I thought that the thunderbolt Floppy drive would have flagged my post as sarcastic
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Why no optical drive in the new Mac Mini?
- Thread starter FlyingPie
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I thought that the thunderbolt Floppy drive would have flagged my post as sarcastic
I don't think the optical drive has gone the way of the floppy drive at all. Apple wants you to download music, film and tv from them. Also they couldn't be bothered designing a mini that could incorporate an OD as well as a dedicated graphics chip which would have been possible if they had increased the physical dimensions of the product. Rather than taking the lead I think its more a case of our way. Sure you can add an external and that's what I imagine most mini owners will do. But taking the lead and innovating I don't think so.
If rumors are true you can expect Apple to remove the ODD from all it's products. I imagine everything but the mac pro. The Mac Book Air is one of it;s most popular lines and with both the minis and the Airs sans ODD you can expect the iMacs and MBPs to soon follow.
I've lost data twice in my life; the experience is disgusting bad. Now I carry a 1TB drive with me at all times, leave one backup in the office, one at home, and one in the safe - all with the same info, just to guarantee I will never lose data again. For that reason alone I will never buy a major TV series of off iTunes to store in my laptop. In my pessimistic view it's just a question of time until all is gone. I prefer physical media.
I've been wanting a Mac with blu-ray for two years now, so that I could burn all my data into as few blu ray disks as possible every few months. Not only does apple not adopt blu-ray, they go all the way by removing the optical disk.
clearly iTunes and icloud are the future. It's just a distant future. Not only does our Infrastructure suck, there are no present investments to make it better. It currently takes me 25 min to download a "high def" movie from itunes. And close to 2 days to back up all my data to a cloud service. And now there are talks of service providers going the ATT/Verizon way and charging people per GB monthly. That would definitely nail the coffin on this subject of physical media being done with.
I second that, even though I am in the part of the user base who still uses an optical drive. I tend to burn bootable ISO's once in a while but I suppose I can try to replicate them on USB thumb drives. Not huge deal but sort of is.
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I'm hoping for a Thunderbolt keyboard and mouse for lighting quick emails.
cfedu said:
I'm hoping for a Thunderbolt keyboard and mouse for lighting quick emails.
damn thats innvovative!!! i was hoping for a macbook wheel!
heres the one you can view if you dont have a youtube account
Well, thats you. Certainly not everyone feels this way. What if I want to give a copy of some home videos to family members? How am I supposed to do that? Upload to Youtube? No thanks. DVDs and blu-ray discs are the best way to do this. This way family can watch home videos and slideshows on their high definition TV (you know, home videos these days ARE high def, and digital photography has been well above HD resolutions for a long long long time now)
You can thank Apple for activating the "RipLock" features of their optical drives. It forces them to read DVD video discs at the same speed they would read the disc watching a movie.
However, whats wrong with blu-ray pricing? Blu-ray prices these days are no more expensive than DVDs. More often than not, the 1080p blu-ray disc with lossless audio is CHEAPER to own than the iTunes "HD" download that is half the resolution, 1/10th the bit-rate, and lower audio quality than DVD.
Actually, around here, blu-ray section is mixed in with DVD so there is no segregation. Same amount of blu-ray discs as DVDs for movies where a blu-ray copy is available.
Renting a blu-ray disc from Red Box is significantly cheaper than the 720p rental from iTunes as well.
Whoa, what are you on? Sounds like something pretty good!
If you remember right, DVD didn't overtake VHS with a WHOLE 51% market share versus 49% for VHS until the end of 2003. A full 6 years after the format launched. And after that it was the studios that chose to kill VHS. Not because it wasn't still selling, it was. But because they wanted to move to DVD completely to cut costs and HD DVD and blu-ray disc were only a year or so away from launching by the time studios killed off VHS support.
