Why not let 4s users update to older iOS versions?

Dmaynard83

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 16, 2012
824
66
If the phone ran silky smooth when the 4s was first released why not let 4s users update to an older version?

It seems irrational that apple force these users to upgrade with the assumption that it will be a better experience when in reality it slows down their device.
 

pmau

macrumors 68000
Nov 9, 2010
1,542
777
1) Developer Tools / iOS Version support missing
2) Support old code without proper build environment
3) Possible refunds in App Store
 

Dmaynard83

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 16, 2012
824
66
1) Developer Tools / iOS Version support missing

2) Support old code without proper build environment

3) Possible refunds in App Store

That's fine. If apps don't work then I'm sure it's understandable. There can be a disclaimer only works with iOS version X+.

Just saying the phone should still have the same smoothness as it was on release. I'm sure many people would probably still just use a 4s for the basic functions (calling, texting, Siri, web browsing).
 

bradl

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2008
4,006
11,823
That's fine. If apps don't work then I'm sure it's understandable. There can be a disclaimer only works with iOS version X+.

Just saying the phone should still have the same smoothness as it was on release. I'm sure many people would probably still just use a 4s for the basic functions (calling, texting, Siri, web browsing).
Not for nothing, but my 4S has the same smoothness on 7.1.2 today that it had on release day with 5.x.

BL.
 

cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,313
1,696
It would make of mess with OS fragmentation. Apple would need to start updating old software for bug and security fixes.

You mention it's ok if apps don't work. However it's not, devs would need to write software so it does work because that's how a lot of them make a living. That is more work, which ends up costing them more money. That cost they'd need to eat or pass onto the consumer.

So they'd need to pick there poison. Not make all the money they possibly can or spend more time and money making different versions of an app.

My 4S on 7.1.2 is fairly smooth btw. I'd suggest a restore as new if you are having issues.
 

sunking101

macrumors 604
Sep 19, 2013
6,671
1,812
It's a fact that the iPhone 4 was pretty much crippled by iOS7 (even iOS6 noticeably slowed it down), and the 4S has had the equivalent of an iOS6 slowdown given to it courtesy of iOS7. Sure it's nothing like as bad as the iPhone 4, but nobody can seriously say that the 4S performs 'as new' with iOS7. Acceptable to many yes, but not as smooth nor fast as it was on the original o/s.

Nobody really gained any unmissable features by installing iOS7 and nothing was worth the price of slowing down the phone. Of course some will say that Apple did good by giving them the latest system but c'mon, older devices just don't run as well with it. I updated my Android tablet from Jelly Bean to KitKat and noticed zero lag or any performance issues. Why Apple seem to introduce these detrimental 'features' is beyond me. Good coding would allow the introduction of new features without slowing *everything* down. It just has to be done on purpose with obsolescence in mind.
 

I7guy

macrumors Core
Nov 30, 2013
20,457
8,283
Gotta be in it to win it
From apples point of view I can why they don't patch every version going back.

However I'm very happy to be able to update to 7.1.2 on my two iPad 2s and 2 iPhone 4. I'm very happy with the support apple shows for it's older devices.
 

Yoshi Yogurt

macrumors regular
Nov 5, 2010
205
32
It's a fact that the iPhone 4 was pretty much crippled by iOS7 (even iOS6 noticeably slowed it down), and the 4S has had the equivalent of an iOS6 slowdown given to it courtesy of iOS7. Sure it's nothing like as bad as the iPhone 4, but nobody can seriously say that the 4S performs 'as new' with iOS7. Acceptable to many yes, but not as smooth nor fast as it was on the original o/s.

