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Why the @#%$ do Macs still cost more?

Thank Jobs for shelf life

Yeah, I like to fire up my old 7600 with a G3 400 upgrade every now and then. It just reminds me that I won't have to be buying a new desktop or laptop every year or two, and I hope Apple doesn't move to that kind of marketing strategy. The hardware is sooooo much better, and it's tested to work. Smaller selection of hardware vendors but the overall user experience is years ahead of windows.

Since 2000, I've gone through 6 Windows laptops including Vaio's, Dell's and Compaq's, and I've only had to upgrade a few things on my macs including the 2 ibooks (g3 500 and g4 800). I still can't get rid of my 1ghz upgraded sawtooth although those G5's look sweet! Anyone wanna lend me a few grand?
 
I also want to add the PowerBook is ancient old. No idea how old the Toshiba you're talking about is, but I suspect it's a newer machine (considering it has a 6600 Go).

If the next generation of PowerBooks came out today, I'd expect to be more on par with the PC offering for the same price and probably even surpass it(minus the PVR ability and other niche features, assuming there's more to the rumors than minor processor speed bumps. But really, all that instant CD playing, dual layer burner, and PVR is great on paper and may justifies costs, but doesn't aren't features ready for the regular consumer quite yet.)

And, people, stop brining up the educational discounts. Not everybody is a student.
 
superfula said:
You need to stop looking at the stats of each computer. Any company can throw components into a computer and put a cheap tag on it. It's no different with Powermacs. The build quality is heads and tails better than any pc manufacturer.
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Better than some PC manufacturers, not all ;)
 
Depending on your frame of reference ...
Mac can cost more (or less) than PCs.
If the value of your time is zero, then Macs cost more.
If you factor in maintenance from a company perspective, then Macs cost less.
If you prefer less aggravation, then Macs cost less (factoring in psychologist fees :) )

My time is valuable to me so ... in my opinion Macs are lower cost.
Less time fighting with a computer, more time having a cold beer :D
 
I've had my PowerMac all for two days and I wouldn't trade it for anything I've EVER had in the PC world the past 10 years. Sure, specs wise, PC's are great. You can get bigger hard drives, faster processors with the new X2 out, and practically all hardware specs. BUT, Mac's are perfectly engineered. You get the best in design and the best on the interior. And they work even better. Tiger is the best OS ever invented. Things are so easily done on a Mac. It's ridiculous. Instead of messing with spyware slowing down your PC, you are actually enjoying your computer. It's great. To uninstall a program, you drag it in the trash. That's it. I can go on and on, but I'd rather enjoy my mac
 
How does Media Center XP compare to OSX + iLife? I'm honestly curious about this.

I don't want to remember my times of audio editing without garageband, since there is so much to remember. I need to free my brain capacity. M)
 
Media Center XP

Tahko said:
How does Media Center XP compare to OSX + iLife? I'm honestly curious about this.

I don't want to remember my times of audio editing without garageband, since there is so much to remember. I need to free my brain capacity. M)
Click to expand...

I run a Media Center 2005 setup at home. MCE 2005 is perhaps the best media app and front end for XP that MS has made (although they claim it is an integrated OS).

MCE is a nice alternative to a TIVO or PVR and once you have an MCE box, you dont ever have to pay for tv guide or cable company PVR fees. It also has some nice features like video rentals on demand, built in Napster support (for those who like to rent their music), good music visualizations, and an interface that's a lot nicer than Media Player 10's. Finding music is similar to spotlight using partial searches on the fly (Brilliant how MS could be better by learning from Apple).

If you have an xbox, you can wirelessly link your xbox and mce pc throughout your home to stream and record live tv as well as play your tunes, etc. My pictures in MCE has no where near the functionality of IPhoto, etc. MCE does not come with an equivalent of GarageBand.

The MCE remote is also nice...you can pretty much operate your whole media center using a tv like remote.

OSX + Ilife and MCE 2005 are different beasts. While you get a full OS with each, MCE 2005 is more geared toward a limited but unified user experience similar to the interaction and functionality of using a tv. It's basically a media center + tv (that occassionally crashes).
 
