Why MacBooks are not using the latest hardware available?

[maxsix]

There are some basic facts about how Apple operates that rarely change. If those are accepted and one refrains from setting expectations the user satisfaction level is reasonable. Disappointment is minimized.

Apple practices their own brand of logic. Sometimes it not logical at all, in the conventional sense. Time to remember Apple doesn't always make sense.

Here's a recent example. I decided to use the new and improved Notes app that comes in El Capitan 10.11. I migrate a few thousand Evernotes into the App.

Upon launching Notes I notice the default font size is tiny. About 8, maybe 10. So I open the font window to increase font size. Something I've done a hundred times on all sorts of programs / apps etc.

I look for the button to set the new size as default only to find no provision for that logical simple step. Thinking its hidden somewhere I look and look. I Google, I do research which reveals nothing.

I call Apple, they don't know. I ask to escalate the call. Supervisor / Senior tech is baffled! He goes looking while I'm on hold. Returning he says Apple does not allow default size adjustment even though they've included fonts and everything but a way to save the change as default.

Apple... It just works

 

[simonsi]

There are some basic facts about how Apple operates that rarely change...Returning he says Apple does not allow default size adjustment even though they've included fonts and everything but a way to save the change as default.

I was amazed by this but its true, no ability to set a default, couldn't find any way via Accessibility in Preferences, or by editing the available font sizes via the Notes format menu item...hmmm

 

[maflynn]

Upon launching Notes I notice the default font size is tiny. About 8, maybe 10. So I open the font window to increase font size. Something I've done a hundred times on all sorts of programs / apps etc.

This type of behavior is what drives me away from apple products. They overhaul a given app and remove functionality. In a hardware sense I suppose you can make a case that they do that by virtually sealing the computers so consumers cannot change anything.

Its the Apple way or the highway, and I see that mentality getting worse.

 

[spacebro]

I thought the apple development process would involve a lot of white boards, meetings, state diagrams, etc. If they released something with an oversight like this, their process must not be so rigorous.

 

[leman]

If you need default font setting for Notes, please submit a bug report to Apple! They will surely add it if there is enough user interest. I can easily imagine that a feature like this can slip through the design process because frankly, its not an obvious one.

 

[spacebro]

It also says something about the apple process that a missing setting is the most major thing we can whine about.

 

[Max(IT)]

Just went checking online for laptop for my son this morning and found out that most PC 15.6 and 17.3" laptops already are using the 6th generation quad core i7 processor, NDIVIA 985 with 4GB VRAM and dual channel DDR4 RAM as well as bluetooth 4.x long range, USB3.1 ports, HDMI 2.x, etc for US$1,500, while the MacBook 15" hardware is already 3 years old and for US$2500. Does anyone knows when Apple will restart being the technology pioneer that used to be?

Steve your boldness, risk taking and dream are truly missed!!

Totally wrong assumptions.
Current MacBook Pro 13" lineup use Broadwell CPUs released this year... There's nothing "3 years old" in any MacBook Pro, even the 15" with older quad cores (but there are good reasons not to use the latest Skylake)
Do you want a notebook impressive only on spec list ? Go buy one of those "$1500" Windows notebooks.
I'll stick with a MacBook Pro...

I wrote both 15.6" and 17.3" PC laptop hardware, performance and pricing beat hands down the 15 MBP, that they weight 1 pound more is irrelevant since I dont plan to work carrying it all day around

Then you aren't the target for Apple 's notebooks....

So Strong Performance is not needed by us macusers?

Strong performances are what I'm getting from my MacBook Pro

 

[simonsi]

This type of behavior is what drives me away from apple products. They overhaul a given app and remove functionality. In a hardware sense I suppose you can make a case that they do that by virtually sealing the computers so consumers cannot change anything.

Its the Apple way or the highway, and I see that mentality getting worse.

Im not sure that functionality was ever there but since the platform offers various Free notes Apps im not sure having a requirement that Apple's offering must meet all needs is sensible. After all it has always been Apple's way or the Windows Highway, nothing new there but it takes 5mins to install Evernote etc if you want more, free funtionality...

 

[maflynn]

Apps im not sure having a requirement that Apple's offering must meet all needs is sensible.

