Why Panther and the 970 (or whatever) better Rock?

[MorganX]

Sony is offering seven new desktop Vaio PCs as part of its lineup:

• The PCV-RS310, which costs $899, comes with a 2.4GHz Pentium 4 processor, 256MB of memory, an 80GB hard drive, a DVD-RW drive and a CD-RW drive.

• The PCV-RS320, at $1,099, comes with a 2.6GHz Pentium 4 processor with Intel's hyperthreading technology, 512MB of memory, a 120GB hard drive, a DVD-RW drive and a CD-RW drive.

• The PCV-RZ32G costs $1,299 and comes with a 2.6GHz Pentium 4 processor with Intel's hyperthreading technology, 512MB of memory, an 80GB hard drive, a DVD+RW/-RW drive and a CD-RW drive.

• The PCV-RZ34G, at $1,599, offers a 2.8GHz Pentium 4 processor with Intel's hyperthreading technology, 512MB of memory, a 120GB hard drive, a DVD+RW/-RW drive and a CD-RW drive.

• The PCV-RZ36G, priced at $2,199, will come with a 3.0GHz Pentium 4 processor with Intel's hyperthreading technology, 1GB of memory, a 160GB hard drive, a DVD+RW/-RW drive and a CD-RW drive.

• The PCV-RZ30GN4 costs $1,649 and comes with a 2.8GHz Pentium 4 processor with Intel's hyperthreading technology, 512MB of memory, a 200GB hard drive, a DVD+RW/-RW drive and a CD-RW drive.

• The PCV-RZ30GN2, at $1,199, comes with a 2.4GHz Pentium 4 processor with Intel's hyperthreading technology, 512MB of memory, an 80GB hard drive, a DVD-RW drive and a CD-RW drive.

Throw on a 17" Wide LCD on any of those. If it weren't for OS X.... That's why Longhorn is dangerous and why this consumer/prosumer designation sucks.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

so true, you got a 900 dollar machine that beats the crap out of a 1500 dollar mac 1 gig g4 powermac. This is why sales have crashed for the powermacs. This is why Motorola is no longer a option. this is why we not only need the 970 now but 970's scaling up right away as ibm says they will be able to.

 

[pEZ]

At least Apple has the "loyalty" thing going for it - "Once you go Mac, you'll never go back," etc.

And remember, Apple sells more computers than any other company.

 

[Macpoops]

How is longhorn at all dangerous? Yeah it's got some ideas that would give OSX a run for it's money but it's not scheduled to be released until 2005. Just as the G4 was built to compete with the P3, Longhorn is being built to compete with Jaguar. Until Longhorn is on the shelves, probably not until damn near 2006, i don't think it's at all dangerous

 

[strider42]

Originally posted by pEZ

And remember, Apple sells more computers than any other company.

thats not true. Apple has something like the 6th largest market share of any one maker. Apple is a strong company, but its no where near selling the most computers.

 

[springscansing]

Originally posted by strider42
thats not true. Apple has something like the 6th largest market share of any one maker. Apple is a strong company, but its no where near selling the most computers.

3rd. It was second till compaq and HP merged.

 

[zoetropeuk]

SONY - THE ONE AND ONLY ALRIGHT

Has anyone on this list ever owned a Sony machine? I used to work for a new media agency in London and we upgraded 7 old machines to 5 new vaio desktops and 2 vaio laptops. It was the biggest mistake we ever made.
The version of the OS is proprietory to sony and it is buggy as hell. Within two weeks we had to re-install all desktops and one of the laptops. If you try an re-install a standard version of win2000 or XP your CD-RW and DVD-RW will not work and all of the cool functions on the laptops eg jog shuttle, digital camera etc will not work. And there is no possible way you can install the software correctly on any other operating system.
After 4-6 weeks two of the desktops would NOT BOOT AT ALL. We couldn't even re-install the OS, emergeny boot disks failed.
To put it bluntly they were the worst PC's I have ever, ever used. My $35 PC I picked up on ebay as a joke for a friend was actually more reliable.

 

[jxyama]

i don't think we have to "worry" much.

after switching, i've come to believe that the underlying philosophy and principles apple works under are very solid and requires no extraneous effort to try to "rock." (read: this doesn't mean they aren't trying to be innovative...) i believe apple is not trying to make things that "rock." i have faith that things made under these principles will be good, regardless of the competition.

i now regard windows/PCs as a poor kluged version of apple products. sony is one exception i consider, but even then, the need to rely on MS for the OS does them in... i don't think the competitor's philosophy would allow the "imitation" products to match apple's.

you can imitate features. you can imitate ideas. but it will take almost revolutionary change and committment to imitate a philosophy.

if this seems extreme, it's probably because it is. call me a zealot/blind faithful/etc. whatever... i believe what i believe.

