Why spend $2,500+ for only in 5 years of OS support?

[umbilical]

After check the supported Macs on Ventura, it only support MacBook Pros (2017 and newer), so if you have a 6 year old Macbook Pro, Apple fools you, blocking that you install Ventura.

So! I'm planning replace my great macbook pro 15 late 2013 (Big Sur, last supported OS) 9 years machine (around 7 years of OS installs) to a new MacbookPro for $2500+, but based on Ventura means that Apple will only give me 5 years to get the lasted OS's.

It seems Apple everyday short the time of support the latest OS to force people to buy new computers.

I bet the MBP can works for many more years than just five, but without getting the latest OS's, what's the point?

Yes, yes... I know Apple possibly will continue give security updates on the future old OS, but come on! I want the latest thing.

 

[chabig]

...but come on! I want the latest thing.

Except you don't, because if you did you'd buy a new Mac at least every five years. 😉 But I know you mean only software. The flip side of your argument is to ask why Apple shouldn't advance their OS for everyone whose machine supports it? I certainly don't want them to hold back their software to support older hardware.

I do believe that what we are seeing here is a consequence of the Intel > Apple Silicon transition. When we had nothing but Intel machines, we had OS supports for about 7 years. I think we will see the same thing with the Apple Silicon machines. Right now, it's an anomaly that some of the more recent Intel machines can't do everything the new Macs can.

 

[Cide]

I would pay an extra price premium on top of what Apple already charges to have at least 10 year (but I dream of 15-25) year support or OS Upgrade paths.

It would be nice from this point forward in time, Where innovation and features are more regressive in their nature. Hardware is pretty mature, outside of architecture changes like Apple Silicon, we don't need to upgrade our hardware for most use cases anyway, Just developers (xcode, etc) and final cut/logic version upgrades force people onto the latest MacOS. I wish they didn't but that's just me.

I love my old Mid-2012 MacBook Pro Retina, Supported until 10.15 Catalina. (So 2020) thats 8 solid years of support! 10 if you consider recent security updates. And Promise has supported their Thunderbolt Pegasus storage device for 10 years as well. I think anything LESS than 10 years is wasteful at this premium market range, where products are expected to last an incredibly long amount of time. (And should.) For example, I would expect that a M2 MacBook Air would last 15 years at least hardware wise. But will software support it for that long? Maybe.

 

[astorre]

I would pay an extra price premium on top of what Apple already charges to have at least 10 year (but I dream of 15-25) year support or OS Upgrade paths.

15-25 years of support? Just think about what kind of computer you had 20 years ago and think if you could even install OS on that, not to mention run it, dont be silly

Only Microsoft made exception with rare patch for 20 year old Windows XP because of ransomware exploits and because apparently half of the worlds governments still run on Windows XP

 

[Sterkenburg]

I do think the pruning in Ventura was much more aggressive than usual (and arbitrary: why should a 2017 MBP be supported and a 2016 not supported when the hardware is almost identical?) due to the push to move to Apple Silicon. Might be an exception to the rule or not, we don't know.

At the moment we still have no idea about the long-term support roadmap for the new M-series machines, so all we can do is speculate, but I do hope they will be actively supported for a little more than 5 years.

 

[Fishrrman]

"Why spend $2,500+ for only in 5 years of OS support?"

Because after 5 years the Mac doesn't stop running.

In this household, there are 2 2010-vintage MacBooks (both still run), and a 2012 Mini (still runs), and a 2015 MacBook Pro (still runs). Even though the OS's are older, they still do well enough.

I care NOT AT ALL as to whether Apple "still supports" my Macs.
I DO CARE that they still boot and run, and run the software I need to use.

 

[macsound1]

You don’t need Apple to “support” your Mac to keep using it.
In my line of work, doing updates is a huge headache due to the amount of testing required to ensure all the hardware and software will continue being compatible.
So we just finally did a huge sweep to upgrade to Catalina, which Apple is still offering security updates for.

What is important to do when you have older hardware, is once your configuration is solid, do a CCC backup and put it in a drawer. Then if anything ever happened, you could restore to something useful instead of starting from scratch. This is also separate from an online backup- something that runs regularly with a drive that’s always connected to the Mac. Things like ransomware can affect drives that are constantly doing incremental backups, where that backup in the drawer is safe.