Anyway, Apple should have left the optical drive in. It still has way too many uses to ignore. Blu-ray disc offers unmatched video and audio quality. Even with a fast internet connection, it's still faster to go to the video store or Red Box, and rent the disc than it is to get it from iTunes. It's also cheaper to rent discs than downloads as well. DVD-R and BD-RE offer the cheapest per gigabyte storage out there and are really the only cheap way to get someone several gigabytes of data without having to worry about taking a loss on the storage device you gave to them. Burn a DVD for someone and never got the disc back? No problem, its only a few cents. Give someone a 4GB flash drive? Thats $10 (For a semi-good one) down the drain. And as I've said, theres no way you're going to find an online movie service that offers anywhere near the quality of blu-ray disc for video. On Demand services offered by paid TV service companies don't come close to blu-ray, despite offering "1080p" (which is compressed nearly as much as Apple's iTunes movies) and they cost more than renting blu-ray. And let's not forget that more than half of all internet connections in the US are capped now. On top of the fact that only a small handful of companies offer enough bandwidth to stream blu-ray quality video, and of those companies, all but ONE has bandwidth caps.
Optical drives in a computer have had their day.
Consumers rarely ask for Blu-ray support in a Mac because many likely feel like it's illogical. Why would they watch a 1080p movie on a 27" display at best for the Mac line?
Blu-ray is good when you have that 42" or larger HDTV there to playback but it's really unnecessary in a computer.
As for backup there are far faster technologies like the good ole HDD drive that can backup faster and easier.
Apple is smart to get rid of optical drives. They are slow and clunky..eat up battery power and space in notebooks and cause a fair share of tech support issues with scratched or stuck discs.
Software delivered as boxed product on DVD is often multiple revision out of date.
The internet has changed the game of software distribution and even backup (crashplan, carbonite etc). Those that still need DVD support can simply pay $80 for the drive. I see no reason to keep buying outdated technology myself.
Consumers rarely ask for Blu-ray support in a Mac because many likely feel like it's illogical. Why would they watch a 1080p movie on a 27" display at best for the Mac line?
Blu-ray is good when you have that 42" or larger HDTV there to playback but it's really unnecessary in a computer.
As for backup there are far faster technologies like the good ole HDD drive that can backup faster and easier.
Apple is smart to get rid of optical drives. They are slow and clunky..eat up battery power and space in notebooks and cause a fair share of tech support issues with scratched or stuck discs.
Software delivered as boxed product on DVD is often multiple revision out of date.
The internet has changed the game of software distribution and even backup (crashplan, carbonite etc). Those that still need DVD support can simply pay $80 for the drive. I see no reason to keep buying outdated technology myself.
Well like it or not Apple has the last say on this. Some expect they will remove the optical from the MacBook Pro and iMac. It would be a bold move.
I am fine using an external for the few times a year I actually use one. I guess I'd feel differently though if I used one all the time. Then again the Mac Mini wouldn't generally be lugged around, so having an external plugged in all the time wouldn't be that big of a deal. Maybe they will introduce a new Thunderbolt External Optical Drive. LOL I am laughing, but that is likely not far fetched at all.
I am fine using an external for the few times a year I actually use one. I guess I'd feel differently though if I used one all the time. Then again the Mac Mini wouldn't generally be lugged around, so having an external plugged in all the time wouldn't be that big of a deal. Maybe they will introduce a new Thunderbolt External Optical Drive. LOL I am laughing, but that is likely not far fetched at all.
Really, this isn't rocket science it simple you use a external optical drive just like I do and have done for years. This is a done deal, complaining about it isn't going to bring them back. This is the clear direction that Apple has taken and very rarely does JOB's reverse course on stuff like this.
We have HD quality family videos that we take right from our camera and put them right on our computer via the camera and then I can do with them whatever I want including editing and putting them in iTunes for us to view on our Apple TV.
This past year I made a old family video and photo DVD for immediate family members. Mostly pictures of us as kids and our deceased parents just for memory sake. Took me less time to do it with the much faster external drive.
I am sorry you are right (it is me) but I just don't see this as nearly as big a deal as you are making it out to be.
I think you need to do more research. Apple has yet to support Blue Ray as a format in any of their hardware. Blue Ray requires a special drive and won't work on a normal DVD drive. Also there was nothing wrong with the MacBook and it worked just fine for the Internet and other general uses. That said the MacBook has been discontinued and replaced with the entry level MacBook Air. Apple makes great computers, far better the various Windows based PC's out there and it's your loss if you don't switch over to Mac.
This is true. Then again, we have the last say on what we buy.
