (although still get Spyware). Using the argument Xp is so unstable is unfair, since i have got my imac i have used the Dell rarely but about once a week and it hasn't crashed once from memory, whereas my imac has had multiple app crashes, but none have caused a system crash thus far, apart from once when i put in my Shuffle.
    We all switched to a Mac for different reasons. My brother liked the imac G4 design and so bought it and likes the gui in OSx, i prefer OSx (for a number of different reasons like the layout, Expose, the stability, the ilife apps and the beautiful designs) over XP and my mum again prefers using Osx, she is not computer literate and i don't want her to worry about virus scans, virus attachments e.t.c e.t.c OSx is just so easy and intiuative to use, which is great for her
  6. ldburroughs thread starter macrumors 6502

    Feb 25, 2005
    Virginia Beach, VA
    I have to agree that the main reason I switched my laptop was the design/function aspect. I still have a good Centrino based system but it feels like, and with good reason, that it is not a complete system. It seems like the hardware is not fully integrated witht he software. The iBook I have seems like one unit, software and hardware in matrimony. I've just noticed a lot of Mac fanatics, mostly in person, who love their system. They rarely say it's nice or they simply like it. It's as if they joined some sort of cult. I'm being a bit extreme but maybe you've encountered something similar.

    I sort of feel the same way about this little machine, even more so than my custom built desktop. It is a pure pleasure to work with and it isn't bad on the eyes. I have a Gateway 200x which I used for most of law school and it was a great laptop as well (as long as you were using the extra capacity battery). I just got tired of the same old metallic cover. It just blended in with the sea of other black and silver laptops in the classrooms. When I say sea, try to picture a room of around 100 other students (all with laptops) typing away (or playing games). In the end, I ended up switching for a change of pace. My wife needed a new computer and liked my Gateway so she took it. That gave me the opportunity to try out this little iBook. I'm glad I did but I plan on keeping my desktop the way it is because there is no practical reason to change it.
  7. ldburroughs thread starter macrumors 6502

    Feb 25, 2005
    Virginia Beach, VA
    I think the Office/Outlook problem is still there but all of these others have been addressed by the newest versions of XP. From what I've heard about some of the older versions of Mac's OS, there were a lot of issues as well. OS X was really innovative for Mac. As far as XP goes, these have become non-issues. I agree that versions of Windows were absolutely horrid. Does anyone remember Windows ME? Gates should have lost his job over that one. It was absolutely horrible and completely unstable. The newer version seems to have finally fixed these problems considering it is the most widely used/targeted OS in the world.
  8. X-Baz macrumors member

    Dec 11, 2002
    Leeds, England

    The key difference is if you are under pressure to get your work done in a hurry, and you had a room full of experienced Windows-users and another room full of experienced Mac-users - the room full of Mac users would swear at their computers significantly less. That, more than anything is why the Mac is loved and Windows is tolerated.
  9. BornAgainMac macrumors 603


    Feb 4, 2004
    Florida Resident
    It takes a lot of my time

    I used Partion Magic, Norton Utilities / AntiVirus, Disk Image, updated all patches and never had a problem with viruses. I have a ton of Windows software. Since back with Win 3.1, for some reason I reach a threshold where things start to get slow or I get strange messages. Also uninstalling a program even with commerical uninstall programs sometimes causes more problems. I have done lots of reinstalls to get things right.

    Eventually, I started creating separate partitions of Windows based on application type and limit the number of Apps installed per Windows instance. This approach seemed to give me the least problems but then I had to upgrade patches for all instances of Windows and that took more time.

    And I used disk image to get back to the most cleanest copy of Windows. I also felt trapped with Windows because their Media format seemed to be locked into Windows. And I had AVI files that had codecs that I couldn't find so they would be unplayable on a new PC.

    I only bought my first Mac because of iMovie. I didn't plan on switching but after about 4 years, I switched naturally. Also I installed a ton of software on my Macs and had no issues with boot-up times or problems. Even installing tons of shareware programs. It seems to be able to handle whatever I throw at it. I think Macs give me a cheaper cost of ownership over the long haul compared to Windows.
  10. Bear macrumors G3

    Jul 23, 2002
    Sol III - Terra
    I started with Max OS X with 10.1.something. And I never had anywhere near the issues I had with Winblows.

