Why iTv will be dooooomed!!! doomed I say!

qtip919

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 24, 2002
279
0
okay, think about this from the perspective of the typical non-"super-geeks" (ie, all of us on this forum).

Most people in the real world dont care about hardware - they appreciate it, but it mostly makes them sick to their stomach to think of YET ANOTHER box near their TV

Sure, many of you on this forum wet your pants everytime you see someone hook a mac mini up to an HDTV - but you are the .2% of the market that simply doesnt matter.

Think about how many solutions we now have surrounding visual media:

1. Retail rental (hollywood, blockbuster) and for purchase (Circuit City, Fred Myer, walmart) stores
2. Mail order rental (Netflix) and for purchase (Amazon, eBay, etc)
3. On demand (Comcast)
4. Illegal filesharing networks
5. Television and pay-for networks (SHO, HBO, etc)

And this is just the tip of the iceberg

At&t is gearing up to offer TV on any device; computer, phone, hdtv, whatever

There is about a 99.9999% chance that Microsoft is about to launch a service right through the xbox360 - of which there are now over 1 million of these, and they are selling fast, and they are going to sell like crazy when M$ lowers to price to 299 this Christmas.

When this happens, what will the majority of users buy?

Theyve already got a netflix account, and they are happy with the service. They have a comcast DVR and are happily recording TV shows and ordering HD movies for 5 bucks. They bought their son a 360 for Christmas, and it can now download HD movies.

Where in the world does a iTV fit in any of this?

And something smells very fishy about this 299 price point. That seems awfully high for something that is no more than a glorified 802.11n hub with component and HDMI out. I could make one of these myself for about $150. Each component in that device costs less $15-20, and there's only about 5 things in that device....unless...Steve has something else up his hand.

I am suspicious about this device, the fact that it was sitting on top of a comcast DVR during the presentation, and the fact that it has a USB port.

Anyways, no one is going to understand this thing...its doomed
 

BornAgainMac

macrumors 603
Feb 4, 2004
6,381
3,265
Florida Resident
I like it over the Media PC. Let your Mac or PC be the media PC but not in the living room. The media PC stores and organizes the media or creates the media. Put a thin Media PC in the living room to retrieve the media. I agree the price is high.

Microsoft has it wrong on this one, but time will tell and Microsoft had a great idea to get this started.
 

hayduke

macrumors 65816
Mar 8, 2005
1,177
2
is a state of mind.
I'm skeptical too. The only thing that really makes sense to me is to add video streaming and DVR capabilities to the Mac Mini and keep the price down. The iTV as it was presented isn't that exciting.
 

suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,137
0
Ok. How many are buying content from the iTunes Store? Those people will jump at the chance to use this device.

In a way Apple has to do it. Who is going to pay $9.99-$14.99 for a movie they cant even watch the TV easily. I am sure wont be.

The gold is in the units they push, they already have a large TV show base.

It may fail, but if Apple markets it right and put in the right features it will be a hit.
 

Felldownthewell

macrumors 65816
Feb 10, 2006
1,053
0
Portland
I don't think apple is trying to be revolutionary. They are doing this in order to sell movies, not iTVs. They launched a movie download service where the movies can't be burned to DVD. This is fine for most users who will only be using it on their iPods, but what about those who want to watch their $15 movie on their TV? They don't want to go have to buy the dvd for another $20! This is Apple's answer to critics who say that the movie store is pointless because the movies cannot be played on a TV. This is also the reason Apple released a non-finsihed product- so tech reviewers and consumers wouldn't flip a bitch about not being able to watch the movies on their TVs.
 

p0intblank

macrumors 68030
Sep 20, 2005
2,548
2
New Jersey
I for one am very interested in purchasing the iTV when it's released. I've already watched a few TV show episodes with my iPod connected to my TV. This will infinitely replace that with a better solution. Also, always having the option of just playing slideshows of your photos or videos of your home movies on your TV with a few presses of buttons sounds awesome to me. No longer will I have to sync my iPod, bring the cables with me and make sure it's ready to go. With the iTV, everything will already be setup for me!

And at $299, I think that's a pretty good deal. Like I said, I'm very interested in purchasing one of these when it's released. Who's with me? :D
 

Tourist

macrumors member
Aug 7, 2006
51
0
There is an interesting analysis of Apples digital movie strategy ( an hence chance of sucess for iTV) over at el reg, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/12/apple_movie_downloads_analysis/

Basically saying that unless Apple can get more content companies to jump on board this will be a flop,

While us geeks enjoys ripping DVD's to our Mac and then streaming it back to the lounge to play on the TV, most people are quite happy to plonk the DVD into the DVD-player and play it directly,sales of Media centre PC's seem to bare this out.

