Why so expensive?

[womble2k2]

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One question, why do MacBook pros cost so much? Compared to pc laptops

1. Suppier spec / build quality than PC laptops (yes, you can configure similar spec PC laptops, but they don't have all of MBP features such as LED backlit display with wide colour gamet, FW800, 802.11n, 7 hour battery with 1000 charge cycles, dual integrated and discrete graphics, etc).
2. Superior OS, built on Unix / Mach kernal. Better overall security, fewer virus attacks, etc.
3. Superior hardware design that helps the MBP hold values better. Try selling a 3 year old machine and a 3 year old PC laptop, and you'll find a huge difference.
4. Better support - As Apple roll out more retail outlets, more people will have access to the Genius Bar which is excellent. Where can you go with a PC to get the same level of service.
5. Everything just works on MBPs (and all Apple computers). No worrying about driver support, DLLs, clashes, blue screen of death, etc.
6. A premium brand.
7. Supplied software such as iLife, Front Row, Time Machine, etc, are far superior than what you get with a PC.

In my mind, it's not the purchase price that's important, but value for money.

Value for money can only be calculated when you take everything into account.

Previous to my MBP, I had an iBook G4. This lost approx 40% of it's value in 3.5 years. An equivalent PC laptop would have lost over 90% of it's value. In currency terms, it cost a lot less to have an iBook G4 for 3.5 years than a PC!

Once you've used OS x for a month or two, you'll dred using a windows machine again! My employer is very Windows based, and I find using my work laptop stressful whilst using my MBP is a pleasure. When working from home, I often just access work emails from Outlook Web Access and work on my MBP.

Yes, I spent a lot of money buying a June 09 2.8GHz MBP, but between myself and my girlfriend, it gets used for approx 40 hours per week (2000 hours per year). If I keep it for 3 years, and sell for just 35% of it's purchase price (well below what I'd expect it to be worth) then the cost of having the MBP is about £0.16 ($0.25) per hour!

Is this expensive?

Phil

 

[CrackedButter]

You pay for osx. 2 or more grand is a lot for electronics. btw, no one cares when you brag about your camera. I understand if its for work. But its kinda ridiculous having like a nikon d3x for family photos.

FAIL.

My website is in my sig, you'd realise how much I need an expensive camera. I also wasn't bragging, it was called making a point. It's not like I specified what camera I had. Nice try at a retort. To those that responded to this troll by accepting I use a Nikon D3x for family pics better think again.

My original point was about value for money, I get more value out of my supposedly expensive laptop than I do with my camera but I paid more for my camera.

 

[womble2k2]

Another way of looking at it, is why do premium brands of cars, e.g., BMW, Mercedes, etc, cost more than their equilavently spec'ed Fords or Vauxhall / General Motors?

Why do Sony / Panasonic / Pioneer TVs cost more than equivalently spec'ed value brands?

Why are Hilton / InterContinetal hotels more expensive than Best Western?

I could go on, but the rationale behind people's purchasing decisions goes well beyond the price.

Obviously you need to work within your budgets, but most people will opt for the best item they can purchase within their budget that meets their requirements.

Although I made the decision to buy another Apple notebook during a recession, Apples quarterly results still surprised me. As it is a premium brand, I did expect it to be hit by people opting for lower priced alternative.

The upside of Apple's performance is that as well as built quality, Apple are well known for maintaining a higher R&D budget than it's competitors. With the sales remaining high, that means more new products on the design boards!

Phil

 

[J&JPolangin]

...I've been a PC/win user for a lot of years (the first machine I bought was a 386sx16mhz)... my two newest machines winXP machines are below in my sig (and I have two other older winXP machines that still run well - you just have to maintain the winXP machines)... the Sony TR3 and the netbook are basically the same speed tech (the Sony is almost 7 yrs old and the netbook is 1+ yr old)...

I decided to get a prev gen iMac to make the switch and see if I liked it enough to use full time as it wasn't much more $$ than a Mac mini current gen (after upgrades to make it decent spec)... I like it and OS X enough to get the whitebook in my sig... lets face it I don't like win products for at least the first 6 months they are out and Vista was something I knew I didn't want to deal with at all (I use a couple friends Vista machines and don't like them, period)...