FFTT said:
If the machine you buy today will cover your needs for 3-4 years, then you've done well.
Click to expand...
Good point and exactly what I do when buying a computer.
 
AlbinoPigeon said:
A new Toshiba Qosmio F20-GS1 ($2499.99 CAN) which features:
-Intel Pentium M 750 (Centrino 1.86 GHz)
-15.4" display
-100GB HD
-Dual Layer DVD Burner
-128MB Nvidia GeForse Go 6600 Graphics Card
-PCI Express
-Windows XP Media Centre (I include this because it comes with extra features and hardware over the regular XP OS)

A new Powerbook G4 15" (2499.99 CAN) which features:
-G4 Processor @ 1.5GHz (similar enough to the Qosmio)
-15.4" display (same)
-80GB HD (20 GB LESS)
-Combo Drive (NO DVD BURNER)
-64MB ATI Mobility Radeon (50% LESS MB)
Click to expand...
You're completely ignoring stuff like iLife '05, which is pretty unique. You can find a set of apps on Windows to do what iLife does, but none of them are integrated, really, and they're all a pain to use.

There are also features in OS X that Windows XP simply doesn't have (yet?).
 
I bought my Macs just because they look good.

I mean who cares about the cost - really?

Had nothing to do with the lack of viruses, spyware and adware, nothing to do with the stability of OS X, nothing to do with the enhanced productivity I enjoy for my business (not having to run virus scans, constant pesky bubbles popping up telling me to update this or that, or other parts of the OS interupting my work), nothing to do with the pleasure of looking at and using a beautiful piece of machinery and nothing to do with Spotlight, Dashboard, iLife or iPod.

I just got them cuz they are kewl. :rolleyes:
 
When i switched, just before i priced up a PC for simular money to see what i could get, just to see - was from DELL (just because i happened to think of them at the time) actually.

I priced up a Dell System as close to the PowerMac i bought as i could. I got a 2.3Ghz DP/1.5gb RAM/6800gt and a 20" display.

With the 20" Dell Display (widescreen too) and a Dual-Core Pentium (to best aproximate the dual cpu pm) the Dell had 512Mb more RAM and i believe had a RAID config (160x2) but priced up only around £100-£200 less expensive than the PowerMac.

3.2Ghz Dual Core Pentium vs 2.3Ghz Dual CPU G5... simular money. I don't now maybe the 3.2 stomps allover it - but for the extra couple of hundred you got a heck of a lot better build quality than the DELL would have had. No tacky plastic (all ALU), an amazing looking system (cant fault the design) and OS X.

In that instance the prices were more simular than i first thought. :) I'm sure you could get more if you built it yourself (which is what i do...did..) but from what ive seen investing in a PowerMac will get you a lot more of your money back later than spending the same cash on a PC which seems to decrease in value to nothing as soon as you take it out of the box :cool:
 
One area where most people havn't noticed is the amount of companys who make computers.

Im a huge Apple fan but when you look at it like this:

Companys that make Apple computers 1
Companys that make Windows computers lots andlotsandlotsandlots etc.

So while Apple might bring in a new machine, say tomorrow, and it will stomp the competiotion into the ground, the week after Dell have there new machine, then IBM, then Hewlett Packard and then a million other laptops from lesser companys.

Soif you want the latest, most powerful computer then of course Apple would get a look in, but soon the Wintel world will answer back and Apple will lose their crown.

But as they say, the cutting edge will bleed you dry, and people still want their PB's, millions each year.
 
geese said:
Analogy flaw: Bentleys cost more because they use the greatest engines, greatest cabin materials, and are hand built to perfection. That s why they are great. A ford Taurus is all factory built using an inferior engine, inferior cabin material and so on, hence it being cheaper.

Compare Mac hardware to PC: Beneath the superior skin, its still using the same parts as its PC cousins do. And they are not the greatest.

I guess its worth paying extra for the OS X advantage, and the the superior design, but 30% mark-up? Thats a wee bit unfair.
Click to expand...

OS X and iLife. Do PCs come with an equivalent to iLife for free?

A fairer comparison might be Taurus vs. BMW/Mercedes/Lexus. You're paying for premium design and workmanship. Some of the parts may be, fundamentaly, the same, but they're put together better and made to work well together.
 