I can see what Apple want to do with movies and that is to turn it into the next version of Itunes Music, but I am not sure that that Movie companies will be as eager to get into bed with Apple as the record companies were originally,

They can see how much clout it allows Apple to toss around, and I suspect that they would much rather set their own prices and terms and conditions rather than having to use a conduit like Apple to flog digital movies,

It appears that many of the music companies are becoming more and more concerned that signing up for iTunes has been a bit like a pact with the Devil for them, great in the short term, but does it mean they loose control of their destiny in the long-run

Still, iTV does look like it could be a very cool toy, esp if it will work with things like large NAS servers :)
 

Felldownthewell

macrumors 65816
Feb 10, 2006
1,053
0
Portland
p0intblank said:
I for one am very interested in purchasing the iTV when it's released. I've already watched a few TV show episodes with my iPod connected to my TV. This will infinitely replace that with a better solution. Also, always having the option of just playing slideshows of your photos or videos of your home movies on your TV with a few presses of buttons sounds awesome to me. No longer will I have to sync my iPod, bring the cables with me and make sure it's ready to go. With the iTV, everything will already be setup for me!

And at $299, I think that's a pretty good deal. Like I said, I'm very interested in purchasing one of these when it's released. Who's with me? :D

Also, if this thing ends up having the capability to record tv (DVR) back onto the mac it can stream video from, it will be amazing! The new TiVO is $800, and if you could stream it back to a computer to which you can attach unlimited external drives, the $299 is a great deal.
 

balamw

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 16, 2005
19,360
963
New England
Amazon.com's reaction

One Last Thing

Apple's Steve Jobs likes to add a bit of drama to these product announcement events, holding the big surprise to the very end and introducing it with his now-expected tag line, "And one more thing...." And true to form, Jobs hit his mark and introduced Apple's anticipated movie download service through its iTunes music store. However, Jobs wasn't finished:

"But there is one last thing."

And with that, he introduced a sneak peek at a product currently code-named iTV. Essentially a television set-top receiver, the iTV looks to offer a bridge between your computer (a Mac, naturally) with 802.11 Wi-Fi connectivity--enabling you to stream video content from your home office computer to the TV in your living room. A bit flatter and wider than the current Mac mini, it will include component video and HDMI audio/video connectivity, providing high-def video capabilities.

It will also stream your other digital content--photos, podcasts, and music from an iTunes library--to your TV and entertainment center's receiver. And Macworld noted that the box's software looks to be an advancement of Apple's current Front Row multimedia control application (to which I give loud applause--it's just too rudimentary for me in its current version 1.0). Look for the iTV (or whatever it may be called) sometime in the first quarter of 2007.

--Posted by Agen
Amazon of course stands to win either way, since they are a major Apple hardware retailer, but also have unbox...

B
 

FredClausen

macrumors regular
Aug 7, 2006
170
0
KALM
I "watched" the Steve Jobs show this morning via this website. I was so excited when I saw the word "iTV" show up on the upcoming product announcements. I thought to myself "finally, this loud, obnoxious MythTV setup I have can be replaced. $299 is a STEAL to do that."

But, alas, I was wrong. I was under the (probably, at the moment this is true) mistaken assumption that this was going to have some type of TV capture. It doesn't. All this is apparently is a front end to FrontRow. Now I'm not naive. Those big media companies will have their panties so wadded up at the thought of another device, especially one backed by Apple and SJ, that recorded media from their broadcasts.

I assume that USB port on the back is SJ's way of trying to help us out. We can get an El Gato USB TV capture thing and plug it in. It now "integrates" with Front Row. I assume the integration with FR will suddenly get better for the El Gato software and that there is/will be the ability to record content on to a network share. At that point we will have a nice, complete, fast, solution for getting all of the media we have in one place.

I want desperately to get this home brew MythTV crap out of my room. I used to be a hardcore geek tweaker, and Myth is great for that. And truth to be told Myth is actually flirting with the line of being fully usable by a non geek. Hardware setup is for those of us who are geeked out, but alas, that is something that will never change.

I'm tired of MythTV for a few reasons. The biggest thing that really gets my Irish up is that I use Apple's iLife suite for managing my Pics, Music and Videos. I want to be able to play those mps and videos, see my pics and listen to my music on my Myth box. And Myth has the ability to do all that built in. That is, if I use their software with their library format. Ain't gonna do it.