These two macs will last me at least the 6+ yrs that I've gotten out of my other winXP machines and by then the tech will be totally different = so I'm happy and getting the prev gen models from the base PX was a good deal (the cost of a refurb on a new machine with out paying additional tax or shipping costs)...

 

[zw-gator]

Some people just don’t care about paying a small premium for a computer that has a better build quality, OS X, way better design etc.

Sure, I may pay $200 more then I should for my 13” MBP, but over the lifetime of the laptop, who cares?

Not to mention I’ll get back the premium I paid when I go to resell it.

 

[Ping Guo]

1. Unibody Aluminium build
2. OS X
3. Overall far higher quality than a HP or Dell.

But really, considering all the above plus the way I can do what I want, reliably and professionally without fuss is why I buy

1. Looks and feels nice, but scratches and dents easily. Carbon fiber is lighter and stronger.
2. Really the only reason to pay more for an Apple Laptop.
3. Uh, they use the same bargain bin parts as every other PC manufacturer, even worse in some cases. (Lenovo offers Intel SSDs for example).

Foxconn makes the MB, MBPs, and MBA, along with the Mac Mini, iPods, and iPhone. They also make Dells, HPs, XBox360, Wii, and PS3. All made by the same manufacturer. It's not like Apple makes their own products in some sort of special facility and their quality control is any better than anybody else's.

Consumers pay for better, trendier design and brand-name recognition, along with OSX. Whereas Windows PCs are pretty much commodities with the same software and more-or-less same components, Apple's margins reflect more of a fashion, luxury marque market.

Why can Chanel or Hermes charge 10x more than another brand for a bag or scarf? Because they market and sell an image. Apple does the same.

 

[hazza.jockel]

I would say its for the cool little apple logo that lights up on the screen

nah really i agree with most people above i.e. you pay for the little things (blutooth, backlit keyboard, magsafe, wireless n, IR receiver etc) + good software (iLife, leopard and its features) + good service.

Oh did i mention in Australia you can get up to a 50% education discount on laptops from Mr K Rudd. so its actually pretty cheap.

 

[felt.]

it's expensive because you have limiting beliefs regarding money.

 

[Trexznl]

they seem pretty reasonable to me, with the change of pricing and specs i think theyre pretty good deals now.

everything has its price and apple is no exception.
theyve always been a luxury brand, from my understandings and look at apple, its more about an all inclusive package deal.
They design the harware to work with the software, vice versa, creating a unique end user experience.
most PC manufactures assemble machines without really any sort of artistic inhibition, its just trying to store a bunch of stuff together under one enclosure etc etc.

The pricing can be allotted to an assortment of things i see it as.
they have a streamlined product line up as opposed to too many options, its nice ot have options but too many confuse the consumer and dont always really make much sense; in my opinion.

I like how they put everything together and they do it well, it make sense.

besides everyone i know with similar spec machines (17" core 2duos) or variants dont get nearly anywhere near the good battery life i have nor is their display all that much to run home about.

Quoted For Truth!

Also, I think that most people tend to forget that Apple's also got R&D costs of the OS itself. They've got to build the OS AND the machine. Some other manufacturer can just throw a heap of parts together in some fubar casing and then install Windows on it and be done with it.

 

[CrackedButter]

it's expensive because you have limiting beliefs regarding money.

Perfect, everything summed up in a sentence.

 

[Davidkoh]

Oh really?

A Vostro 1520 with 2.53 GHz processor, 4 GB RAM, 250 GB HDD, WXGA+ display, GeForce 9300M GS, and Vista HP costs $1105. That's $600 less than a comparable MBP.

An HP HDX16t with 2.66 GHz processor, 4 GB RAM, 320 GB HDD, 1080p display, GeForce 9600M GT, and Vista HP costs $1250. That's $700 less than a comparable MBP.

If you keep piling on the options, a Windows laptop will be much less expensive.

The only price Apple beats Dell (haven't checked HP) in is for workstations. The Mac Pro is the obvious choice, although a comparable Dell Precision will take far more RAM.

IMO, the HP looks great, although I prefer the simplicity of the MBP.

Okay, how long battery life does the dell provide in real life? Can it handle 7-8 hours of browsing? Does it come with an aluminium body?

 

[mags631]

Pretty much this. Apple charges these prices because people still buy at these prices.

...Like everything else in life... So this is not really answering the OP's question.