I was sounding off more on their recent behavior in general, where as the notes are but one example. You're right, there are plenty of alternatives

 

[maxsix]

This type of behavior is what drives me away from apple products. They overhaul a given app and remove functionality. In a hardware sense I suppose you can make a case that they do that by virtually sealing the computers so consumers cannot change anything.

Its the Apple way or the highway, and I see that mentality getting worse.

Yes indeed sadly it is getting worse.

I get a very distinct feeling they are inching towards full convergence of iOS and OS X, despite their comments that they're simply sharing features of iOS customers are fond of. While that seems to be true, it's the dumbing down of OS X by errors of omission that bothers me. The focus on adding fluffy consumer facing features like notifications combined with failing to add anything to truly benefit computer users is a clear indication that Apple is so busy profit taking they've chosen to ignore computer centric Apple users.

I have such a long history with Apple it's rather natural to want that to continue. But my frustration with the company culture, the way they do things, and often more importantly... what they do _not_ do, continues to intensify. Driven by potential I can always see a positive side, and when they don't do anything to take advantage of a significant opportunity they've created, its just disgusting.

Here's an example.
iPhones have always been quite thin. Smartphones are known as power hungry. Apple could easily add a bit of thickness, include a larger battery and grab well earned headlines as the company with long lasting smartphones. A huge advantage that anyone with a smartphone would appreciate. The buzz that would generate would be terrific.

A universal complaint solved by Apple. Man or Woman, I don't know a single person that wouldn't like a longer lasting battery. Nor have I ever heard any of them with either Androids or iPhones complain that their phone wasn't thin and light enough.

Yet Apple's so obsessed with their version of "style" they are deaf dumb and blind to customer desires. Or if not, they give no indication of it.

 

[Clairvoyant129]

13" MacBook Pro uses Broadwell CPUs with PCIe SSDs, how is that 3 year old hardware? It's true that the 15" version uses Haswell quad cores but only because Intel wasn't ready with Broadwell or Skylale i7s with Iris Pros. By early next year, we should see Skylake MacBooks. You also can't expect Apple to shove a 980M or M395X class GPUs into its MacBooks, those GPUs are intended for gaming laptops which are much thicker and heavier.

 

[leman]

I get a very distinct feeling they are inching towards full convergence of iOS and OS X, despite their comments that they're simply sharing features of iOS customers are fond of.

Yeah, folks have been claiming that for years and the convergence is still not coming

It's the dumbing down of OS X by errors of omission

Omission of what? Somehow no features are being omitted from the OS X I am using. Yeah, some stuff is being phased out, big deal.

The focus on adding fluffy consumer facing features like notifications combined with failing to add anything to truly benefit computer users is a clear indication that Apple is so busy profit taking they've chosen to ignore computer centric Apple users.

Ermm... first of all, a unified notification API is great. Don't like it, don't use them, but please don't speak for all the users who find them very useful. Second, there are tons of improvements for computer users over the last years. In El Capitan, Apple Mail is able to automatically import the email signing certificate of my organisation, even though I am using their smtp server via a google proxy and Apple doesn't even have that server's address. I got a Notes app that is finally started being useful, I can script the OS via JavaScript, the filesystem natively supports tags and all bunch of diagnostics information about the network connection is only one click away. The terminal app has been updated with useful features and I got OS-wide standard extension mechanism. Furthermore, I finally got a state of the art graphical and compute API, which despite its limitations, is a much better and easier to use alternative to morally obsolete OpenGL. And thats only the most obvious things that come to my mind. If this is what you call ignoring computer centric users, I beg Apple to keep ignoring us again.

iPhones have always been quite thin. Smartphones are known as power hungry. Apple could easily add a bit of thickness, include a larger battery and grab well earned headlines as the company with long lasting smartphones. A huge advantage that anyone with a smartphone would appreciate. The buzz that would generate would be terrific. A universal complaint solved by Apple. Man or Woman, I don't know a single person that wouldn't like a longer lasting battery.

Genius. Yet for some reason nobody in the smartphone business does that. Probably because real engineers are actually smart people who understand that the most important thing for a phone is to be able to last at least one day (btw, my iPhone 5s lasts around 2 days on one charge). Prolonging the battery life by few hours does not matter for practical use, because you are still limited by the time when you can charge your phone, which is overnight. I am sure that making a phone that is 4x heavier and thicker but can last an entire week on one charge will generate some buzz. Like how no-one can fit it into their pocket.