Nobody really gained any unmissable features by installing iOS7 and nothing was worth the price of slowing down the phone. Of course some will say that Apple did good by giving them the latest system but c'mon, older devices just don't run as well with it. I updated my Android tablet from Jelly Bean to KitKat and noticed zero lag or any performance issues. Why Apple seem to introduce these detrimental 'features' is beyond me. Good coding would allow the introduction of new features without slowing *everything* down. It just has to be done on purpose with obsolescence in mind.
The iphone 4S is not at all slow on the most recent iOS 7...
 

eyoungren

macrumors Core
Aug 31, 2011
21,183
13,026
ten-zero-eleven-zero-zero by zero-two
Another reason Apple doesn't allow you to downgrade…

Because an earlier version may be jailbreakable. Apple battles the jailbreak community non-stop. Allowing you to downgrade so that you can jailbreak is not something Apple wants to do.
 

Winona Northdakota

macrumors 6502a
Dec 27, 2010
580
1
If the phone ran silky smooth when the 4s was first released why not let 4s users update to an older version?

It seems irrational that apple force these users to upgrade with the assumption that it will be a better experience when in reality it slows down their device.

It wouldn't updating, it would be downgrading.
 

OneMike

macrumors 603
Oct 19, 2005
5,598
1,490
1) Developer Tools / iOS Version support missing

2) Support old code without proper build environment

3) Possible refunds in App Store

These are not really valid as apps just could be limited made to require x version of iOS to prevent this.
 

Applejuiced

macrumors Westmere
Apr 16, 2008
40,650
6,404
At the iPhone hacks section.
Another reason Apple doesn't allow you to downgrade…

Because an earlier version may be jailbreakable. Apple battles the jailbreak community non-stop. Allowing you to downgrade so that you can jailbreak is not something Apple wants to do.
Bingo.
That's the number one reason.
Before with early hardware all you had to do is hold shift or the option key and select an older ipsw version and downgrade with iTunes.
Then Apple came out with shsh blobs and then apt ticket and more complex software and hardware ways to make it impossible for a man in the middle shsh blob replay or bypassing their firmware verification via iTunes.
 

joeblow7777

macrumors 603
Sep 7, 2010
5,968
6,759
Another reason Apple doesn't allow you to downgrade…

Because an earlier version may be jailbreakable. Apple battles the jailbreak community non-stop. Allowing you to downgrade so that you can jailbreak is not something Apple wants to do.
I actually have a theory that Apple doesn't really want to stop jailbreaking. They don't want it to run rampant, which is why they make some efforts to stay ahead of it, and certainly don't endorse it, but the revenue they lose because of it is probably less than what they'd lose if all the people who are unsatisfied with stock iOS switched to Android.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Core
Aug 31, 2011
21,183
13,026
ten-zero-eleven-zero-zero by zero-two
I actually have a theory that Apple doesn't really want to stop jailbreaking. They don't want it to run rampant, which is why they make some efforts to stay ahead of it, and certainly don't endorse it, but the revenue they lose because of it is probably less than what they'd lose if all the people who are unsatisfied with stock iOS switched to Android.
Hmmm…I can see your point, but I'm not sure I agree. That's not to say you're wrong, I'm not arguing that.

I see it more this way. Apple spends the effort necessary to make it very difficult for the average user to leave the confines of iOS. At this level Apple is absolutely dedicated to making sure the average user can't break out. They also spend a considerable amount of time putting the word out about how bad and wrong and evil it is.

Piracy, voided warranty, unstable, insecure, etc. And the typical Apple fanboy you can find on Apple's forums helps Apple spread the bad word. This stops everyone except the dedicated user. Those Apple can't really do much about because they either know more than the average user or are willing to learn. The effort to stop those users isn't worth the investment. So, Apple makes a best effort and then moves on. In some cases it lets the jailbreakers find out their security holes for them. In that way, I could see your theory having merit.

In short, I think Apple is highly dedicated to stopping the common user, but recognizes that there is not much they can do to stop the determined user who is hell bent on breaking out.

Just my take. Again, not saying you're wrong.