 

[hovscorpion12]

With proper care of the hardware, a Laptop will last up to 10 years or more. longer if using an external SSD.

Software support will always be short lived as tech specs change multiple times a year

its more about how secure the OS gets after Software support ends

 

[BeatCrazy]

After check the supported Macs on Ventura, it only support MacBook Pros (2017 and newer), so if you have a 6 year old Macbook Pro, Apple fools you, blocking that you install Ventura.

So! I'm planning replace my great macbook pro 15 late 2013 (Big Sur, last supported OS) 9 years machine (around 7 years of OS installs) to a new MacbookPro for $2500+, but based on Ventura means that Apple will only give me 5 years to get the lasted OS's.

It seems Apple everyday short the time of support the latest OS to force people to buy new computers.

I bet the MBP can works for many more years than just five, but without getting the latest OS's, what's the point?

Yes, yes... I know Apple possibly will continue give security updates on the future old OS, but come on! I want the latest thing.

Your concern has a single protagonist - Intel. Now that we've transitioned to Apple Silicon, Mac support should be expected at 8-10 years.

 

[Slartibart]

Your concern has a single protagonist - Intel. Now that we've transitioned to Apple Silicon, Mac support should be expected at 8-10 years.

I am intrigued- what’s the base for your guess? 🤓

EDIT: the start of this thread by the OP is a very nice example for a non sequitur - how is the selling price of a device related to years of OS support?

 

[fakestrawberryflavor]

I have not and will not keep any computer this long. So I’m not even sure it is relevant to some of us. Buy the specs you need now, sell it in 2 years for something, buy a new one with specs you need then. Has been my model since about 2008.

If you can’t do this financially which is understandable, it’s not like the machine turns itself off after 5 years and it’s unusable. You can still use it.

 

[BeatCrazy]

I am intrigued- what’s the base for your guess? 🤓

Apple supports iOS devices for ~7 years, and as a general rule, they've support Macs for longer than any given iPhone... so Apple Silicon Macs will probably get 9 years of support.

 

[svenmany]

My 2013 MacBook Pro is on Big Sur, the last supported OS for that machine. But, I just received a Big Sur patch from Apple. I think it was a week ago. I consider that to be OS support for my 9 year old computer, but maybe not as good as what the OP is looking for.

 

[Slartibart]

Apple supports iOS devices for ~7 years, and as a general rule, they've support Macs for longer than any given iPhone... so Apple Silicon Macs will probably get 9 years of support.

in relation to security updates and/or OS feature parity? - looking at what’s happening with ARM at the moment I doubt the latter. OS functionality updates will be for sure impacted e.g. by the availability of SVE2 etc..

 

[BeatCrazy]

in relation to security updates and/or OS feature parity? - looking at what’s happening with ARM at the moment I doubt the latter. OS functionality updates will be for sure impacted e.g. by the availability of SVE2 etc..

Feature parity, within reason. Just like we have with iOS. The absolute newest phones still get some hardware-specific features, but as a general rule you get 7 years of iOS support. With zero shackles from Intel, and considering people keep computers longer than phones, Apple will likely be motivated to provide 9 or so years of macOS feature support. Plus, it's big selling point to convert Windows users, especially since Microsoft severely restricted Windows 11 support to very new hardware.

 

[umbilical]

My 2013 MacBook Pro is on Big Sur, the last supported OS for that machine. But, I just received a Big Sur patch from Apple. I think it was a week ago. I consider that to be OS support for my 9 year old computer, but maybe not as good as what the OP is looking for.

Same here, I even see is possible update it to Monterrey with some unofficial patch or something and people report runs great and better than Big Sur, so that means this machines can run well the new OS but Apple block it to force people to buy new macs.

I do think the pruning in Ventura was much more aggressive than usual (and arbitrary: why should a 2017 MBP be supported and a 2016 not supported when the hardware is almost identical?) due to the push to move to Apple Silicon. Might be an exception to the rule or not, we don't know.