I've been using Macs for years, and I've always like them, they've always felt right for me. For the first time in years, I'm feeling like Apple's computers don't fit my needs. There was a time when new Apple kit came out and I was impressed with the new features it had. Now new Apple kit comes out and I'm left questioning some steps backwards.
- Integrated graphics on machines that used to have discrete chips. This isn't Apple's fault, but it's still a pain in the ass.
- iPod Nano 6G: while it's a decent player, it drops a lot of the things its predecessor did such as games, and even the ability to watch video. There's now no nice, light 8GB or 16GB player that does music and video. You need to spend more for the larger touch (which actually is a very nice piece of kit).
- New Mac mini: no optical drive, still with only 2GB RAM as standard, integrated graphics on the base model.
- MacBook discontinued. The MacBook Air 11" is the same price, but it is not a direct replacement. While it's ultraportable, it has no optical drive, has a smaller screen, fewer ports, only 2GB of RAM for $999, and is completely non-upgradable.
Now, I don't expect everyone to agree with me. And I'm sure Apple don't care whether or not I buy their machines - after all, they have over $70 billion in the bank. But I'm sure there are quite a few people that no longer have a machine that reasonably does what they want, that (legally) runs OS X.
Nope, not really. I just happened to reply before reading the second page of this thread and couldn't be bothered deleting or amending my post after. His original post hardly sounded sarcastic and if he had included a winking smilie then I wouldn't have wasted my time bothering to reply.
I bought a base Mac Mini to replace an older one. I never used the ODD in the old Mini since I stream everything from a NAS box and server. For watching movies on disc, a dedicated Blu-Ray players are imho a better option.
I am an IT manager and I don't even order our PC's with ODD's anymore. If someone needs to use a CD/DVD etc, they give it to me and access a share. If I need to wipe and reinstall, I boot off a USB and reinstall from an image on the network.
I am an IT manager and I don't even order our PC's with ODD's anymore. If someone needs to use a CD/DVD etc, they give it to me and access a share. If I need to wipe and reinstall, I boot off a USB and reinstall from an image on the network.
You are correct, but the bulk of Apple's income is from iPhone and iPad now. While computers are still important to them because they are sitting with 60 billion in the bank, clearly they have decided their vision is what everyone wants. The reality is that for some that model will no longer be attractive. You may quit buying Apple, but the alternative while you can get everything but the kitchen sink doesn't always make for a good user experience.
The only way Apple will reverse course is if sales drop like a rock and there is nothing to me that indicates that is happening on the Air or Mac Mini. If fact I would venture to say the Mac Mini has probably seen a boost in sales due to the latest processor configuration. Where this will be telling is if they do this on MacBook Pro and IMac and I think depending on the push back from consumers on these current new models we just may see that happen.
I know one thing I am NEVER going back to a Windows based PC, but that is me.
Nope, not really. I just happened to reply before reading the second page of this thread and couldn't be bothered deleting or amending my post after. His original post hardly sounded sarcastic and if he had included a winking smilie then I wouldn't have wasted my time bothering to reply.
The thunderbolt floppy drive did not give it away, the OP suggested an eSATA ODD. I don't think an ODD could saturate the USB bus. The OP said the MacBook was to slow, not knowing that is is discontinued. The op said he would not get a mini as it could not play bluray.
As for apple discontinuing the ODD, I don't care. I'd rather have a second drive and a lowerprice. Thinking more about it, it makes lots of sense.
The mini has 3 basic users, geeks for an entertainment centre, and entry level users, pro's.
With no blurry the mini sucks for an entertainment centre unless your ok with all digital, which I am. Paying 700$ to play a standard DVD is just silly!
An entry level user can just get an external drive if they really need one, buy used for 20$ for the 2 times you will need it. They still save money which is a good thing.
The pro users can work around having no ODD and learn that things are faster using a USB or external drive to install stuff. AGAIN if a pro user needs the ODD they can get an external ODD.
Why should I have to pay more for a computer with lesser capabilities because some people need to use
a DVD drive.
The majority have to suffer and pay more for the wants of a few.