    And while XP might be better now, I don't care to try it anymore. What I do works very well on the Mac and I don't think I could find decent repacements for all the software I use. (And I don't care to even talk about it as it doesn't matter to me.) And as strange as it may seem, but I think my annual software costs has gone done since I got the Mac - and that is with everything being licensed/paid for. (Family packs do help... laptop/desktop)

    And yes WinME was arguably the worst version of winblows ever.
  11. volfreak macrumors member

    Jan 4, 2002
    Knoxville, TN
    I'll give you 3 reasons (among the many) - and these just relate to Windows Explorer:

    1. You can't rename an open file in Windows. Try this on for size:
    1.1 Open a Word document in Mac OS X
    1.2 Go to the Finder, find the document and rename it
    1.3 Go back to Word and close the file
    1.4 Open Word and choose the file from the most recent list of files (it'll still have the old name but that will be updated once you choose the file and it opens)

    Now, try that on Windows. You get an error when trying to rename it in Explorer.

    2. You can't delete a folder in Windows Explorer if you have that folder opened and contents displayed. Here's how to try this:

    2.1 Create the following path in Windows - c:\myfiles\documents
    2.2 Add some files to the \documents folder
    2.3 Open Windows Explorer and make sure you're using the 3-pane view (different view than choosing "Explore" where you have a single pane view)
    2.4 Expand the folders so that you can see the contents of the documents folder in the right-hand pane
    2.5 Now try and delete c:\myfiles folder

    You get an error that the file/folder is in use. All you have to do to delete the folder is change the view from looking at \myfiles\documents to looking at \myfiles. Stoopid. Works without a hitch on OS X.

    And lastly, you can't rename a folder if you have a document open that's anywhere in the path. Here's the steps to see the lunacy in this:

    3.1 Create the following path in Windows - c:\myfiles\documents
    3.2 Add some files to the \documents folder
    3.3 Open one of the files
    3.4 Try and rename \myfiles\ to \yourfiles\

    You get an error. Works like a charm in OS X.

    So, here are 3 really easy ones to pick on. Of course you could add that you can't have a filename and full path that exceeds 254 characters. So you better not be using long folder names and nesting things too deep. :cool:
  12. zulgand04 macrumors regular


    Jul 16, 2002
    Northborough, MA
    i have to admit XP has come a long ways from the windows 98/ME days. I hated it back then constantly blue screen of death, driver conflicts. it was at least a 2 time a day occurence. I now use a new dell laptop with XP pro, i've had afew issues but nothing too bad. Virus' i cant stand the amount i've gotten since augest. Being on my college network is like a feeding frenzy. I do daily virus scans and every day or two come up with something that has found its way on to my computer. I wish i knew how. I've been useing macs every since my first one a Mac IIse, love them. I even have a imac in my dorm room for, my photos, video editing and web design. Would't trade it in for anything, never will. XP really isnt as bad as the past versions have been. So i will deal with the virus i get on my laptop, while my mac stays virus free.

  13. stoid macrumors 601


    Feb 17, 2002
    So long, and thanks for all the fish!

    thread for discussion

    The thread is a really long read, but it's worth the time, and makes an excellent comparison of the two OSes from a person that is knowledgeable about computers, but not GUIs.
  14. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

    Jan 6, 2004
    thanks, thats an interesting read, havnt finished it, but i like it so far...
  15. velocityg4 macrumors 601


    Dec 19, 2004
    My experience with XP has mostly been repairing. Since I'm the computer guru in my house my roomates and friends constantly bring their XP machines to me because they are loaded with spyware and viruses. Each time I run a virus scan I find two to three different viruses on their systems. These machines are 2+Ghz PCs but they get so bogged down with spyware that they make make a 233mhz iMac running OS X look like a speed demon. So they usually need XP reinstalled and the drive formatted.
    Personally I just use a Mac because of these problems with PC's. But if you are careful an XP computer is a fine platform to use. If I had one I probably would not have any problems because I know some good preventive measures to keep a PC clean. That is no porn, piracy, or IE use.
  16. ldburroughs thread starter macrumors 6502

    Feb 25, 2005
    Virginia Beach, VA
    I won't address the first one because you don't have to use IE on Windows. Many are using firefox if they don't like what IE has to offer. These issues are some that Microsoft is addressing as we type to counter the firefox movement. It is said that Microsoft will be releasing the newer version of IE prior to Longhorn because of this. As for the other issues listed they seem pretty unimportant for an operating system. In terms of major concerns there don't seem to be any. But I understand not liking these idiosyncracies and switching to OS if it bugs a person that much.