 

[AnotherFanBoy]

As it is a premium brand, I did expect it to be hit by people opting for lower priced alternative.

I would suggest it is because when people buy a new computer, they are expecting it to last, so their decision to buy goes way beyond the end of the recession and therefore their lack of disposable income isn't as much as a factor because they may think "the extra $200 over 4 years isn't that bad".

It sounded so much clearer in my head and I hope it made sense out loud. Either way it's only my 2c and isn't a proven theory or anything.

 

[macboy4]

I'd really like to know the manufacturing cost of the MBP. Apple sure loves to make money, they have more than $25 billion in the bank, and sure they make more by making these MBPs really expensive, but they could benefit if more and more people bought them at a cheaper price, as in hold a bigger market share of people that will then update to future Macbooks.

If Apple is giving a student discount on a $1200 MBP to make it $1100, then you can probably guess they're still making plenty of money on students. And we all know that RAM and HD from Apple are also overpriced. Just imagine if Apple went bare minimum and tried selling the MBP for about $950. People would see this simple, sexy, powerful laptop for so cheap and they would instantly buy it. Microsoft has the advantage of how many different companies try and use their OS. So there's the alienware high end line and then the dell and hp low end lines that appeal to the mainstream audience. If Apple had actually reduced their prices, they would have gotten a huge market share before Windows 7 comes out.

See: http://www.appleinsider.com/article...acs_rumored_with_compelling_new_features.html

They already did this with the laptop lineup, and it's likely they're going to do it again with the iMac.

How are they doing this? Money quote: the latest touch-screen handsets generate profits so high -- estimated at nearly 60% for the 32GB iPhone 3GS -- that the proceeds from sales of the devices are helping Apple absorbed and offset margin hits in the highly-competitive personal computer market.

"Going forward Apple will recognize higher iPhone revenue carrying a higher gross margin," Muller said. "As iPhone revenue as a percentage or share of total revenue increases, the impact of the higher iPhone (gross margin) on overall (gross margin) will intensify. This will assuage margin pressures Apple faces in other areas."

Anecdotally, my last PC lasted less than two years and had a major repair after just 5 months. My PowerBook G4 lasted me 3.5 years and I sold it to a good friend whose wife is still using it every day; it's over 4 years old now and going strong.

That's just one reason, but I can think of many others.

 

[mikes70mustang]

FAIL.

My website is in my sig, you'd realise how much I need an expensive camera. I also wasn't bragging, it was called making a point. It's not like I specified what camera I had. Nice try at a retort. To those that responded to this troll by accepting I use a Nikon D3x for family pics better think again.

My original point was about value for money, I get more value out of my supposedly expensive laptop than I do with my camera but I paid more for my camera.

how original, another photographer with "outside of the box" thinking. but like i said, most people think their expensive. I sure hope you get more use out of your mac than your camera, be kinda hard runnin OSX on a viewfinder.

 

[AnotherFanBoy]

I'd really like to know the manufacturing cost of the MBP. Apple sure loves to make money, they have more than $25 billion in the bank, and sure they make more by making these MBPs really expensive, but they could benefit if more and more people bought them at a cheaper price, as in hold a bigger market share of people that will then update to future Macbooks.

If Apple is giving a student discount on a $1200 MBP to make it $1100, then you can probably guess they're still making plenty of money on students. And we all know that RAM and HD from Apple are also overpriced. Just imagine if Apple went bare minimum and tried selling the MBP for about $950. People would see this simple, sexy, powerful laptop for so cheap and they would instantly buy it. Microsoft has the advantage of how many different companies try and use their OS. So there's the alienware high end line and then the dell and hp low end lines that appeal to the mainstream audience. If Apple had actually reduced their prices, they would have gotten a huge market share before Windows 7 comes out.

That isn't how it works. You don't just think about the costs of the hardware, you think about the costs of design and R&D etc. You can't just base your assessment of the cost of the product on what the direct costs of the parts are.

Also, should they lower their prices, the laptop might not be so "simple, sexy" and "powerful".