If apple discontinues support for and external ODD, then you have a reason to complain
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OP, your problem is that you're adamant that people still want/need optical drives. That really isn't the case for the majority of consumers. If it was, Apple wouldn't eliminate it from their new Mini's.
Apple never has and never will embrace Blu-ray. End of story.
If you really want or need an optical drive, and want a Mac, get an iMac or a Mini plus a Superdrive. Otherwise you just need to accept the fact that optical drives will soon go way of the floppy.
Apple never has and never will embrace Blu-ray. End of story.
If you really want or need an optical drive, and want a Mac, get an iMac or a Mini plus a Superdrive. Otherwise you just need to accept the fact that optical drives will soon go way of the floppy.
Well, you seem to forget that not everyone has a large HDTV. Apple's largest audience these days would be college students. College students generally can't afford nor have the room for a decent home theater system. So their computer HAS to double as entertainment as well.
Not only that, but some people might just be in a living situation where their computer is their primary source of entertainment.
Theres also the fact that a 27" display is large enough to be used as both a computer display and entertainment display.
Of course, one could argue that Apple's prices should justify blu-ray disc across the entire line. My self built desktop PC that cost less than the last Mac mini to have a DVD drive can read blu-ray discs, and its still faster than every currently shipping Mac in one way or another.
Yes. But as I said, if I have some files I need to get to a family member or friend, am I going to give it to them on a HDD? "Here, take this $60 external HDD with 4GB of files on it" or "Here, take this $10 flash drive and keep it". No way. DVD-Rs still offer the most cost effective way to transport data to others without worrying about never getting the media back. In fact, optical media implies its theirs to keep. Which is generally the rule of thumb anyway if you're giving someone several gigabytes of data.
Stuck discs are only a problem on Apple computers because Apple uses the lowest quality optical drives they can find. Scratched discs? You have to deliberately mistreat DVDs to scratch them to the point where they're not readable by a modern optical drive. blu-ray discs have to practically be destroyed to be unreadable.
But if it requires a DVD, then, unless its an Apple product, you're generally not required to download the entire piece of software as a patch to update it. A small patch will suffice. And if the software requires a DVD because the application is just that big, then its faster to go to the store, buy it, come home, and install it than it is to just download it online.
Theres also the issue with websites not always giving you full speed. And bandwidth caps. People keep forgetting that the majority of US internet connections are capped now. The majority of connections around the world have even lower caps.
Backup over the internet? Might want to read about that guy that recently got kicked off Comcast for going over his bandwidth cap.
I still wouldn't rely on online distribution only for major software releases. Speeds vary too much depending on the server. Look at Steam as an example. I've bought a few games online from them. Some have downloaded at full 30Mbps for me. Others have downloaded at a fraction of that. Same with iTunes. Sometimes from iTunes I get my full speed, other times I get hardly any speed while other sites have no problem feeding me full speed at that moment.
Good for you. But you and others here seem to forget that you're in the overly vocal and very small minority.
Apple's website for the current Mac mini clearly indicates that their not including an optical drive isn't at all about "outdated" technology so much as it is locking people into their ecosystem. It even goes so far as to say you can just get all of your movies and music from iTunes.
And, again, optical disc drives still have far more positives than negatives. This isn't like the floppy drive, which was on its last leg at that time. DVDs offer higher quality video than even Apple's "HD" video, they offer the cheapest per gigabyte storage, they are the only way to transfer large amounts of data to others without having to worry about the media the data is on, etc. Blu-ray disc is completely unmatched when it comes to audio and video quality and, since the price of blu-ray blanks has dropped dramatically over the last year, they will soon be unmatched in terms of price per gigabyte.
Just because Jobs does something doesn't mean its right. The guy is a control freak of epic proportions. And as the Apple website says, this isn't at all about technology. It is entirely about locking people into their ecosystem.
And since we're talking about a desktop system here, why should I be dealing with external drives? It's not like Apple shrunk the case of the Mac mini for this. It's the exact same size!
Not everyone has or wants an Apple TV. Apple TV can't do a lot as far as streaming media goes either. And how are you going to get those videos to other family members? Burn to DVD, right?
And thank you for proving my point. And, again, this is a desktop we're talking about. Why do I need to deal with an external drive?