Yet Apple's so obsessed with their version of "style" they are deaf dumb and blind to customer desires. Or if not, they give no indication of it.

I am sure that Apple has much more information about the customer desires (and the technological progress) than you. I know that you probably feel that some reflection about the world over a couple of beers make you an expert, but let me assure you, there are people out there who are true experts. And I am pretty confident that they do a better job than you would ever do.

P.S. Your post reminds me of that episode of Simpsons where Homer designs a car for his brother's company. I think it was called "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?". Look it up, might recognise a lot in it.

 

[maxsix]

Yeah, folks have been claiming that for years and the convergence is still not coming



Omission of what? Somehow no features are being omitted from the OS X I am using. Yeah, some stuff is being phased out, big deal.



Ermm... first of all, a unified notification API is great. Don't like it, don't use them, but please don't speak for all the users who find them very useful. Second, there are tons of improvements for computer users over the last years. In El Capitan, Apple Mail is able to automatically import the email signing certificate of my organisation, even though I am using their smtp server via a google proxy and Apple doesn't even have that server's address. I got a Notes app that is finally started being useful, I can script the OS via JavaScript, the filesystem natively supports tags and all bunch of diagnostics information about the network connection is only one click away. The terminal app has been updated with useful features and I got OS-wide standard extension mechanism. Furthermore, I finally got a state of the art graphical and compute API, which despite its limitations, is a much better and easier to use alternative to morally obsolete OpenGL. And thats only the most obvious things that come to my mind. If this is what you call ignoring computer centric users, I beg Apple to keep ignoring us again.



Genius. Yet for some reason nobody in the smartphone business does that. Probably because real engineers are actually smart people who understand that the most important thing for a phone is to be able to last at least one day (btw, my iPhone 5s lasts around 2 days on one charge). Prolonging the battery life by few hours does not matter for practical use, because you are still limited by the time when you can charge your phone, which is overnight. I am sure that making a phone that is 4x heavier and thicker but can last an entire week on one charge will generate some buzz. Like how no-one can fit it into their pocket.



I am sure that Apple has much more information about the customer desires (and the technological progress) than you. I know that you probably feel that some reflection about the world over a couple of beers make you an expert, but let me assure you, there are people out there who are true experts. And I am pretty confident that they do a better job than you would ever do.

P.S. Your post reminds me of that episode of Simpsons where Homer designs a car for his brother's company. I think it was called "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?". Look it up, might recognise a lot in it.

Yeah, folks have been claiming that for years and the convergence is still not coming



Omission of what? Somehow no features are being omitted from the OS X I am using. Yeah, some stuff is being phased out, big deal.



Ermm... first of all, a unified notification API is great. Don't like it, don't use them, but please don't speak for all the users who find them very useful. Second, there are tons of improvements for computer users over the last years. In El Capitan, Apple Mail is able to automatically import the email signing certificate of my organisation, even though I am using their smtp server via a google proxy and Apple doesn't even have that server's address. I got a Notes app that is finally started being useful, I can script the OS via JavaScript, the filesystem natively supports tags and all bunch of diagnostics information about the network connection is only one click away. The terminal app has been updated with useful features and I got OS-wide standard extension mechanism. Furthermore, I finally got a state of the art graphical and compute API, which despite its limitations, is a much better and easier to use alternative to morally obsolete OpenGL. And thats only the most obvious things that come to my mind. If this is what you call ignoring computer centric users, I beg Apple to keep ignoring us again.



Genius. Yet for some reason nobody in the smartphone business does that. Probably because real engineers are actually smart people who understand that the most important thing for a phone is to be able to last at least one day (btw, my iPhone 5s lasts around 2 days on one charge). Prolonging the battery life by few hours does not matter for practical use, because you are still limited by the time when you can charge your phone, which is overnight. I am sure that making a phone that is 4x heavier and thicker but can last an entire week on one charge will generate some buzz. Like how no-one can fit it into their pocket.



I am sure that Apple has much more information about the customer desires (and the technological progress) than you. I know that you probably feel that some reflection about the world over a couple of beers make you an expert, but let me assure you, there are people out there who are true experts. And I am pretty confident that they do a better job than you would ever do.