 

[pEZ]

Originally posted by springscansing
3rd. It was second till compaq and HP merged.

Point taken, I'm a moron. That's what I get for posting right after I wake up.

 

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by springscansing
3rd. It was second till compaq and HP merged.

I read in the MacUser UK (Feb. edition-a bit old, I know), that Apple was 5th....
Dell was 2nd there.... HP (/Compaq) first.
Bad times. Help, IBM (who was 3rd). Come on 970!

 

[bbarnhart]

I was looking at this and it reminded me of the problem I was having earlier this year. I plunked down $2000 for a PowerMac Dual 1.25, but I was going to build or buy a PC because they were cheaper.

But, looking at them carefully, you can only compare the high end PCs to the dual 1.25 and dual 1.42 Power Macs. Apple doesn't really sell low-end headless boxes. By going to the Dell website and finding a 699 PC and say "This is cheaper" isn't a fair argument.

I do agree that what Apple sells now (Power Mac) is more expensive that a high-end consumer Dell (or Sony or HP). But, the cost of buying different software and not begin able to use Mac OS X evened things out a bit. Also remember that Apple has to have higher margins to stay afloat. For the last 6-8 quarters computer sales have been a wash and nearly all of the profits have been from investments. Apple isn't a software company or a hardware company. They're a bank!

 

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by bbarnhart

Apple isn't a software company or a hardware company. They're a bank!

Kinda Fort Knox.... the way they keep secrets.

 

[vniow]

Re: SONY - THE ONE AND ONLY ALRIGHT

Sony's alright, my parents just bought a brand new one awhile ago, no problems so far, the case is real nice and easy to upgrade and such, I've heard horror stories of people with Sony products before, but we've never had any serious problems with them...

 

[cubist]

I don't think MorganX was singling out Sony as Apple's competition, but Sony/Dell/HP/Micron/Emachines as a group; the Wintel machines are almost indistinguishable from each other.

All the low-end PCs have graphics on the motherboard, which is crap and hurts performance because they use "shared video memory" (like the Mac IIci, if anyone remembers that). None of Dell's sub-$1K machines are usable for gaming. Such machines compare more to the iMac, but you have to add in the cost of a monitor.

To compare to a PowerMac you must have an AGP 4X slot with a fairly good card sitting in that slot. And don't forget to include the cost of the optical drives and, most importantly, the software. XP Home is certainly not comparable to Mac OS X.

Sony, in particular, seems to produce hardware which is difficult to repair or maintain. Even their home electronics (TVs, etc.) have a nasty reputation. They may never break -- but if they do, well, don't call me.

 

[Ryan1524]

althou loayalty is good and benefiacial for apple, i wodner how much longer will people keep shelling out 2500$ more for an inferior hardware. althou Macs ahve the OS X benefit, how long will the 'mhz doesn't matter' believe holds. apple needs to do something big, fast. i'd hate it to see apple fall.

 

[hvfsl]

Apple will be dead by the end of the year if they do not bring out much faster/cheaper Macs. They have a massive load of unsold PMacs, the only place they are doing well is in the notebooks.

Also something needs to be done about Mac OS X because a lot of Apps run faster in Mac OS 9. This is because Mac OS 9 does one thing at a time, but Mac OS X can be doing many things at once which can slow down apps like games that would normally be run on their own.

 

[Ryan1524]

Originally posted by hvfsl
<snip>
Also something needs to be done about Mac OS X because a lot of Apps run faster in Mac OS 9. This is because Mac OS 9 does one thing at a time, but Mac OS X can be doing many things at once which can slow down apps like games that would normally be run on their own.

just as any multitasking OS behave. when you do more things at the same time, you get tired and confsed real fast.
what they need is more RAM (not a problem) and faster CPUs NOW. the lagging should be solved with a faster and even mroe efficient processor.

 

[alia]

Re: SONY - THE ONE AND ONLY ALRIGHT

Originally posted by zoetropeuk
Has anyone on this list ever owned a Sony machine? I used to work for a new media agency in London and we upgraded 7 old machines to 5 new vaio desktops and 2 vaio laptops. It was the biggest mistake we ever made.
The version of the OS is proprietory to sony and it is buggy as hell. Within two weeks we had to re-install all desktops and one of the laptops. If you try an re-install a standard version of win2000 or XP your CD-RW and DVD-RW will not work and all of the cool functions on the laptops eg jog shuttle, digital camera etc will not work. And there is no possible way you can install the software correctly on any other operating system.
After 4-6 weeks two of the desktops would NOT BOOT AT ALL. We couldn't even re-install the OS, emergeny boot disks failed.
To put it bluntly they were the worst PC's I have ever, ever used. My $35 PC I picked up on ebay as a joke for a friend was actually more reliable.