At the moment we still have no idea about the long-term support roadmap for the new M-series machines, so all we can do is speculate, but I do hope they will be actively supported for a little more than 5 years.

Good point! we'll see but 5 years only for that money is ridiculous.

 

[svenmany]

Same here, I even see is possible update it to Monterrey with some unofficial patch or something and people report runs great and better than Big Sur, so that means this machines can run well the new OS but Apple block it to force people to buy new macs.

I see it differently, but only slightly. There are probably technical reasons to not support older machines with a new OS. Apple could solve these kinds of issues, but choose not to because it's not in their financial interest. But, that financial interest calculation is a bit complicated.

 

[biffuz]

I have the same MBP and I'm kinda thinking of replacing it now... mostly because the battery is almost dead and the nvidia driver bug. I even installed Monterey on it. This thing outlived my expectactions.

We don't know the plans Apple has for long term support for its Silicon Macs, I'd say 7 years of major OS release and a few more of security patches. Intel ones are in a sad spot now, I believe Ventura is the last release for them, but it's not like Apple promised anything, and they'll probably get several years of security patches anyway.

But actually my MBP, while officially got 8 years of OSs, in practice got only 4 years of peaceful life, as the nvidia bug appeared in high sierra and Apple never fixed it - and I'm quite mad at Apple for this.

 

[Cide]

15-25 years of support? Just think about what kind of computer you had 20 years ago and think if you could even install OS on that, not to mention run it, dont be silly

Only Microsoft made exception with rare patch for 20 year old Windows XP because of ransomware exploits and because apparently half of the worlds governments still run on Windows XP

I am not being silly, I am being realistic. Computers in 20 years aren't going to suddenly have UI's that pop out in your faces AR or something like that, and when they do, we will still be using these type of UI's to build that so why not have one that has a clear and valid security upgrade path to the latest release, Over that time. Why pay for a MacBook M2 Air if you aren't going to be using it for 15 years solid.

It just doesn't add up, the environment and drain on resources, will soon be felt. Prices could skyrocket and people will WANT to maintain the same hardware or heavily customized MacOS. (Or not.) I am thinking far into the future, but still.
My 20 year old computer was Windows XP,
It fine for its time but not something I would want to use today, But in all practicality I could if I needed to. I know a music producer or two who still uses that Dongle-less version of Cubase or Nuendo 3.2 to produce world-class music on a Native XP notebook. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Komor
For example.

What are you going to do when the costs of the aluminum for MacBook goes up to the moon, Will they make them plastic or glass? Obviously, I'd still be buying such a quality engineered machine, But on the condition I could pass it down to my children, if I wanted to. I still have a silver barometer from the early 1900's which works wonderfully. I am now comparing apples to oranges but I wanted to my point clear. Someone from 100 years from now should have an upgrade path, why shouldn't they? We are producing a future of technological inoperability, that's bound to be thick with Virtualization to get any result, and there may not be a virtualization situation anytime soon that allows for people to load up a complex final cut or logic project file and resume work far in the future.

Having everyone on the same Foundation for so long would lead us on a great deal in the direction of better machine learning and AI tools, Music production, Video even. Best practices come to mind, and such can be followed in a long-term operating system. Anyone who could solve this problem for the future would be an instant Elon Musk. In my books, anyways. I could be wrong but I'm trying to see the world from a non-individual perspective, over longer periods of time than we are used to dealing with in the technology refresh era.

I may just be old, and tired of upgrading and losing all my productivity, and sweet stuff.

 

[chikorita157]

After check the supported Macs on Ventura, it only support MacBook Pros (2017 and newer), so if you have a 6 year old Macbook Pro, Apple fools you, blocking that you install Ventura.

So! I'm planning replace my great macbook pro 15 late 2013 (Big Sur, last supported OS) 9 years machine (around 7 years of OS installs) to a new MacbookPro for $2500+, but based on Ventura means that Apple will only give me 5 years to get the lasted OS's.

It seems Apple everyday short the time of support the latest OS to force people to buy new computers.

I bet the MBP can works for many more years than just five, but without getting the latest OS's, what's the point?

Yes, yes... I know Apple possibly will continue give security updates on the future old OS, but come on! I want the latest thing.

