Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Why no Face ID or promotion in the new iMac? Not good enough apple
- Thread starter LFC2020
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
So just because you don't want Face ID, that should be the same case for the millions who do want it.
Firstly, I have no idea how many people want it, and I doubt anyone else does, but if you've got a scientific study with actual numbers, I'd be happy to have a look. Secondly, if you read what I said, you would find that it was 'Personally, I couldn't care less'. I think what that means is 'personally'.
I don't speak for anyone else's preferences or needs when I post here, because I can't read minds.
Sold my late 2015 27” iMac 2TB FD with 24gb ram, and just using the new 12.9” now, when i had both the iMac was very noticable scrolling and was slower compared.
FID is so much better for signing in with passwords.
I don’t want TID on anything. Old outdated tech. And once you have pro motion especially on a bigger screen i couldn’t go back.
Because a iMac is a 5 year plus ownership i won’t be buying another one without FID and pro motion. $3KAUD plus without those 2 no thanks.
FID is so much better for signing in with passwords.
I don’t want TID on anything. Old outdated tech. And once you have pro motion especially on a bigger screen i couldn’t go back.
Because a iMac is a 5 year plus ownership i won’t be buying another one without FID and pro motion. $3KAUD plus without those 2 no thanks.
Last edited:
I think its pretty clear why.
Yes, id love it to be there and i find it great on the iPhone and iPad pro...
however using the iPad pro does demonstrate something very clearly.... the FaceID system has a distance limit for it to work effectively. In the iPad its just about OK and occasionally it will say 'face too far away'....
Of course the iMac is always going to be quite far from your face - further than the iPad would be (you aren't going to have a 24 inch or higher screen close enough)
So unless and until they can increase the range of the FaceID sensors... you wont get it in the Mac.
Imagine how irrupted everyone would be when unlocking their mac and constantly presented with 'face too far away' errors.
I really wonder how much better life would be with Face ID. If the Mac did have Face ID, wouldn't you still have to interact with it to get it to do anything? On the iPhone, Face ID works well combined with raise-to-wake. But then you still need to interact with the device to unlock it.
On the Mac, would it just always be looking for your face when it's asleep? How would you raise-to-wake the Mac? Also, how would logging in be improved? There's two ways I can see this working: 1) the Mac is always looking for your face, so when you sit down the screen lights up and then you press a button to log in, or 2) you have to wake up the screen, it sees your face, then logs you in. Either way, you will need to interact with the device to log in, which doesn't seem much different from pressing the Touch ID button. I guess it would be better because you can press any button, but really, your hands are always near the keyboard anyway, so it's hard to see how much better it would make things.
Or if you want to checkout with Apple Pay. The checkout screen appears, it will validate your face, then you press the submit button. Or you can just press the Touch ID button when the checkout screen appears. Same way on the phone. Face ID requires an extra interaction because it won't submit the order after validating your face, because it's too easy to be accidental.
I think Touch ID is better on the phone, and is even better on Macs, than Face ID because Face ID can't automatically do anything without another interaction, because you're always in front of the computer. Touch ID is a more deliberate action, so it can just be one input. I'm hoping if they do add Face ID, they don't remove Touch ID. It will be interesting to see how things would work with both methods on the same device.
On the Mac, would it just always be looking for your face when it's asleep? How would you raise-to-wake the Mac? Also, how would logging in be improved? There's two ways I can see this working: 1) the Mac is always looking for your face, so when you sit down the screen lights up and then you press a button to log in, or 2) you have to wake up the screen, it sees your face, then logs you in. Either way, you will need to interact with the device to log in, which doesn't seem much different from pressing the Touch ID button. I guess it would be better because you can press any button, but really, your hands are always near the keyboard anyway, so it's hard to see how much better it would make things.
Or if you want to checkout with Apple Pay. The checkout screen appears, it will validate your face, then you press the submit button. Or you can just press the Touch ID button when the checkout screen appears. Same way on the phone. Face ID requires an extra interaction because it won't submit the order after validating your face, because it's too easy to be accidental.
I think Touch ID is better on the phone, and is even better on Macs, than Face ID because Face ID can't automatically do anything without another interaction, because you're always in front of the computer. Touch ID is a more deliberate action, so it can just be one input. I'm hoping if they do add Face ID, they don't remove Touch ID. It will be interesting to see how things would work with both methods on the same device.
Last edited:
A great post!
My problem with almost any form of FaceID on a Mac that doesn't involve a particular user action to invoke it, is privacy.
Well, two other issues also: Privacy and privacy.
The only time a camera (or microphone) should ever be on is when the user tells the system/device to turn it on, and even then, an explicit instruction, not something that could be merely interpreted as such.
I don't think Apple has any way to introduce this, without a step that involves an activation key, otherwise they would be buried under a ton of lawsuits, particularly in Europe where privacy laws are more stringent anyway, filed by users who have had their systems activate and send live images in circumstances the user did not want.
And if the user has to press a key to activate it, that key also has to be protected from accidental activation, which means not simply a 'wake up' button that could be touched or pressed or otherwise engaged unintentionally.
The result would be clunky and worse as an experience than TouchID, which is a key on the keyboard of the iMac certainly, but can only be activated by a known-good fingerprint rather than anything else.
I think Apple should make TouchID standard on every Mac and keyboard, not just above-base models, and it should be made much more robust so that it doesn't require re-enrollment of fingerprints for some users making it more reliable. I must admit that I used to have a lot of issues with it when it was first introduced, though it has seemed very much better on the MacBooks I've used for the last few years.
