Why Liquid Glass looks so good

[amancalledsun]

And? A Wikipedia article has what to do with the fact that if innovators hadn’t created a GUI to make computers more accessible the GUI wouldn’t exist? If they had just strictly adhered to the “it works, if it isn’t broken than never change it” kind of ideas being tossed around in this discussion, then we would still be stuck on command line because that predated the GUI and I’m sure there were people that thought the command line was better than GUI, heck, I know there were, because there still are some such people…

You completely missed the point of my comment. None of this was done because it was "fun", it was done to improve human-computer interactions. I suspect this precedes your time on this planet, but computers were not generally used by the average person until at least the mid-90's. That's 20+ years after the GUI was first introduced as concept.

The “fun” part has been relevant to the discussion for decades, as GUI is designed for average users of these platforms. They aren’t designed for the dozen of people who prefer command line or such… They’re designed for the millions/billions of users who are only moderately tech savvy, and want their device to not look like an abandoned project from the 90s or early 2000s… Even in this very forum, there were many complaining about how stale the flat design used since iOS 7 had become. I think the majority of average users wanted a design refresh…

Yes, you agree with me that the last couple of decades are when Tim Cook stepped into it...

You keep asserting what average users want, no data or sources to back up that assertion. Please provide links and references as per the forum rules.

 

[Kal Madda]

You completely missed the point of my comment. None of this was done because it was "fun", it was done to improve human-computer interactions. I suspect this precedes your time on this planet, but computers were not generally used by the average person until at least the mid-90's. That's 20+ years after the GUI was first introduced as concept.

The GUI was introduced to make computers more accessible and simple for average people to be able to use… The point is, GUI is aimed at average users, not power users, though it generally does make some accommodations for them as well. But when a company is deciding how they will design their system, they are going to prioritize the majority of their customers, and with obvious reason… And my age isn’t relevant to the discussion, just as yours isn’t either…

Yes, you agree with me that the last couple of decades are when Tim Cook stepped into it...

No, because Cook has only been CEO for about a decade and a half, not a couple decades. And making visually pleasing UI that appealed to average users was important long before Cook stepped in, it was something Jobs was trying to do as well… 🤷🏼‍♂️

You keep asserting what average users want, no data or sources to back up that assertion. Please provide links and references as per the forum rules.

False, I have pointed out the fact that companies like Apple are going to and should prioritize average users of their platforms… I never claimed to know what every average user wants… Apple, however, actually does have data about what their average users want, and so is in the best position to determine which designs or features appeal best to their user-base… Apple is in a far better position to determine how to manage their products and platforms than you are…

 

[jerry78]

There’s something calming about it. The subtle motion and layered depth make the interface feel less rigid and more organic — almost like it belongs to the hardware rather than sitting on top of it.

 

[capamac]

Must be why there only about 1.2B to 1.56B iPhones in daily use worldwide.

I don't really care what Apple does or doesn't do with iOS. iOS i find overly simplistic, off-putting, and I ignore it as much as possible. It's a "baby OS."

 

[henkie]

A wrench makes sense for a tool/utility… A smiley face for a file manager?

But at least add something that makes it clear it is about the disk. There are a dozen of tool apps. And the latter: I agree it should not be a smiley face. But that would go against decades of iconography on the Mac. New Mac users might find the smiley face illogical though.

 

[TumbleDryer]

Everyone is bored of flat design; Every aspect of technology except design language has evolved in the last 12 years. We need the software to look as modern as our shiny new iphones. ☺️☺️☺️

Please stop referring to it as 'flat design'. It was a term coined by people that don't know what they're talking about and then picked up by more people that know even less about design and its purpose.

 

[Diskutant]

But everything in it is so flat. There might be flat sheets over flat sheets, but those sheets are still flat. Including everything on them. Flat flat flat.

 

[TumbleDryer]

But everything in it is so flat. There might be flat sheets over flat sheets, but those sheets are still flat. Including everything on them. Flat flat flat.

Minimalism in design emphasises simplicity and functionality. It strips away unnecessary elements to focus on what is essential. This approach creates a clean and clear aesthetic that enhances user experience.

 

[Diskutant]

It took away everything that was necessary for me, like visual clues on what a button is, to giving joy and happyness when using it, now with minimalistic design everything is a chore. It decreases the user experience for me. Minimalistic design makes me sick.

 

[HouseLannister]

Everything old is new again

 

[Diskutant]

Everything old is new again
View attachment 2606320

Compared to the then current Aqua it was really ugly. But compared to everything we have now, it looks like the most beautiful thing ever.

 

[Kal Madda]

But at least add something that makes it clear it is about the disk. There are a dozen of tool apps.

Sure, I have nothing against doing something like adding a disk behind the wrench or something to make it clearer it’s about disks. Though it is getting harder to represent a disk. But sure, I don’t mind if they make it a bit more clearly indicate it’s a disc utility.