P.S. Your post reminds me of that episode of Simpsons where Homer designs a car for his brother's company. I think it was called "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?". Look it up, might recognise a lot in it.

I stopped reading after the first few sentences when it became apparent you do not know the meaning of the word "Omission".

Furthermore at a glance, the sheer length and effort that you put into the post indicates you have a burning desire to initiate a personal attack, or start a fight or whatever your agenda is.

I'll leave you to stew in your own juices.

 

[leman]

I stopped reading after the first few sentences when it became apparent you do not know the meaning of the word "Omission".

English is not my native language. Be so kind to enlighten me

Furthermore at a glance, the sheer length and effort that you put into the post indicates you have a burning desire to initiate a personal attack, or start a fight or whatever your agenda is.

I thought you stopped reading? No personal attack intended, what I attacked was your post which I consider to be nonsensical. Its a shame that you can't find anything substantial to answer to my examples of improvements in OS X and my critique of your 'bigger battery' idea. But hey, if we don't say anything, we can't lose face, isn't it?

BTW, if I have a burning desire that it is to confront a sadly popular attitude of oversimplification, premature generalisation and mixing up of reality and supposition, of which your post is a prime example.

 

[Max(IT)]

Yes indeed sadly it is getting worse.

I get a very distinct feeling they are inching towards full convergence of iOS and OS X, despite their comments that they're simply sharing features of iOS customers are fond of. While that seems to be true, it's the dumbing down of OS X by errors of omission that bothers me. The focus on adding fluffy consumer facing features like notifications combined with failing to add anything to truly benefit computer users is a clear indication that Apple is so busy profit taking they've chosen to ignore computer centric Apple users.

I have such a long history with Apple it's rather natural to want that to continue. But my frustration with the company culture, the way they do things, and often more importantly... what they do _not_ do, continues to intensify. Driven by potential I can always see a positive side, and when they don't do anything to take advantage of a significant opportunity they've created, its just disgusting.

Here's an example.
iPhones have always been quite thin. Smartphones are known as power hungry. Apple could easily add a bit of thickness, include a larger battery and grab well earned headlines as the company with long lasting smartphones. A huge advantage that anyone with a smartphone would appreciate. The buzz that would generate would be terrific.

A universal complaint solved by Apple. Man or Woman, I don't know a single person that wouldn't like a longer lasting battery. Nor have I ever heard any of them with either Androids or iPhones complain that their phone wasn't thin and light enough.

Yet Apple's so obsessed with their version of "style" they are deaf dumb and blind to customer desires. Or if not, they give no indication of it.

sure, Apple is doomed .... since 1990.
Move on ...
I'm so sick about "experts" on the forum pretending to be wiser or better than some of the most talented engineers working for Apple ...

Apple's choices are Apple's choices. Either you like it or you choose something else.
And, in case you never heard, I LIKE a thin and light iPhone.

13" MacBook Pro uses Broadwell CPUs with PCIe SSDs, how is that 3 year old hardware? It's true that the 15" version uses Haswell quad cores but only because Intel wasn't ready with Broadwell or Skylale i7s with Iris Pros. By early next year, we should see Skylake MacBooks. You also can't expect Apple to shove a 980M or M395X class GPUs into its MacBooks, those GPUs are intended for gaming laptops which are much thicker and heavier.

Correct.
And Apple doesn't care about gaming ....

Yeah, folks have been claiming that for years and the convergence is still not coming



Omission of what? Somehow no features are being omitted from the OS X I am using. Yeah, some stuff is being phased out, big deal.



Ermm... first of all, a unified notification API is great. Don't like it, don't use them, but please don't speak for all the users who find them very useful. Second, there are tons of improvements for computer users over the last years. In El Capitan, Apple Mail is able to automatically import the email signing certificate of my organisation, even though I am using their smtp server via a google proxy and Apple doesn't even have that server's address. I got a Notes app that is finally started being useful, I can script the OS via JavaScript, the filesystem natively supports tags and all bunch of diagnostics information about the network connection is only one click away. The terminal app has been updated with useful features and I got OS-wide standard extension mechanism. Furthermore, I finally got a state of the art graphical and compute API, which despite its limitations, is a much better and easier to use alternative to morally obsolete OpenGL. And thats only the most obvious things that come to my mind. If this is what you call ignoring computer centric users, I beg Apple to keep ignoring us again.