    What I've found most challenging about OS is that I can't "X" out of anything. This is the most frustrating thing in the world. I can close the window but it does not close the program. It is still running in the background. I'm sure there is some reason for this but I can't figure out what it is. Maybe I'm missing something. it just adds an extra step to actually close out of something. If I'm finished with Safarie I have to go under the Safari tab and click Close Safari. I am aware of the two key shortcut to do the same thing but why not just "X" out when I'm finished. Here, I'm getting picky but it's been an adjustment. As far as style is concerned, XP will have to do something amazing with Longhorn to even be remotely competitive in this arena. Panther is gorgeous and Tiger looks like it will continue this tradition.

    I'm just trying to figure out what all the controversy is. Rather than talking about something you don't like in IE maybe you should have said you don't like that it comes with IE in the first place. Even then, you can always use something else. And 256 character limite for a file name has never been an issue for anyone I've encountered. What type of filing would you employ with names any longer than that?

    Thanks for the thoughtful comments. Keep it coming please!
  17. ldburroughs thread starter macrumors 6502

    Feb 25, 2005
    Virginia Beach, VA
    By the way ... I'm not trying to convert anyone to Windows. I wouldn't dare! I enjoy OS X Panther a lot and am really looking forward to trying out Tiger. I'm also going to try the new version of Windows when it is released ... if it is ever released:) I just use both and was curious as to why the anomosity exists.
  18. ldburroughs thread starter macrumors 6502

    Feb 25, 2005
    Virginia Beach, VA
  19. ChrisBrightwell macrumors 68020


    Apr 5, 2004
    Huntsville, AL
    This is just not true. I've been installing Office for years and, outside of the office, never install Outlook. Do a custom install. You can install Office w/out Outlook just like you can install Office for Mac w/out Entourage.

    The amount of disinformation I see in these Mac communities regarding Windows and (to a lesser degree) PCs is staggering.
  20. GFLPraxis macrumors 604


    Mar 17, 2004

    Here you go!


  21. redeye be macrumors 65816

    redeye be

    Jan 27, 2005
    That would be huge bragging rights. Isn't writing a virus all about bragging rights?

    More on topic:
    I like OS X, the unix background is great (i'm getting more in to that part). The GUI is super.
    As for XP, i just did a clean install of my Windows system. Most users i know (who now something, but not everything - like most - about computers) do confirm formatting and reïnstalling does give you a speed boost ... i tend to agree. Tampering with the registry would take you more time than installing it for fresh.

    I did not use my Mac for as long as my PC yet, but @ the parental house the macs have been running for longer without the "reset".
    Sidenote: i also do the occasional troubleshooting etc. when my father doesn't see the light anymore (which happened maybe 2 times with X).
  22. feakbeak macrumors 6502a


    Oct 16, 2003
    ldburroughs, thanks for starting a nice comparison thread in such a rational manner. Here are my thoughts.

    Mac OS X is not better than Windows XP and Windows XP is not better than Mac OS X - they are simply different and each have their own strengths and weaknesses. I never understood why most people on this forum feel the need to declare a winner or beat up on people who like Windows - it is childish. You call it Winblows, well I can call Mac "Crapples"... it's all meaningless. Here's a few rational points on how I see these platforms.

    1. The OSes grows up:
    Windows 95, 98, ME were pretty bad operating systems in my opinion. They were clunky, they blue-screened far too often. Windows NT got the ball rolling but was not user friendly, Windows 2000 was the first version of Windows I can claim to like and I believe that Windows XP is a very good operating system, especially with SP2. Similarly, I never really like Mac OS before version 9. I think this was mostly caused by the fact that it simply takes some time for companies to build mature operating systems that incorporate a complex UI system.

    2. Security:
    Yes, Windows has more security issues and some of it due to programming holes and/or bad design decisions, such as integrating IE into the OS. I believe in the past Microsoft did not set security high enough on the priority list, but they've gotten a lot better in recent years. I think Microsoft takes more than its fair share of criticism on security lately. Windows users must take extra steps to ensure that their machine stays free of viruses and adware/spyware. Still, much of this is not Microsoft's fault. If Mac OS X had 90%+ userbase it would have many of the same problems. When you have so many people actively seeking to find and exploit the smallest security flaw in your system you will get problems. It is like a guy getting beat up by a group of thugs and then you blame the guy for limping.