And the latter: I agree it should not be a smiley face. But that would go against decades of iconography on the Mac. New Mac users might find the smiley face illogical though.

Yeah, I’d like to see Apple replace the smiley face icon with the folder icon we get on all of Apple’s other platforms. 👍🏻. I know I wasted far too much time looking for the file manager on macOS when I first switched, and I had to take the time to look it up. I was pretty upset with Apple’s design team when I came to find out that Apple expected me to look at a smiley face and think “file manager”. I thought for sure that was an AI assistant or social app or something. Never for a second did I think that was a file manager. And since then, I’ve had to tell every family member or friend who’s switched to the Mac where to find the file manager because they had the same problem. So it would be great if Apple changed that. 👍🏻

 

[Kal Madda]

Please stop referring to it as 'flat design'. It was a term coined by people that don't know what they're talking about and then picked up by more people that know even less about design and its purpose.

Anyways, the flat design Apple used since iOS 7 was beginning to get stale…

And yes, I do know what I’m talking about, and I do know about design. I like minimalist design as much as the next guy, but minimalist design doesn’t have to be 2D. Minimalist design can have some layering and visual depth. And that’s what Liquid Glass does, it adds some depth to minimalist design. 🙂👍🏻

 

[Kal Madda]

Minimalism in design emphasises simplicity and functionality. It strips away unnecessary elements to focus on what is essential. This approach creates a clean and clear aesthetic that enhances user experience.

Minimalism can be taken too far though. And minimalism doesn’t necessarily mean flat and 2D…

 

[TumbleDryer]

Minimalism can be taken too far though. And minimalism doesn’t necessarily mean flat and 2D…

No it can't. The clue is in the name. It uses the minimal amount of elements to remain functional.

 

[Kal Madda]

No it can't. The clue is in the name. It uses the minimal amount of elements to remain functional.

Text as buttons is often an example of minimalism taken to far… And minimalist design can also lead to tools or features being harder to use or access. It “remains functional”, but isn’t always pleasant… So yes, minimalist design can absolutely be overdone…

In the name of leaving “the minimal amount of elements to remain functional”, let’s just get rid of GUI altogether… After all, it will “remain functional”… 🤷🏼‍♂️

The truth is, many want the GUI on their devices to look pleasant and nice, and many find Liquid Glass to be more visually pleasing than the stale design we had since iOS 7. The UI needed a refresh badly if it wanted to remain competitive and not look dated besides competing devices… 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[TumbleDryer]

Text as buttons is often an example of minimalism taken to far… And minimalist design can also lead to tools or features being harder to use or access. It “remains functional”, but isn’t always pleasant… So yes, minimalist design can absolutely be overdone…

In the name of leaving “the minimal amount of elements to remain functional”, let’s just get rid of GUI altogether… After all, it will “remain functional”… 🤷🏼‍♂️

One could argue that an icon is more minimal than text for a button. The icon could be ambiguous (much like many we find in Tahoe today) thus leading to being 'harder to use or access'. There's loads of threads about this very problem with Liquid Glass.

When text is used it is clear what the function is which is why by default icons usually come with text.

If you're referring to encompassing a button text in some kind of matrix so it appears so you know it's a button, what is the difference between a pill shape matrix and the colour of text to denote a button? They are both simple visual clues. Once you know a pill shape is a button it's no different from knowing that simple blue text is also a button but the simple blue text is the more efficient option as it adds less visual clutter. i.e. the matrix is not needed to represent a button.

Regarding get rid of the GUI - that's a bit of a silly thing to say when its the GUI that we are discussing.

 

[SalisburySam]

Heck, GUI wouldn’t even exist if innovators like Apple hadn’t decided to make computers more “fun” and accessible by creating and implementing GUI.

Xerox begs to disagree. Their Xerox STAR system was reportedly the first commercial graphical interface on a display screen, developed by their storied Palo Alto Research Center. I worked with a test-bed of about 30 screens, 1 per user, a radical approach back in the early days of shared word processing computers like Wang. The connected Ethernet cables were 1”/2.5cm in diameter, the attached floor computers generated enough heat to make toast, and there wasn’t much software. But they were amazing, and completely untrained users found them incredibly intuitive and quickly leveraged what little software did exist.

Apple’s “Lisa” development team saw the Xerox system at the 1981 National Computer Conference, returned home, and converted their desktop manager to the icon-based one modeled on the STAR system.

The Xerox STAR’s legacy is not only the GUI, but Ethernet as a networking protocol which quickly took over from IBM’s token-ring topology, the desktop metaphor, and networking services like filing and printing, all taken for granted by the late ‘80s and certainly today.

No, Apple did not create GUI.

 

[Kal Madda]

One could argue that an icon is more minimal than text for a button. The icon could be ambiguous (much like many we find in Tahoe today) thus leading to being 'harder to use or access'. There's loads of threads about this very problem with Liquid Glass.