 

[gianly1985]

One question, why do MacBook pros cost so much? Compared to pc laptops

- unibody aluminum case

- super-battery (not only last REAL 7-8hrs, also endures 3 x recharge cycles)

- 2,4-2,5cm tall and good weight (lightest 17" ever) without any trade-off in power and battery life

- unique glass multitouch trackpad

- well-made backlit keyboard

- beautiful glass screens

- ad-hoc optimized OS (but at the moment, the 13" uMBP, imho, is the choice even for running windows, there's no competition, no 13" can offer such value)

- beautiful design

These things, like it or not, have to be PAID. You can say "I don't care about materials or trackpad", but this doesn't change the fact that those features COST and have to be PAID.

I can't find a word to define people who compare notebooks only using brute specs. They'd deserve to order a laptop from a online store and instead get a pile of un-assembled and un-cased hardware shipped to their mailbox.

Luckily, only in forums you can find such people.

In real life people TOUCH stuff and USE stuff, that's why in the 1000$+ market (i.e. outside the "i don't really care about my pc-thingi, just gimme the cheaper" zone, kinda the target of Laptop Hunters ads) Apple dominates with 91% revenue share.

 

[AnotherFanBoy]

- unibody aluminum case

- super-battery (not only last REAL 7-8hrs, also endures 3 x recharge cycles)

- 2,4-2,5cm tall and good weight (lightest 17" ever) without any trade-off in power and battery life

- unique glass multitouch trackpad

- well-made backlit keyboard

- beautiful glass screens

- ad-hoc optimized OS (but at the moment, the 13" uMBP, imho, is the choice even for running windows, there's no competition, no 13" can offer such value)

- beautiful design

These things, like it or not, have to be PAID. You can say "I don't care about materials or trackpad", but this doesn't change the fact that those features COST and have to be PAID.

I can find a word to define people who compare notebooks only using brute specs. They'd deserve to ordere a laptop from a store and have a bunch of un-assembled and un-cased hardware shipped.

Luckily, only in forums you can find such people.

In real life people TOUCH stuff and USE stuff, that's why in the 1000$+ market (i.e. outside the "i don't really care about my pc-thingi, just gimme the cheaper" zone, kinda the target of Laptop Hunters ads) Apple dominates with 91% revenue share.

Perhaps a little heavy handed, but correct nonetheless.

 

[EMKarelia]

Because it worth it the buy.

 

[jjahshik32]

I think Apple's notebooks are median in pricing when it comes to notebooks.

There are far more expensive PC notebooks out there from Dell and Alienware.

 

[CrackedButter]

how original, another photographer with "outside of the box" thinking. but like i said, most people think their expensive. I sure hope you get more use out of your mac than your camera, be kinda hard runnin OSX on a viewfinder.

Typical example of why I don't post here often anymore. Everyone always has an axe to grind about something, who I am as a photographer doesn't even enter into this conversation.

What a stupid second sentence as well. My point was very simple, sorry you can't understand it properly.

 

[mikes70mustang]

Typical example of why I don't post here often anymore. Everyone always has an axe to grind about something, who I am as a photographer doesn't even enter into this conversation.

What a stupid second sentence as well. My point was very simple, sorry you can't understand it properly.

By your rationale cars are not expensive b/c many are worth the money and are very useful. So yah, $20,000 is chump change. And if it bothers you so much why do you keep posting?

 

[yargk]

Overall quality and experience are decent answers. I'm personally looking into them mostly for these reasons and the fact that I want Xcode and a better interface than Ubuntu.

However, it's ridiculous to call dells junk and think that direct spec comparisons aren't worth while. I'm still using a dell laptop as my primary computer that I bought in 2002. My sister just bought a dell 2.66 GHz, 4GB DDR3, 1GB radeon 4670, 500 GB 7200 rpm drive, 1080p LCD LED 15.6 inch screen $1280....

To match the screen resolution I have to get a 17 inch and even then I only get a 9600 GT video card. AND I'd have to spend 2300 with the education discount.

$1020 difference! (video card makes up for 2.8 v 2.66 difference imo)

There isn't a mac laptop that can match the graphics no matter the price.

 

[CrackedButter]

By your rationale cars are not expensive b/c many are worth the money and are very useful. So yah, $20,000 is chump change. And if it bothers you so much why do you keep posting?

Because I'm an optimist. It doesn't bother me as much as you think either, I am mindful to note this attitude from forum members.

I think something being expensive is all relative to the person buying it, which again is my point. If I'm going to spend nearly $3000 on a camera body, then I should have no qualms about purchasing a laptop that is also near that figure, how am I in a position to complain especially when the laptop is far more useful.