Last I checked, removing RipLock requires a few things. First, the firmware for your drive has to be available from Apple. Second, you have to extract that firmware, then boot into Windows and use software to modify that firmware. Then you have to flash the drive's firmware in Windows.
Considering the $2,000 iMac isn't as powerful and capable overall as the desktop PC I built a few months ago, I have to completely disagree. I also have to have Windows installed on my aluminum MacBook to get full use out of it.
That IS Apple's fault. Other computers with similar form factors have dedicated GPUs. So theres no reason Apple's systems can't other than Apple putting profit margins above customer satisfaction.
Theres also the issue of build quality with the iPod nano 6G. But, who actually watched video on iPod nano? I had a 3G iPod nano and I never watched video on it. Never.
Classic Apple putting margins above customer satisfaction.
You obviously have never had an HTPC.
I already have gone back to Windows. Best computer I've ever owned. Theres no way I'll go back to Apple exclusively. OS X Lion makes it obvious that Macs are eventually going to become extremely expensive iOS style products. And if the rumors are true about them removing optical drives from the MacBook "Pro" in the near future, they're going to severely cripple the functionality of their computers. Plus theres the fact that Apple systems are already severely overpriced and under powered for those prices.
The ironic thing about that statement is that the previous Mac mini was more capable than the current one because of its optical disc drive.
The majority? The majority are still buying Windows PCs with DVD and blu-ray disc drives. The overly vocal minority are the ones making it seem like optical media is dead when it is far from it.
And, again, look at Apple's website. This isn't about technology. They make it VERY clear on their website that this is entirely about them wanting to lock you into their iTunes ecosystem and nothing else.
Prove it. If optical drives are dead, why does optical media still account for almost the entire video market share? Why is blu-ray outpacing DVD when it comes to movie purchases? Why are the vast majority of video games sold on some form of optical disc?
Optical discs are far from dead. As I said, look at Apple's website. They make it very clear that this is about locking people into the iTunes and App Store ecosystem and nothing else.
I must say, I'm not seeing where this thread can possibly go. It just alternates between "Get with the times, Marge. DVDs are so 5 minutes ago" and "I still need an optical drive for X, Y, Z". Those two won't come together.
Not having an optical drive has really dented the Mini's place as a media centre, especially since it's the only Mac with a built-in HDMI port.
I don't see where you're coming from. The Mac mini I bought in 2005 cost $599 and had an optical drive, wifi and bluetooth. The Mac mini I bought in 2009 cost $599 and had an optical drive, wifi, bluetooth and supported two monitors.
You wouldn't say "I don't use wifi. Why should I have to pay more for a computer that has wifi" or "I never play games. Why should I pay more for a computer that has discrete graphics". How about "I don't like lettuce. When I go to Burger King, why does my Whopper without lettuce cost the same as someone else's Whopper with lettuce". Well, you could say those things, but then you'd be custom-building a Dell where the machine costs £300 and everything is an added extra. You wouldn't be buying a well-specced, good all-rounder like a Mac mini. Which, for the needs of the vast majority of people, should still have an optical drive.
Also, how does a machine with an optical drive offer "lesser capabilities". You can watch DVDs on it. You can burn CDs to play in the car. You can burn home movies / weddings to DVD. You can install Windows in Boot Camp without having to make a USB image. What about those Windows games where you need the disc in the drive to play them? Sounds like it offers a heck of a lot more.
Apple have always been about 'user experience'. Making people build their own Windows installation USB disk so they can install Windows in boot camp, or not having the ability to watch DVDs on their $600 computer, doesn't seem to fit with this experience.
As OTACORB said (and that was a good reply), their business is iPhones, iPod touches and iPads now. They don't care about Macs or iPods (the classic has been ignored - even for a 'classic', the nano was butchered to make the touch seem more fully featured). Over the last year, they really couldn't have made that clearer.
I have used Macs for a long time, and thankfully I'm not due to replace my desktop or laptop until 2013 (I replace my desktop every 4 years and my laptop every 3 years). I'll be keeping an eye out. Who knows - I may be ready to dump the optical drive by then. But I better make sure everything's been through Handbrake first.
tl;dr Why are we discussing this, well never agree. You might not use optical drives, we still do. End of story.