There isn’t enough room in App UIs to make every button or tool a text button… It would waste tons of space. Imagine if apps like Photoshop had to use an extra-wide side toolbar to display text buttons for every tool. Furthermore, symbols are often faster to recognize and associate with things, which is why most traffic sign use symbols rather than text… And a few random bloggers writing screeds about symbols in Liquid Glass doesn’t mean it’s bad… 🤷🏼‍♂️

When text is used it is clear what the function is which is why by default icons usually come with text.

Yes, but text also takes longer to read. I wouldn’t even want to imagine trying to use a tool like Photoshop with all text buttons and no symbols or glyphs… 🤦🏼‍♂️ Text along glyphs or symbols is one thing, but in place of it would not be great…

If you're referring to encompassing a button text in some kind of matrix so it appears so you know it's a button, what is the difference between a pill shape matrix and the colour of text to denote a button? They are both simple visual clues. Once you know a pill shape is a button it’s no different from knowing that simple blue text is also a button but the simple blue text is the more efficient option.

Yet it wasn’t always blue text. And not all blue text is a button either. Clearly defining a button within a space makes it far easier to identify an option as a clickable button. And Liquid Glass is handling this better in many cases…

Regarding get rid of the GUI - that's a bit of a silly thing to say when its the GUI that we are discussing.

Well, if the idea is to use the least amount of required elements required for functionality, then that’s kind of the logical conclusion of that thinking… Fans of the command line could make all the same arguments “GUI is more than necessary and isn’t minimalist enough”, “GUI should be stripped away because it uses more of my computer’s resources than command line”, etc. Oh, and don’t forget, “command line works fine, if it isn’t broke don’t fix it”… Basically all of the arguments people are making about Liquid Glass could also be made about GUI in general vs command line… 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[Kal Madda]

No, Apple did not create GUI.

And I didn’t say Apple did. Reread my comment. I said innovators like Apple… Apple didn’t invent GUI, but I do think it’s largely fair to credit them with the widespread popularization of GUI, and championing of it.

 

[capamac]

Quote from Foci in this video:

“What i like most about Linux is that feeling that i’m in charge. I can make the changes that I like. If I want to remove something (like Liquid Glass) I can do that. If I want to add something I can do that. It’s my computer.”

 

[Luftkopf]

Minimalism in design emphasises simplicity and functionality. It strips away unnecessary elements to focus on what is essential. This approach creates a clean and clear aesthetic that enhances user experience.

I’m glad you like it, but from my perspective instead of saying it “enhances user experience” it is dreary. Dead and lifeless. Boring. It’s just too flat.

Quote from Foci in this video:

“What i like most about Linux is that feeling that i’m in charge. I can make the changes that I like. If I want to remove something (like Liquid Glass) I can do that. If I want to add something I can do that. It’s my computer.”

What I hate most about Linux is that it’s such a fragmented experience that is too much work to maintain. If I want to use a computer for the sake of using a computer, sure, I’ll go back to Linux to cosplay a sysadmin. You’re forever tweaking things to get anything to work.

If I want to use a computer to do a thing, and enjoy myself while doing it, I’ll stick to macOS.

Linux’s endless reconfigurability is part of its problem for me. It’s just too exhausting.

 

[amancalledsun]

There isn’t enough room in App UIs to make every button or tool a text button… It would waste tons of space. Imagine if apps like Photoshop had to use an extra-wide side toolbar to display text buttons for every tool.

I am not advocating for text buttons, in case you misunderstand my question, but when you first started using Photoshop (I am assuming that you do use Photoshop or have at some point, as a designer), did you instantly know the function of the symbols for each tool icon? Or did you have to, you know, actually *learn* how to use the application? I ask because this is the same issue you have with the Finder icon. Sometimes people won't RTFM before they use something new. I'm not convinced the decades of history behind the smiley Mac icon are worth throwing away because people can't take the time to learn something. You could make similar arguments about many other application icons (Safari comes to mind... what does a compass have to do with web browsing?), but I would otherwise agree that iconography is intended to convey simple meaning and identification of function.

 

[amancalledsun]

In the name of leaving “the minimal amount of elements to remain functional”, let’s just get rid of GUI altogether… After all, it will “remain functional”… 🤷🏼‍♂️

You could speculate that this is where we're headed in the next years/decades. Somewhere between Neurolink direct communication with no visual interface whatsoever (either CLI or GUI) and AI just doing it all for you with voice or thought activation. Actual work or thought? Not required. Hmmm, suddenly Wall-E is starting to look prescient.

 

[boppin]

Hi everyone. A question first: How old are you? I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but I'm 40 now and I see absolutely no point in complaining about anything, because I'm familiar with the fracture at 10.4 and the subsequent ones. Ugh. I think I'm getting old.