I'd like to replace my Myth box with something really Apple like. Quiet, small, can use my existing content with little to no hassle, and most important for ANY HTPC solution is the ability to record TV. And Myth truly owns here. The smart scheduler is amazing. Myth does an acceptable job nuking commercials for me, but thats a sidebar. Any box I get has to be able to do that, period. If Apple can't give me PVR functionality, I'm not interested.

If the price was $299, and that included the announced iTV functionality + PVR, I'd be hooked. But $299 to basically have iTunes on your TV? You've got to be kidding.
 

balamw

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 16, 2005
19,360
963
New England
FredClausen said:
If the price was $299, and that included the announced iTV functionality + PVR, I'd be hooked. But $299 to basically have iTunes on your TV? You've got to be kidding.
Think about it. The box is quite similar to a Mac mini without the drives, and probably has to have some flash to boot from. The choices are a $299 iTV or a $599+ Mac mini. The $299 price point makes sense (IMHO).

You won't likely be able to add PVR functionality to it without external storage, so the functionality of a single USB port is questionable. (Heck even my HDTV has a USB port labeled "service", which is probably there for firmware upgrades and the like.)

Also note the complete absence of S-video/composite outputs. This is not intended for connection to an SDTV. It's a product squarely aimed at the high end HTDV market.

B
 

Zwhaler

macrumors demi-god
Jun 10, 2006
6,736
986
Sorry if this is a stupid question but will you be able to watch actual rented / bought DVDs through iTV? Like you will slip the DVD into your computer and watch it through iTV? If you can't do that, I aint buyin'
 

savar

macrumors 68000
Jun 6, 2003
1,952
0
District of Columbia
qtip919 said:
Sure, many of you on this forum wet your pants everytime you see someone hook a mac mini up to an HDTV - but you are the .2% of the market that simply doesnt matter.
I think you have it backwards...this is a device for the 99.8% of people who aren't hardware nerds. This box looks like it maintains the simple, consistent interface of itunes and ipod, and integrates all of the things like tv, movies, trailers, music, podcasts, PHOTOS (a big one in my mind), etc, AND presents with the nicest, smoothest interface I've ever seen on a TV.

You can reproduce all of this functionality with a hodgepodge of other products, but I think Apple will score big points for slickness and comprehensive bundling...not to mention itunes store/ipod integration. All the cool stuff you could do with your mac before you can now do in your living room with your TV and receiver.

I'm wondering what the USB port is for...external storage? Input devices?

This is a crazy little device. What OS is it running? It's got to be something like OS X to have graphics like that.

I don't know about 802.11n. Does that mean Apple expects us all to buy new Airport cards at the same time that we buy this box? I stream video across an 802.11b wireless bridge. Apple is only talking about 640x480 video, no reason that can't be done with existing technology.
 

savar

macrumors 68000
Jun 6, 2003
1,952
0
District of Columbia
Tourist said:
I can see what Apple want to do with movies and that is to turn it into the next version of Itunes Music, but I am not sure that that Movie companies will be as eager to get into bed with Apple as the record companies were originally,
I agree with what you're saying. I'm sure they don't want to get in on this. That's why Apple is launching without finalizing deals with all (or most) of them. But remember iTunes Music was the same way. They were missing several big labels, and even the labels they did have didn't license their entire libraries. When that competitor launched (can't remember what it was called now, the one with Tommy Lee naked advert in Times Square) several months after iTunes, it actually had a significantly larger library available.

Apple wins in time, however, and movie companies will be swayed to come on board by sheer weight of the iTunes, iPod, and soon to be iTV movement.
 

faustfire

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2002
560
0
California
Unless this thing ends up playing hdtv content, in my opinion it's dead in the water.* I don't even see the draw in buying downloadable movies for the same price as you can buy them in the store.* Buy them in the store, get better quality as well as a physical DVD that can play anywhere, and then rip them to play on your ipod.* Makes way more sense to me.
 

Killyp

macrumors 68040
Jun 14, 2006
3,859
3
iTV = iPod for TV.

iPod = huge success
iTV = huge success


People will be really happy if they can watch all the stuff from their iPod on their TV. Most can't be bothered to keep on plugging in their iPod (most don't even seem to know you can plug an iPod into a TV)...
 

swingerofbirch

macrumors 68040
To the poster who asked what OS the box is running, if it is streaming video from the Mac, isn't it conceivable that it is streaming everything, including the FrontRow software from the Mac. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to upgrade the FrontRow software on the device later on.