This is such a pointless age-old discussion. Think of it like this: You're feeling horny and because your a computer geek you don't have a girlfriend, so you go out in search of love. Do you pick the lady in tack which costs $20 for a bit of fun? Or do you pay $30 to really get you going with the hot one??

Ok, perhaps a bit derogatory to women there but one gets the gist! People buy what they prefer.

There are a million and one reasons why I just couldn't use PCs full time. Just using my XP laptop gives me headaches - I mean, it's running XP Pro with SP2 and still has a hard time managing Wireless networks. Everytime you turn it on there's another icon in the task bar, applications open then close, even poor-ol firefox doesn't seem to like being on a PC - you can feel it itch. You then get annoying messages which SLOW your computer down on start up, e.g. "There are icons on your desktop which you haven't used in a while, do you want Windows to manage them?" (No thanks, I'm capable of doing that myself). Have you ever tried running S-Video off XP? If your computer didn't come with the drivers pre installed then you've got to go hunt them down, and if they're more than a year old you wont find them. Then if you do get it to work, you have to restart the computer with the s-video plugged into the machine + tv just so it can recognise it. Look I could go on forever. I've used PCs all my life and I'm an abuser not a user. I know my stuff on both platforms.

With the mac you get your pleasant dong at startup to tell you everything is going to be ok. You get a bootup which is clean, no unresponsive start menu while windows is launching Printer Queue 1, 2, 3 and 4; MSN Messenger; Windows Messenger; MS Office Assistant; MS Works Suite; Outlook express mail retriever; the list goes on. You get a system which you can tell has been designed around the user. With every upgrade (panther->tiger, etc) you can SEE Apple has been reading forums to see what the people want. You get applications which run for hours on end without crashing (I'm not going to deny that there are some crashes, but just try windows!). You get quality FREE applications which come with your mac. Again, there is way too much to explain in all why OS X is better than XP.

When it comes down to price I know why I want to pay more for my macs. Apple are one of the biggest R&D (Research & Dev) companies in the US. They put a huge percentage of profit back into making good computers. I'd like to see Dell invent something wow. Dell takes components and shoves them together. No innovation. Apple spends hours looking at how people use computers (even something as trivial as the backlit keyboard helps people), they use their money wisely (only have to look at the iPod dev team + the now iPod nano). Have you tried a recent Apple laptop.. the trackpad is designed for use.. the two finger scroll thing is simple yet so effective (it's even got my mum doing it on our XP laptop! "ROB! The computer's not working!" she shouts, not realizing she's on the PC). I pay more for laptops because i hold my iBook in one hand and type with the other while I'm moving. It's light enough, sturdy enough. There's nothing intrusive about macs, all your data is safe even from Apple. You have perfect shape, no "media player" buttons scattered around. You just have a compact laptop which works. Simple.

I can't praise Apple enough. Yes they're machines are expensive. But no one is forcing you to buy one. Its as if your envious of your PC friends because they're paying less, when really your not thinking of what you've got. I'll never switch back.
 
iGary said:
LOL - You'll run hacked software on a machine just to save some money...
Click to expand...

Yes, and? Are you surprised?

FFTT said:
I configured the following system @ $2279 USD
upgrading the RAM to 100 GB and upgrading the VRAM to 128MB
which works out to be $2677 CAD
Click to expand...
You can't just take the American prices and convert it to Canadian dollars directly. You Americans get a great price while the rest of us get something else. It's like petrol prices. Go to the Canadian site and try configuring your system there.

Sorry no dual layer burners yet, but
most people won't need dual layer burning capabilites
and the blanks are expensive.
Click to expand...
That's just a bad way to justify a lack of features. If you had it, you wouldn't be telling people how your computer is capable of too much.

wako said:
Mac cost more because mac is simply a hardware based company, specializing in what they build. Its a boutique :)
Click to expand...