Genius. Yet for some reason nobody in the smartphone business does that. Probably because real engineers are actually smart people who understand that the most important thing for a phone is to be able to last at least one day (btw, my iPhone 5s lasts around 2 days on one charge). Prolonging the battery life by few hours does not matter for practical use, because you are still limited by the time when you can charge your phone, which is overnight. I am sure that making a phone that is 4x heavier and thicker but can last an entire week on one charge will generate some buzz. Like how no-one can fit it into their pocket.



I am sure that Apple has much more information about the customer desires (and the technological progress) than you. I know that you probably feel that some reflection about the world over a couple of beers make you an expert, but let me assure you, there are people out there who are true experts. And I am pretty confident that they do a better job than you would ever do.

P.S. Your post reminds me of that episode of Simpsons where Homer designs a car for his brother's company. I think it was called "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?". Look it up, might recognise a lot in it.

Very well written.
But don't you know ? Apple should hire half the forum's members : there are any kind of experts here.

 

[leman]

And Apple doesn't care about gaming ....

I wouldn't say that. Apple has spent considerable effort on developing tools and libraries for building games in the last two years. They are certainly not targeting the AAA games, but I think they are interesting in making OS X an attractive platform for more casual and popular gaming. Even the integrated cards currently used in the Apple notebooks are powerful enough to run modern cooperative online games and even some MMOs.

 

[simonsi]

Yet Apple's so obsessed with their version of "style" they are deaf dumb and blind to customer desires. Or if not, they give no indication of it.

So all Apple's customer's hate Apple's styling? Yet they continue to spend record-breaking revenues on Apple products? Come on, you can see that argument doesn't stack up. Follow that logic through and you can criticise every consumer manufacturer for not appealing to every human on the planet? With every product?

All products are designed to appeal to a target market, by definition that means they won't necessarily appeal to consumers outside their target market. Companies that try to appeal to all of mankind tend to fail as companies.

Just sounds like you are outside Apple's target market.

 

[shoehornhands]

I don't understand how you arrived at this conclusion. Apple usually uses appropriate top-tier consumer CPUs in its products. As I have written above, top-tier Skylake iGPUs do not seem to be available yet, so obviously Apple can't use them.

It's Broadwell that Apple is behind on, not Skylake. Apple refreshed the MacBook Pro lineup back in May with the exact same Haswell processors (and thus, integrated graphics) that were used in the previous generation. A couple weeks after the refresh, Intel released the mobile Broadwell chips (the i7-5750HQ, i7-5850HQ and i7-5890HQ) which include Iris Pro 6200 integrated graphics (which is a pretty significant step up from the Iris Pro 5200 used in the current 15" MacBook Pro).

Not only are the Broadwell chips a pretty nice jump up from Haswell, but they're also a drop-in replacement to Haswell, so Apple could have simply given the 15" MacBook Pro a quiet speed bump when they were released (like pretty much every other manufacturer does).

Point being, the reason Apple is still using Haswell is quite simply, because they can. Until they actually start to lose market share, they'll continue to charge a premium / maximize profit everywhere they can. Heck, they could have reverted back to Ivy Bridge and the people in the market for a 15" MacBook Pro wouldn't have given it a second thought before purchasing one.

 

[leman]

Point being, the reason Apple is still using Haswell is quite simply, because they can. Until they actually start to lose market share, they'll continue to charge a premium / maximize profit everywhere they can.

I agree, and it is certainly annoying. But that is just how Apple operates, they have their refresh timeline (which is most likely designed with cost optimisation in mind) and they generally don't stray from it. I too with they were more flexible in that regards.

P.S. A late edit, because I had an additional thought to this. There might be some logic to this stance of Apple (mind, I am not trying to defend them here, just thinking about possible reasons for this strategy beyond cost savings). Silent updates, especially shortly after normal updates, tend to antagonise users. Right now we know that Apple generally refreshes the Mac line two times per year, so we can plan ahead a bit. But imagine Apple quietly introducing Broadwell two month after the new MBP would be released. There would be a massive outcry from people who have purchased the refresh. I can already picture the forum headlines

 

[Samuelsan2001]

How come Dell, HP, Acer and all other PC laptop manufacturers are selling theirs with all these new hardware? Apple is supposed to be the leader in new hardware technology or not?