I got the impression that the iTV is nothing more than an Airport Express with HDMI and composite out.

Could be wrong.
 

liketom

macrumors 601
Apr 8, 2004
4,156
23
Lincoln,UK
there is a few reasons why this will be a big hit for apple -
1: they will have a simple way of getting your content to your tv
2: us mac users will buy them like crazy

this will be a big big hit for 2007
 

sushi

Moderator emeritus
Jul 19, 2002
15,658
3
キャンプスワ&#
liketom said:
there is a few reasons why this will be a big hit for apple -
1: they will have a simple way of getting your content to your tv
2: us mac users will buy them like crazy

this will be a big big hit for 2007
Agreed.

I remember when the iPod was introduced and how folks said it:
- Was too expensive!
- Had limited audio quality with MP3s and ACC
- had limited storage space
- etc.

And look where we are today.

If I can get my content from the computer onto a TV easily, then why not.

Face it, the future is digital with no media. It will happen. Not tomorrow for sure, but it will happen down the road. Apple wanted folks to know where they are headed to preclude customers going with another solution.

As for DL speeds, they will only get faster. What SJ stated would take 30 minutes to DL with a 5Mbps line would only take about a minute and a half with FTTH which is currently available in some places around the world. DL speeds will only get faster.

IMHO, convenience is what folks want and iTunes with iTMS delivers the best solution at this time.
 

Frogurt

macrumors member
Sep 8, 2006
38
0
swingerofbirch said:
To the poster who asked what OS the box is running, if it is streaming video from the Mac, isn't it conceivable that it is streaming everything, including the FrontRow software from the Mac. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to upgrade the FrontRow software on the device later on.

I got the impression that the iTV is nothing more than an Airport Express with HDMI and composite out.

Could be wrong.
Of course then you woud have to be running a computer 100% of the time, big design flaw. It doesn't have to have a full on OS (just like iPods). The big thing I see is Apple avoiding getting caught by the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray battle. Someone could hook up an external drive into either the USB port or the Ethernet on the iTV and then play movies on their TV, or stream it to their Mac. If in a year Blu-Ray is the standard it could be a Blu-Ray drive, or vice versa for HD-DVD. Same goes for hooking up a large external hard drive/file server.

Personally, even as a geek, I would prefer that. One computer with a file server rather than two computers. Less to deal with; one keyboard, one mouse, one set of computer preferences etc.
 

McT

macrumors newbie
Sep 7, 2006
19
0
I hope this works ;)

As a relativley young college student, I have resolved never to buy another TV again until I can upgrade to probably an LCD flat screen. By the time I'm ready that's all they will sell anyways I'll bet...

Point is, if I can snag an Apple Cinema Display, run my MB into it and download/stream/whatever - movies, music, games, photos, HDTV perhaps and all through a gloriously simplistic stylish Apple interface!?

Mmmmmm Apple interface :D

Integrating entertainment exclusively through computers is the future imho.
 

qtip919

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 24, 2002
279
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Killyp said:
iTV = iPod for TV.

iPod = huge success
iTV = huge success


People will be really happy if they can watch all the stuff from their iPod on their TV. Most can't be bothered to keep on plugging in their iPod (most don't even seem to know you can plug an iPod into a TV)...
If I had two-hundred arms, I still wouldnt be able to count the amount of assumptions you made with your first two sentences

ipod as a huge success for many reasons. For instance, everyone was already downloading songs off of the internet. And people who werent, were envious of those who could.

TV shows are totally different. There's something very personal and portable about music.
 

qtip919

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 24, 2002
279
0
swingerofbirch said:
To the poster who asked what OS the box is running, if it is streaming video from the Mac, isn't it conceivable that it is streaming everything, including the FrontRow software from the Mac. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to upgrade the FrontRow software on the device later on.

I got the impression that the iTV is nothing more than an Airport Express with HDMI and composite out.

Could be wrong.
The sad thing is: youre exactly right.I still dont see why the 300 dollar price point.
 

qtip919

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 24, 2002
279
0
liketom said:
there is a few reasons why this will be a big hit for apple -
1: they will have a simple way of getting your content to your tv
2: us mac users will buy them like crazy

this will be a big big hit for 2007
1: Simple? Simple for geeks, terrifying for average users who never learned how to program their VCR.
2: Apple will make literally thousands of dollars...yipeee...what, are you going to buy more than one or something?