And a monopoly. ;)


Listen, I'm a Mac user, through and through. I love Macs, and I'll continue to support the company with its software efforts by buying Apple hardware. As long as they provide the OS and a (somewhat) complete software package, I'll buy Macs even when hacks become available for OSX becomes available for installation on other computers, which is inevitable. However, that doesn't mean that I don't feel like a bit of a sucker buying outdated hardware while a bunch of others here try to justify it by saying "you're paying for the looks.....the engineering." We use many of the same parts, and we will have access to the same hardware very soon.

It's going to be very hard for Apple to hide their huge profit margins when the switch to Intel is complete. Right now, they're hiding behind the myth of PowerPC (or anything non-Intel and non-AMD) processors, which just confuses the hell out of the average consumer. The average joe justifies his Mac purchase because he's buying a "niche" product that he doesn't need to fully understand (ie: G4, G5, PowerPC, iLife...). All he was told by the salesman is that a 1.33GHz G4 performs as well as a 3 GHz P4, or some crap like that.
He understands "Intel Inside," Windows XP, Microsoft Office, and anything else the PC world advertises because he has heard of it.....it's still comfortable because it's familiar. Apple hides behind the lack of understanding of their product, as some people genuinely think that by buying a PowerBook for $1978, they're buying something that's equal in speed and performance to a PC laptop at the same price, which they obviously aren't.
Once the Intel switch is made, they can't hide behind it anymore, and I'm actually glad. ;) They can't say that their computers have a 2.4 GHz Intel Centrino that is faster than the 2.4GHz Centrino inside a Toshiba. Customers won't buy that.
 
Abstract said:
That's just a bad way to justify a lack of features. If you had it, you wouldn't be telling people how your computer is capable of too much.
Click to expand...

Actually i do that, my powermac has a dual layer dvd burner in it, and i have absolutely ZERO need for it, i tell people it has things that i will barely ever use if ever. So yes i do tell people my computer is capable of too much.

;)
 
I much prefer the analogy comparing a loaded GM vehicle
to a comparable Toyota.
Why does that 6 cylinder Toyota cost more than a loaded
GM V8?

The GM may have greater performance and all the bells and whistles, but that Toyota will generally still be running trouble free, with higher efficiency and better resale value for years to come.
 
My advice, shop around. If you can live without the latest and greatest you'll find Macs aren't that expensive. I bought my 12" PB 1.33ghz Combo for way less than that crappy Tosh.
 
First off, Apple pays more for its parts than PC makers.

Second, It is reported Jobs said, back in the 80's, when a employee in a board meeting asked the question: "How about a Mac computer under $1000?". Jobs said 'never'.

As we all know, there is one now, so not too sure where that stands....FWIW.
 
Quality

You are paying for a quality computer, a system that works and the experience of hassle free computing. What I have noticed is that PC users are always buying computers or parts to maintain their systems. I just don't get it, I for one just keep chugging along with my 6 yr old G3/300 B/W. Of course I have added more internal drives and filled the RAM slots up but have never had one problem (hardware or software). And this is a first generation B/W because it only has one internal 6GB HD and no provisions for additonal HD.
 
I agree that macs are overpriced.
But - I will keep paying these prices - 'cause one you go mac you'll never go back! :D

I would love to see the price go down, and publicly stating "hey I'll pay more than I really want to" won't help that effort, but it's true.

Apple has one of or the highest profit margin on their computers. And it's easy to question if they wanted to make money, why not lower your prices to expand your market share? I see Apple trying to answer that question with the mac mini - and the improvements to the ibook. But - I think (redict) if they continue to move in taht direction it will be slow and in response to more users wanting to move to OSX... no time to flesh this out so take it for what it's worth (less).
 
2 points

1- you get what you pay for

2- supply and demand. as wintel notebooks are sold in much larger numbers the components cost much less b/c of the large volume. so if you get 90% of laptop owners to purchase apple notebooks then the price would eventually drop b/c of the large volume.

not to mention most wintel laptops are just crap. (most, not all) they batteries last like 20 minutes b/c the processor is so inefficient (great apple good job at chosing intel! heh) so yeah, put out the extra cash for the PB it will deffinitly be worth it. (especially about a week after you buy a wintel machine and it is loaded with 900 spyware/viruses etc!!! (trust me, i work in the IT dept at my school and people come in and say "i just got this laptop a week ago and now the internet wont run and i have all of these pop ups")
 
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