    3. Write to your audience:

    Apple and Microsoft have different target markets.

    - Microsoft targets enterprises and small/medium businesses. They are fortunate that most people think "I use Windows at work, I'm familiar with it, so I'll use it at home too." AFAIK, Apple has nothing equivalent to Active Directory and the scalabilty and control that it allows in a corporate environment - not to mention the numerous server products they offer such as Exchange, Sharepoint, SQL Server, etc. I work for a software company that makes enterprise-level IT software. We have customers with 10,000+ nodes. Our software will allow you to tag a machine in our product's database based on its mac address provided by the vendor (HP, Dell) before it even shows up. You can then assign it an OS and the settings, apps you want installed. Then, as soon as the new machine arrives and you plug it into the network the server will discover it, wake it on LAN, image to the specified OS, configure the choosen settings and install selected applications specified. Within a couple of hours of arrival your new computer meets corporate IT policy standards and is ready for "Joe Worker" to use. That is what corporate IT wants and that is what Microsoft and strategic partners deliver. Another market PCs/Windows shine is gaming - it rocks on Windows!

    - Apple targets home consumers, designers and to some extent the education market. They have great multimedia software, good designs and ease-of-use. I believe if the average consumer would give Apple a chance they would enjoy their computing experience much more. OS X is easy to use, once you are familiar with it. Plus, configuring and using most of the apps is more intuitive for the average user on OS X. iLife is amazing and is what most home users want, IMO. Windows multimedia software sucks in comparison - again this is my opinion. You can some good third party multimedia software for Windows, like Adobe products for example. Still, they don't come together like iLife does and they are not as easy to use for the average consumer.

    It is not that one is better than the other - they are different products, that have been designed for specific markets. Don't put a square peg in a round hole and complain when things don't work well. Microsoft is not awful because their systems aren't the best for home users. If anything it is their marketing department should be blamed for trying to label it as something it is not. Despite Microsoft's many initiatives to get into the livingroom, I don't think they are doing a good job at all.

    I don't find either platform better than the other. I like them both. I'm willing to point out their strengths and their weaknesses. You just have to learn to utilize a platform for its strengths and avoid it in areas weakness.

    *steps down off soapbox*
  23. feakbeak macrumors 6502a


    Oct 16, 2003
    Agreed. I find the Windows/PC hate on many Mac sites too obnoxious. There are many reasonable Mac fans on this site, still some childish Mac zealots, but what can you do.

    I also have installed Office without Outlook many times. Thunderbird kicks major a$$ for home use. Outlook is very nice for corporate needs, scheduling meetings, reserving resources, public calendars, public distribution lists, etc.
  24. gekko513 macrumors 603


    Oct 16, 2003
    I don't hate windows, but I like Mac OS X a lot better. And there is one thing that is almost driving me crazy sometimes on windows and that is the %"#%@! balloon pop-ups in the bottom right corner.

    I also miss Expose and I get tired of search for the right Firefox window because some sites just love to open links in a new window. I did try a plug-in for Firefix that would open these links in new tabs instead, but the plug-in broke some sites that actually need to open in a new window and I had to uninstall it again.
  25. Timelessblur macrumors 65816


    Jun 26, 2004
    Very true. on PC forums the disinfomation is few are farther bettween and easily correct and they not going to arguback. They will state that they hate the Mac OSX and will not used it but the bashing it not as bad.

    Now you come to a Apple forum. They have tons of bashing disinfomation. They will argue back thinking they know what they are talking about. 90% of the argument are based on hear say. Almost all the unstablibiy it bases on windows 9.x line

    Of the 3 zealots out there (apple windows and linux) The apple ones are by far the worse. Most of them dont know jack about hardware. even less about windows and noughtign about linux but they think it better then windows. I get a good laugh out of apple zealots who know less about OSX than most windows users. Most of them are idoits and believe anythign Jobs or apple states and that apple is always right.

    Linus and windows Zealots are not nearly as bad. They a least know their OS really well unlike the apple ones. Linux ones know windows and use have at least used the OS they are bashing on a semi reagular bases. Most of them know hardware and they dont blindly bash other OS.

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