Not having an optical drive has really dented the Mini's place as a media centre, especially since it's the only Mac with a built-in HDMI port.
I don't see where you're coming from. The Mac mini I bought in 2005 cost $599 and had an optical drive, wifi and bluetooth. The Mac mini I bought in 2009 cost $599 and had an optical drive, wifi, bluetooth and supported two monitors.
You wouldn't say "I don't use wifi. Why should I have to pay more for a computer that has wifi" or "I never play games. Why should I pay more for a computer that has discrete graphics". How about "I don't like lettuce. When I go to Burger King, why does my Whopper without lettuce cost the same as someone else's Whopper with lettuce". Well, you could say those things, but then you'd be custom-building a Dell where the machine costs £300 and everything is an added extra. You wouldn't be buying a well-specced, good all-rounder like a Mac mini. Which, for the needs of the vast majority of people, should still have an optical drive.
Also, how does a machine with an optical drive offer "lesser capabilities". You can watch DVDs on it. You can burn CDs to play in the car. You can burn home movies / weddings to DVD. You can install Windows in Boot Camp without having to make a USB image. What about those Windows games where you need the disc in the drive to play them? Sounds like it offers a heck of a lot more.
Apple have always been about 'user experience'. Making people build their own Windows installation USB disk so they can install Windows in boot camp, or not having the ability to watch DVDs on their $600 computer, doesn't seem to fit with this experience.
As OTACORB said (and that was a good reply), their business is iPhones, iPod touches and iPads now. They don't care about Macs or iPods (the classic has been ignored - even for a 'classic', the nano was butchered to make the touch seem more fully featured). Over the last year, they really couldn't have made that clearer.
I have used Macs for a long time, and thankfully I'm not due to replace my desktop or laptop until 2013 (I replace my desktop every 4 years and my laptop every 3 years). I'll be keeping an eye out. Who knows - I may be ready to dump the optical drive by then. But I better make sure everything's been through Handbrake first.
tl;dr Why are we discussing this, well never agree. You might not use optical drives, we still do. End of story.
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I get your point totally, but for anyone who wishes to have the new Mac Mini 2011 or MacBook Air that is just the way of it. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with Job's and company. However, in this case it is what it is and unless sales are dramatically impacted and the reason identified is because of the lack of an optical drive, then this is a done deal.
I have an external optical drive that I rarely use, but I have it for the same reason that GOD gave tits to a boar hog, just in case. LOL When I decided on my family project for the holidays I created them DVD's. However, I had two of my family members that ask me if I could give it to them on what they called thumb drives. Basically 2GB tiny USB flash drives which I purchased for $3 a piece at Office Depot in there counter bin.
You know we can sit here and look for reasons. I mean there are those that can likely find reason why we should still have floppy drives, but really? If you want one of these new computers and you need an optical there is a solution. END OF THE FREAKING STORY!
No we won't ever agree, but it is fun to watch folks go from one extreme view one way and the other. Reality is though as I said Apple has the last call and the consumer then has a choice, either buy it or not. I don't see sales impacted, but what do I know? hehehe
I'm aware that most of us cared when the iMac G3 didn't have a floppy drive. Now, we look back and wonder what the fuss was about.
In 5 years time, will we look back at this thread and wonder what the hell we were arguing about? Probably.
But the fact of the matter is:
- By 1999, the vast majority of software came on CD. You really couldn't get software on floppy any more. In 2011, the vast majority of people still buy software, games, video and music on optical media. This makes the killing of the optical drive a little different from the killing of the floppy.
- Having an external drive on a desktop machine is a little bit daft, especially since Apple is the king of 'no messy cables' and 'everything you'd probably need is built right in'.
In 5 years time, will we look back at this thread and wonder what the hell we were arguing about? Probably.
But the fact of the matter is:
- By 1999, the vast majority of software came on CD. You really couldn't get software on floppy any more. In 2011, the vast majority of people still buy software, games, video and music on optical media. This makes the killing of the optical drive a little different from the killing of the floppy.
- Having an external drive on a desktop machine is a little bit daft, especially since Apple is the king of 'no messy cables' and 'everything you'd probably need is built right in'.