I would be surprised if Apple had not been looking at FaceID on Macs for a while, and that the reason we haven't seen it, is because there is no way to actually do it that makes functional sense and isn't a worse solution than it not being there. But I do know that as and when they do find a way to solve it and FaceID comes to the Mac, the first thing I'll be doing is disabling it. Permanently.
I believe we have a winner here! Too many variable distances on desks for iMacs makes Face ID harder to implement reliably unless they can significantly boost the range of the sensor.
Here's the problem, though: iMacs don't have built-in keyboards. One of the advantages of iMac is that you can choose your own keyboard to meet your personal preferences and requirements (including things like alternate layouts, DVORAK, international... ergonomic keyboards, keyboards with custom layouts/labels for particular applications, rugged/waterproof keyboards... accessibility aids... wired keyboards if you have bluetooth interference issues...)
The new TouchID implementation means that, if you want Touch ID, you can have any keyboard you want provided it's one of the two models of new "Magic Keyboards with Touch ID" currently sold by Apple.
So, yes, you need a second interaction to trigger Face ID, but that doesn't have to be a secure interaction - just hitting the famous "any" key will do.... and often, if an action needs to confirm your ID, needing more than one confirmatory action is probably a good idea: as long as it is more convenient than typing in a password or PIN.
Thing is with FaceID and TouchID is that the best answer is both so users can choose the most suitable one for them.
Which also gives you the ultimate choice of choosing to require face and touch for some actions.
...meanwhile, the highly security conscious (...and the unlucky ones who have to wear a mask and gloves... which is probably pretty common) can and, and probably will, just memorise their 24 character password and eschew both TouchID and FaceID...
Well, not exactly. The 'any key' solution means that a FaceID camera will begin capturing images as soon as 'any key' is touched. This is fine if you mean it, but is anything but if you don't. Legally, I doubt this would fly at all in many jurisdictions around the world due to privacy concerns, because it could, and almost certainly would, result in the capture on video of images the user, or anyone else within range of the camera may have good reason not to wish being captured. Even if it is acceptable in the laws of some places, the outcry it could be capable of causing from those who were 'caught on camera' by accident would be capable of seriously damaging Apple's reputation for user privacy.
Look at the outrage caused when Amazon Echo devices capture audio inadvertently, and that's just audio.
As the user of a mechanical keyboard, which I happily put in place instead of my Magic Keyboard with Touch ID (because these Magic keyboards are horrible to use for any length of time, not for any other reason) I am quite happy to enter a password when I need to, or use my Apple Watch to unlock the computer and help complete transactions. That's secure, unless someone hacks off my arm to get access to it... and I think I'd have other things to worry about for a moment or two than that my iMac got unlocked.
First, the laws are usually about something like "personally identifiable data" and don't care whether the data is an image, a fingerprint or your name. They're also unlikely to give a wet slap unless that information is stored or sent somewhere else for processing (which FaceID isn't). Last I looked, the only information stored - locally - was for the registered users of the machine - and both FaceID and TouchID were something you had to choose to enable.
By your theory, you'd need to tick a consent box before trying to log in to a computer with username (personally identifiable information) and password (sensitive personal information), and the same principle would certainly apply to stealing information about your fingerprint just because you tried to turn on an iPhone you picked up (unless I've missed the disclaimer that would need to be engraved in large friendly letters on the front of every iPhone...) - and, of course all cameras would be illegal, just in case you accidentally caught someone in the background of the photo... (don't give people ideas!)
Also bear in mind that PCs have been using the equivalent of FaceID - "Windows Hello" - for years now...
Of course, in some environments (Dr Strangelove's family military lab & sanctuary for abuse victims) it might matter but in those cases both touch ID and face ID - along with having a webcam at all - are unlikely to be verboten.
Amazon Echo was silently recording conversations and transmitting them to Amazon HQ for processing, where humans were able to listen to them. Rather different.
Please don't conflate a genuine issue with a silly argument. They're not the same.
Nice, though that article is from July 2020.
Another possibility could be they are saving it for the M2 and have been testing the feature internally with upcoming M2 Macs. Apple got the M1 machines out the door with some compromises and will want to have some significant improvements in the M2 Macs to encourage some who got the M1 to upgrade.
If the M2 brings Face ID, more ports, more RAM and all round better performance I think it'll solve most of the complaints with the M1 and be better than the last Intel Macs in almost every way (except for those needing to use Bootcamp or run legacy 32-bit Mac apps).
Touch ID has never worked for me on the iPhone. Still doesn't work for me on the M1 Air. It would remember me for a few days at most and then forget me. Face ID has been perfect. (I understand that some people have the reverse experience, so Touch ID works for them, and Face ID doesn't.)
My theory is they think there's enough people putting stickers over their camera such that too many people would be irritated about Face ID conflicting with their want for extra privacy. It's a camera that's always pointing in your room unlike an iPhone or iPad that goes into a pocket or case respectively when not in use. Having Face ID everywhere isn't important for them at the moment because they're still very committed to keeping Touch ID around for the foreseeable future (including bringing it back on iPhone per the rumors).
Good point. Plus if they expect people to dock their M1 MacBooks into the upcoming Apple cinema display successor then they'll probably want you to buy the Magic Keyboard with Touch ID in case you have your laptop closed or off to the side. Putting Face ID in the cinema displays sounds more expensive than putting Touch ID into a keyboard.
Also Face ID requires a physical button press to confirm you want to authenticate the face scan. On Mac you'll have to press a key switch so why not put Touch ID in there if a user has to physically touch the keyboard anyway.
EDIT, my point exactly:
Agree, that’s why you have both, Touch ID in the keyboard and Face ID in the upper bezel, win win for everybody. 😃💃🕺