I currently own a Sony Vaio and I ABSOLUTELY agree with you. It has been the WORST machine I've ever used, even worse than my stepmother's awful Compaq. The proprietary OS stinks and the hard drive seems to eat itself. I've had to reinstally the OS numerous times. I also have a 4 year old Dell that I've never had to do anything with, so it's not just a PC thing. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who detests Sony PCs.

That crappy Sony is what had me starting to look at Apple again for a laptop.

Alia

 

[5300cs]

I third the notion: Sony notebooks suck. I've had 3 and they've all sucked.
I had the CD drive icon disappear once- that was one of many reformats ('cause that stupid repair console did nothing )

I tried putting Win2K on it, but that was another full-day nightmare (and reformat)

Even had to jump through hoops trying to put linux on it (FireWire CD drive) with things like expert all ide1=0x180,0=386 then the installer would freeze half-way.

rrrrgh Sony sux

 

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by hvfsl
Apple will be dead by the end of the year if they do not bring out much faster/cheaper Macs.

And how did you formulate this brilliant analysis?

The Mac is dead. Long live the Mac.

 

[Zeke]

Originally posted by 5300cs
I third the notion: Sony notebooks suck. I've had 3 and they've all sucked.
I had the CD drive icon disappear once- that was one of many reformats ('cause that stupid repair console did nothing )

I tried putting Win2K on it, but that was another full-day nightmare (and reformat)

Even had to jump through hoops trying to put linux on it (FireWire CD drive) with things like expert all ide1=0x180,0=386 then the installer would freeze half-way.

rrrrgh Sony sux

What I don't understand is why you'd buy 3 laptops that all sucked. I can understand 2. The first cause it's a Sony, it must be good. The second because the first was a fluke but the third? No offense but I don't understand this...

 

[TyleRomeo]

Originally posted by Macpoops
How is longhorn at all dangerous? Yeah it's got some ideas that would give OSX a run for it's money but it's not scheduled to be released until 2005. Just as the G4 was built to compete with the P3, Longhorn is being built to compete with Jaguar. Until Longhorn is on the shelves, probably not until damn near 2006, i don't think it's at all dangerous

exactly, just immagine where OSX will be in 3 years from now. microsoft will always be years behind mac's OS.

Tyler

 

[MorganX]

Originally posted by Macpoops
How is longhorn at all dangerous? Yeah it's got some ideas that would give OSX a run for it's money but it's not scheduled to be released until 2005. Just as the G4 was built to compete with the P3, Longhorn is being built to compete with Jaguar. Until Longhorn is on the shelves, probably not until damn near 2006, i don't think it's at all dangerous

Actually, I don't consider OS X to be competing with XP or Longhorn for business/enterprise computing, or gaming. There is no contest. OS X and the supporting hardware and software infrastructure has so far to go it will never challenge Windows in these areas. IMO.

Where XP and Longhorn are in competition with Apple, for it's 3% and any possible future switchers, is high end personal computing, SOHO, and general prosumer use.

On the hardware front, the PC is the clear choice, with the exception of aesthetics. The OS is harder to call, but the aesthetics and usability of some of iLife are big there.

When I say Longhorn is dangerous, it is because Longhorn will appeal to that 3-5% that currently abandon them for one reason or another.

I have no dobut that Longhorn will not only surpass Quartz Extreme, but Microsoft and all of the ISVs on the PC platform will make meaninful use of the capabilities in the UI. (Longhorn will be modular as well, there's much more going on than GDI++). I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just saying I believe that is going to happen regardless of our personal preferences. And it will affect Apple.

In addition MS is pushing hardware developers to design more aesthetically pleasing hardware. So, if you remove the advantage of designe and aesthetics, what's left? Overpriced hardware.

That is why "I" believe, Apple needs to never release another cacheless machine that costs more than $1000, should reevaluate the consumer/prosumer designation and that Panther better rock.

Someone basically said it's a foregone conclusion that Panther and 970s will rock. I'm skeptical. Look at ITMS. How can you just now be looking for a PC Developer. I mean, come on, where's the forward-thinking on the business front?

 

[MorganX]

Originally posted by hvfsl
Apple will be dead by the end of the year if they do not bring out much faster/cheaper Macs. They have a massive load of unsold PMacs, the only place they are doing well is in the notebooks.

They may be irrelevant, but not dead. Apple can survive a loooong time of a small marketshare becasue it is margin-based. Once they have iWorks, Safari, and a rumored financial app, they can go on forever as long as 3-5% of a humongous market is willing to pay the premium.

 

[Ugg]

Originally posted by MorganX
Look at ITMS. How can you just now be looking for a PC Developer. I mean, come on, where's the forward-thinking on the business front?

Just because they posted a job doesn't mean that they hadn't begun development. What it probably meant was that Apple was looking for an additional developer so as to hasten the process as well as announce to the world that they were developing a windows version. Your assumption is probably erroneous.