I highly doubt Apple Silicon Macs will receive only receive 5 years of support. The only reason the recent Intel Macs has their support cut is that Apple wants to be finished with Intel. Like other says, Apple Silicon Macs will most likely have a longer life span since it's their own silicon after all.

 

[svenmany]

I am not being silly, I am being realistic. Computers in 20 years aren't going to suddenly have UI's that pop out in your faces AR or something like that, we will still be using these type of UI's so why not have one that has a clear and valid security upgrade path to the latest release, Over that time. Why pay for a MacBook M2 Air if you aren't going to be using it for 15 years solid.

It just doesn't add up, the environment and drain on resources, will soon be felt. Prices could skyrocket and people will WANT to maintain the same hardware or heavily customized MacOS. (Or not.) I am thinking far into the future, but still.
My 20 year old computer was Windows XP,
It fine for its time but not something I would want to use today, But in all practicality I could if I needed to.

What are you going to do when the costs of the aluminum for MacBook goes up to the moon, Will they make them plastic or glass? Obviously, I'd still be buying such a quality engineered machine, But on the condition I could pass it down to my children, if I wanted to. I still have a silver barometer from the early 1900's which works wonderfully. I am now comparing apples to oranges but I wanted to my point clear. Someone from 100 years from now should have an upgrade path, why shouldn't they?

The amount of waste we accept as a species is unsustainable. But, I tried to use a 17 year old iMac recently; it was unusable for almost anything. Even browsing the web was be too dangerous given the age of the browsers that could run on it. Certainly the Javascript code on the few websites I visited didn't work at all.

So, you might be saying that Apple should be responsible for keeping the browser updated on a 20 year old computer. I'll have to think very hard about the ethics of that to decide if I agree. It would purely be a charity move on Apple's part. They would be spending a lot of money to help a vanishingly small number of people.

You might be saying that all of those people are just running the terminal. For that, you probably wouldn't need updates from Apple

I guess I'm not clear on what kind of updates you would expect from Apple for a 20 year old computer.

There's an environmental cost to everything. I have a feeling that altering the tech industry to consistently maintain 20 year old computers would be more environmentally costly than effective electronics recycling. But, in the end of the day, someone's going to have to crunch the numbers to see if my intuition is correct.

Finally, we really would have to dump capitalism to force companies to spend money and get almost nothing back. All they'd get would be good will from a few people.

 

[ondioline]

A 20 year old Apple computer would still be PPC. It’s frankly an absurdist argument.

 

[ondioline]

There are people literally on this forum who try and use G5 PowerMacs, why don’t you go see how the experience is yourself? It’s not some mystery lol

 

[Aoligei]

A 20 year old Apple computer would still be PPC. It’s frankly an absurdist argument.

My 2006 Acer laptop is closing to be 20 years old laptop, it still runs Linux just fine. It has 2GB DDR and 120GB original IDE hard drive.

We need company to support old platform much longer than 5 years or 10 years. A decade old laptop is still capable to do most of basic computer things. I am typing this on a 2011 MacBook Pro which I got for like 100 dollars and using Monterey Patcher.

I would say, Microsoft does good job support Windows for long period of time, thus Windows PC will have much longer software support than Mac would. The very fact that my old ThinkPad T430s with Intel Haswell Processor still receiving Windows 10 updates and will continue to be supported until 2025 is great. Where same period of Macs are stuck with Catalina with no hope for future software update is sad. You bet if Apple support Macs longer people will keep their Mac longer and thus less computer goes to landfill.

 

[Aoligei]

I highly doubt Apple Silicon Macs will receive only receive 5 years of support. The only reason the recent Intel Macs has their support cut is that Apple wants to be finished with Intel. Like other says, Apple Silicon Macs will most likely have a longer life span since it's their own silicon after all.

I DO NOT know how long will Apple Silicon Mac be supported, only time will tell. But if we use iPhone as reference, the longest supported iPhone is iPhone 6, which run from iOS 8 to iPhone 15, which is 7 years of support. While majority of other iPhone has around 5-6 years support. So we can safely assume 5-6 years of support and I won't hold my breath.

Hopefully by the time M1 become unsupported, alternative OS will be available.