The new hardware you are quoting is the lesser skylake chips the best ones with the best graphics are yet to be released (and are not scheduled until early next year). When they are apple will use them and update their hardware until then you can go with what the PC makers have used or wait until the apple laptops catch up and spank them all over the place.

 

[maflynn]

All products are designed to appeal to a target market, by definition that means they won't necessarily appeal to consumers outside their target market. Companies that try to appeal to all of mankind tend to fail as companies.

My concern and argument is that Apple's altering their designs that have a negative effect on their target audience. Perhaps that affect is tiny at the moment but given the level of complaining people did about the Mac Pro when it was updated, the Mac Mini, when it was updated and the iMac. I think its showing a trend that is disconcerting.

Yes, Apple is enjoying great sales and profits, they also make great products, yet, I see an erosion of features which makes it harder and harder for me to pony up the money. Will I buy a Mac again, yeah, but its getting harder to justify.

At this point, the iMac, MBPs, MBs and to a lesser extent the Mini are all sealed and imo falling into the planned obsolescence category, i.e., cannot be upgraded or repaired but must be replaced

 

[Samuelsan2001]

My concern and argument is that Apple's altering their designs that have a negative effect on their target audience. Perhaps that affect is tiny at the moment but given the level of complaining people did about the Mac Pro when it was updated, the Mac Mini, when it was updated and the iMac. I think its showing a trend that is disconcerting.

Yes, Apple is enjoying great sales and profits, they also make great products, yet, I see an erosion of features which makes it harder and harder for me to pony up the money. Will I buy a Mac again, yeah, but its getting harder to justify.

At this point, the iMac, MBPs, MBs and to a lesser extent the Mini are all sealed and imo falling into the planned obsolescence category, i.e., cannot be upgraded or repaired but must be replaced

That 'level of complaining' is small, it's a few people on tech forums not teh general public that apple aims it's products at. The vast majority of people who buy a computer use it until it dies and buy another one. Apple sell 20 million macs a year they are the only computer supplier who's sales are up year over year and have been for the last 3 years, you may not like apples direction but many many consumers clearly do.

 

[maflynn]

you may not like apples direction but many many consumers clearly do.

You are correct at the moment people are flocking to apple and a single customer is but a drop in the ocean, yet I think its a trend that may very well continue if Apple is not careful. What I mean by that, is people will quickly second guess the spending of 2,000 dollars for a computer that may not last as long as they expect. I'm not saying that will happen or that's the case but I think Apple is being penny wise and pound foolish and it may come back to haunt them.

Edit, let me just add to this at the risk of beating a dead horse. I know a few people who opted to buy a PC or build one and their reasoning was my point exactly. Why spend 2,000 (or there abouts) on a computer that they'll only have for a few years. These folks are not your typical MacRumors type member but just non-technical folks who decided to spend less money.

 

[Max(IT)]

I wouldn't say that. Apple has spent considerable effort on developing tools and libraries for building games in the last two years. They are certainly not targeting the AAA games, but I think they are interesting in making OS X an attractive platform for more casual and popular gaming. Even the integrated cards currently used in the Apple notebooks are powerful enough to run modern cooperative online games and even some MMOs.

well, you are right to some extent, but on the hardware side Apple isn't focused on gaming.
They don't sell any real "desktop" computer: the Mini is a compact solution, with notebook components, and even the iMac isn't a desktop but an all-in-one computer traditionally using "notebook-like" components to control heat (and form factor).
Surely you can play online multiplayer games on almost every Mac, even with iGPUs (Apple use good iGPUs in their Macs), but they don't sell any real gaming machine.

 

[leman]

What I mean by that, is people will quickly second guess the spending of 2,000 dollars for a computer that may not last as long as they expect.

I do not believe that there is any significant difference between the longevity of Macs now and the longevity of Macs of earlier. If anything, Macs now offer better bang for buck then they did few years ago. Now, for the $2000 you get a state of an art display, a battery that can easily last 5 years, a super-fast array of external connectors and one of the fastest SSDs on consumer market. My first MacBook Pro was the same price, but it didn't really spot anything state of the art, except build quality.