----------

Bingo.
That's the number one reason.
Before with early hardware all you had to do is hold shift or the option key and select an older ipsw version and downgrade with iTunes.
Then Apple came out with shsh blobs and then apt ticket and more complex software and hardware ways to make it impossible for a man in the middle shsh blob replay or bypassing their firmware verification via iTunes.
Yep. It comes down to control. Apple wants to control your experience and is unwilling to cede that control to you.

In some ways, especially in light of the same old inane, moronic and repeated questions on the JB forum, I have to agree with Apple.

Some people should not be allowed to jailbreak.
 

cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,313
1,696
Hmmm…I can see your point, but I'm not sure I agree. That's not to say you're wrong, I'm not arguing that.

I see it more this way. Apple spends the effort necessary to make it very difficult for the average user to leave the confines of iOS. At this level Apple is absolutely dedicated to making sure the average user can't break out. They also spend a considerable amount of time putting the word out about how bad and wrong and evil it is.

Piracy, voided warranty, unstable, insecure, etc. And the typical Apple fanboy you can find on Apple's forums helps Apple spread the bad word. This stops everyone except the dedicated user. Those Apple can't really do much about because they either know more than the average user or are willing to learn. The effort to stop those users isn't worth the investment. So, Apple makes a best effort and then moves on. In some cases it lets the jailbreakers find out their security holes for them. In that way, I could see your theory having merit.

In short, I think Apple is highly dedicated to stopping the common user, but recognizes that there is not much they can do to stop the determined user who is hell bent on breaking out.

Just my take. Again, not saying you're wrong.

----------


Yep. It comes down to control. Apple wants to control your experience and is unwilling to cede that control to you.

In some ways, especially in light of the same old inane, moronic and repeated questions on the JB forum, I have to agree with Apple.

Some people should not be allowed to jailbreak.

Plus stopping jail breaking helps Apple protect their investment. Not all jail breakers are guilty of this but piracy doesn't help Apple.

I found mind numbingly easy to pirate apps on Android. Generally you can google search the app name + .apk and find it and download it right from the mobile browser. Albeit not a safe thing to do.
 

Tubamajuba

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2011
2,072
2,008
here
It's a fact that the iPhone 4 was pretty much crippled by iOS7 (even iOS6 noticeably slowed it down), and the 4S has had the equivalent of an iOS6 slowdown given to it courtesy of iOS7. Sure it's nothing like as bad as the iPhone 4, but nobody can seriously say that the 4S performs 'as new' with iOS7. Acceptable to many yes, but not as smooth nor fast as it was on the original o/s.

Nobody really gained any unmissable features by installing iOS7 and nothing was worth the price of slowing down the phone. Of course some will say that Apple did good by giving them the latest system but c'mon, older devices just don't run as well with it. I updated my Android tablet from Jelly Bean to KitKat and noticed zero lag or any performance issues. Why Apple seem to introduce these detrimental 'features' is beyond me. Good coding would allow the introduction of new features without slowing *everything* down. It just has to be done on purpose with obsolescence in mind.
After two to three major updates, no iOS device performs like it did when brand new. The 4S is probably going to handle iOS 8 better than the 4 did iOS 7, and even how the 3GS handled iOS 6. As mobile hardware gets exponentially faster, it becomes less likely that OS updates tax the hardware beyond the point of usability.

Take a look at OS X- the last time Apple dropped support for any machines was Mountain Lion. The minimum RAM requirement has been 2 GB since Lion. The last version of Windows to be considered bloated was Vista in 2006. Desktop and laptop hardware has advanced faster than the rate of software bloat, and mobile hardware is soon to follow.

Now, you do raise an interesting point with KitKat. One of the main focuses of KitKat was to streamline Android and make it perform better on older devices. It would be nice if Apple, either in a major .0 or minor .1 release, did the same thing for iOS. Such an undertaking would benefit the newer devices, too.
 

joeblow7777

macrumors 603
Sep 7, 2010
5,968
6,759
Hmmm…I can see your point, but I'm not sure I agree. That's not to say you're wrong, I'm not arguing that.

