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Why Valve games are not coming to Macs..

Sijmen

macrumors 6502a
Sep 7, 2005
709
1
While the article stated that Apple didn't do what they wanted them to, but it's too bad they didn't say what they actually asked Apple. I'm curious.
 
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phillipjfry

macrumors 6502a
Dec 12, 2006
847
1
Peace in Plainfield
While the article stated that Apple didn't do what they wanted them to, but it's too bad they didn't say what they actually asked Apple. I'm curious.

I'm sure it's a multi-years worth of mess dealing with a faceless company (eg. one where you can't really talk with anyone who can really push to make a difference). Regardless, the macs are becoming more popular and :apple: is going to have to seriously take a good look at their gaming side and try to help it mature a little more. Maybe we will see more games come out with Leopard/OpenGL2
 
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Nermal

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 7, 2002
18,999
1,469
New Zealand
Surely it should be up to the porting house to decide what's missing from OS X. Glenda (Aspyr) was saying that they sometimes have their developers go over to Apple and work with the OpenGL team to get things sorted out, and it seems to happen. I think MacSoft did the same; I seem to recall that one of the Panther updates was Halo-focussed.
 
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Blacky

macrumors member
Jun 27, 2007
45
40
I wonder what they asked apple and why they can't do what blizzard, epic and id software can.
 
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sikkinixx

macrumors 68020
Jul 10, 2005
2,062
0
Rocketing through the sky!
While I'm sure his reason is at least partially correct, the other half reason it isn't coming to Macs is because Gabe Newell is a whiny douchebag who needs to shut up and make his damn games instead of making everyone wait 2 years for "episodic content"....it's not episodic if you need to wait close to a full game dev cycle to play it (for 6 hours)
 
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Soulstorm

macrumors 68000
Feb 1, 2005
1,887
1
I'm sorry, but I just can't take that article seriously. Unreal engine 3 is coming to the mac, and they just say that Apple doesn't hear game devs? What about Aspyr, MacSoft and the other developers? What about EA with command & conquer, and Blizzard?

I'm pretty sure that they asked Apple to alter their OpenGL implementation so that it conforms more with the DirectX standards. And that's not going to happen since OpenGL has its own standards.

Oh, and... I think that now we can't complain about games with poor performance on the Mac OS X. I think that the latest games are all with good performance. So, I can't believe we are still hearing these crap from Valve. These are all lame excuses for not being able to port a game to OpenGL.
 
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In this article, http://games.kikizo.com/features/gabenewell_valve_iv_sep07_p1.asp, Gabe Newell talks about why it is not happening.

While I don't game on my Macs, I think Apple should definately listen to these developers. The programming techniques and accumulated knowleged from this will be good not only for games but running other process intensive applications as well.

Interesting link. I'm sure that a lot of other game developers feel the same way about Apple's lack of serious commitment towards expanding mainstream gaming on Macs, hence the lack of ports.

FWIW, unless things change in the near future with some positive announcements from Apple re gaming, my laptop Mac will soon be joined by a new desktop PC specifically for gaming. A Mac for serious stuff & a PC for gaming, increasingly looks like (for me at least) the only way to go!
 
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Dont Hurt Me

macrumors 603
Dec 21, 2002
6,055
6
Yahooville S.C.
Apple's history with gaming sucks turds, Apples history with videocards sucks and Apples history of playing nice with other companys sucks. Look at Bungie And Apple....they ignored them and Microstink well, the rest is Halo history. Apple has to pull its head out of its butt on gaming. Missing out on the HL2 sequels is Apple being stupid. Forest Gump said...stupid is as stupid does and Apples history with gaming is just stupid.
 
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IscariotJ

macrumors 6502a
Jan 13, 2004
636
63
UK
FWIW, unless things change in the near future with some positive announcements from Apple re gaming, my laptop Mac will soon be joined by a new desktop PC specifically for gaming. A Mac for serious stuff & a PC for gaming, increasingly looks like (for me at least) the only way to go!

My Mac is going to be joined by a(nother) console and a dedicated TV. I used to be a serious PC gamer, but tired of the time/expense wasted on the PC just to get it running games. With consoles getting more decent PC ports, and there being more console exclusive titles, it's just not worth the hassle to keep a PC.

If Valve want to ignore Macs, that's fine. I'll playing the Orange Box on consoles, and GoW/UT3 on my Mac.
 
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My Mac is going to be joined by a(nother) console and a dedicated TV. I used to be a serious PC gamer, but tired of the time/expense wasted on the PC just to get it running games. With consoles getting more decent PC ports, and there being more console exclusive titles, it's just not worth the hassle to keep a PC.