I see it more this way. Apple spends the effort necessary to make it very difficult for the average user to leave the confines of iOS. At this level Apple is absolutely dedicated to making sure the average user can't break out. They also spend a considerable amount of time putting the word out about how bad and wrong and evil it is.

Piracy, voided warranty, unstable, insecure, etc. And the typical Apple fanboy you can find on Apple's forums helps Apple spread the bad word. This stops everyone except the dedicated user. Those Apple can't really do much about because they either know more than the average user or are willing to learn. The effort to stop those users isn't worth the investment. So, Apple makes a best effort and then moves on. In some cases it lets the jailbreakers find out their security holes for them. In that way, I could see your theory having merit.

In short, I think Apple is highly dedicated to stopping the common user, but recognizes that there is not much they can do to stop the determined user who is hell bent on breaking out.

Just my take. Again, not saying you're wrong.
I think of it kind of like in the Matrix. It's revealed in the second movie that the machines actually don't mind a small percentage of humanity rejecting the Matrix, because as long as humans have a subconscious choice in the matter, the vast majority accept the Matrix anyway. It's actually more harmful to the system if humans have no choice.

So within the "Matrix" of iOS, there would actually be more discourse and a higher level of rejection if jailbreaking was not an option. It just can't be made so easy that more than a relatively small percentage are inclined to do so.

Again, this is just my own personal theory, but I think there's some logic to it.
 

joeblow7777

macrumors 603
Sep 7, 2010
5,968
6,759
On the other hand why do they support a 2 year old phone at all? It's a good thing.
You think supporting a device for 2 years after its release is special??

In the real world, most people don't replace their devices every year you know. Considering that most people get phones on 2 year contracts (and not necessarily the latest model), that's the bare minimum they should be supported for.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Core
Aug 31, 2011
21,183
13,026
ten-zero-eleven-zero-zero by zero-two
I think of it kind of like in the Matrix. It's revealed in the second movie that the machines actually don't mind a small percentage of humanity rejecting the Matrix, because as long as humans have a subconscious choice in the matter, the vast majority accept the Matrix anyway. It's actually more harmful to the system if humans have no choice.

So within the "Matrix" of iOS, there would actually be more discourse and a higher level of rejection if jailbreaking was not an option. It just can't be made so easy that more than a relatively small percentage are inclined to do so.

Again, this is just my own personal theory, but I think there's some logic to it.
Stated this way I can agree with your theory. :)
 

ermir4444

macrumors regular
Oct 25, 2009
208
0
Toronto On
My 4s was rather slow whith iOS 7. The animations were choppy and it would crash regularly.

However, after tinkering with settings by reduced motion, transparency, whitepoint and darkening the colors, it made it perform much faster and smoother.

The app switching motion and transparency were really taking the toll and making the experience jarring. After these were removed, it feels like a new phone.
 

The Doctor11

macrumors 603
Dec 15, 2013
5,907
1,291
New York
If the phone ran silky smooth when the 4s was first released why not let 4s users update to an older version?

It seems irrational that apple force these users to upgrade with the assumption that it will be a better experience when in reality it slows down their device.
Wait wait wait wait... Who's forcing you to do what?:confused:
There are many reasons. One is that if your phone was awesome and perfect why would you upgrade?
 

cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,313
1,696
Wait wait wait wait... Who's forcing you to do what?:confused:

There are many reasons. One is that if your phone was awesome and perfect why would you upgrade?

Apple is essentially. The update will download automatically using storage space. Which then waits for your permission to install.

Any software or hardware problem will likely cause you to get the latest update (restore, trip to a genius, etc).

Lack of support if required.

Then a constant reminder there is an update. While only annoying is still there. Albeit I think there is a jailbreak tweak for that.

Technically you are correct in saying no one is forcing you but Apple makes it just as big of a pain not to update as it is a pain to have the update assuming the update causes you problems.

However like I mentioned iOS 7 has been fine on my iPhone 4S.