If Valve want to ignore Macs, that's fine. I'll playing the Orange Box on consoles, and GoW/UT3 on my Mac.

The problem with consoles (for some people) is that some great PC titles are unlikely to ever be ported to them, for eg. Medieval 2: TW. If you can happily live without the mixed-bag of games that only PCs can currently deliver, then I agree that a console is definitely the way to go.

But PC games tend to come down in price far quicker than with consoles (or the Mac platform). Also, all consoles have exclusives & to get all the best console-games out there you'd need Xbox 360, Wii & PS3. For my money, when it comes down to sheer choice, overall cost, fewest compromises, etc., a gaming PC wins every time.
 
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0098386

Suspended
Jan 18, 2005
21,574
2,908
It is a shame that Orange Box can't appear on Mac OS. I'm having such huge problems with XP that I'd give my left testicle to be able to play these games in a better OS.

It would be nice if Apple would get their arses in gear over gaming, and let the non-unlocking hackers have their fun with the iPhone. But that's another story!
 
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ReanimationLP

macrumors 68030
Jan 8, 2005
2,773
28
On the moon.
Probably a small part is due to the fact that Gabe Newell was a Microsoft employee, and made his millions that he used to start Valve there. ;)
 
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Krevnik

macrumors 68040
Sep 8, 2003
3,683
910
It is a shame that Orange Box can't appear on Mac OS. I'm having such huge problems with XP that I'd give my left testicle to be able to play these games in a better OS.

It would be nice if Apple would get their arses in gear over gaming, and let the non-unlocking hackers have their fun with the iPhone. But that's another story!

I am actually very curious what those three things were that Newell said that Apple was told. It is hard to say if Apple is or isn't listening if we are never told by the developers what was said.

From our viewpoint it becomes he-said/she-said, with our evidence for anything being the lack of games and nothing more.
 
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martychang

macrumors regular
Sep 3, 2007
191
0
Probably a small part is due to the fact that Gabe Newell was a Microsoft employee, and made his millions that he used to start Valve there. ;)

I doubt it personally. IIRC, Gabe basically said in a Game Informer interview that Vista should be totally scrapped, and they should get to work on a REAL update from XP. He's not a Microsoft choir member as far as I can tell.
 
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Wild-Bill

macrumors 68030
Jan 10, 2007
2,539
617
bleep
"OK, here are three things you could do to make that better", and then they say OK, and then we never see them again. And then a year later, a new group of people show up, who apparently have no idea that the last group of people were there, and never follow though on anything."

Sounds like the fruity folks to us - too busy drinking the Cappuccino to question the rule of El Jobs. We suspect that Newell is not happy with the level of hardware going into most new Macs - the iMacs, in particular, sport graphics cards that aren't really up to powering games at the kind of display sizes they ship with. Indeed, Apple's portable MacBook has Intel integrated graphics, which isnt up to much at all.

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/01/valve-sticks-boot-el-jobso

Yup.
 
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IscariotJ

macrumors 6502a
Jan 13, 2004
636
63
UK
The problem with consoles (for some people) is that some great PC titles are unlikely to ever be ported to them, for eg. Medieval 2: TW. If you can happily live without the mixed-bag of games that only PCs can currently deliver, then I agree that a console is definitely the way to go.

But PC games tend to come down in price far quicker than with consoles (or the Mac platform). Also, all consoles have exclusives & to get all the best console-games out there you'd need Xbox 360, Wii & PS3. For my money, when it comes down to sheer choice, overall cost, fewest compromises, etc., a gaming PC wins every time.

That used to be my view, until I worked out how much it cost to keep a decent gaming PC. I'll pick up a 360 shortly, and it will still be less than a decent video card. A PS3 will follow ( once there are some must-have games ), and will more than likely be cheaper than the next round of upgrades. The best thing? I'll be able to put the disc in, and It'll Just Work (tm) ;)

For PC only games? VMware ( Morrowind runs nicely ), or BootCamp for something that I *must* play ( though I can't think what that would be, atm ).

It's been an age ( post-WoW ) since I've bought any game on the day of release, console or PC. By the time I get round to them, there's always one retailer selling cheap.

Anyway, back OT. Reading the article, it sounds like Gabe has less idea about the Mac market than Apple do about making games. No gaming market? Really? I would suggest he has a conversation with the game devs that do make games for a Mac. Some of the biggest games have been available on a Mac ( Q3, UT, any Blizzard game ).

<Rant>The only thing I've seen holding Mac gaming, is the retailers trying to fleece Mac gamers by charging RRP; WoW was a prime example of this, retailers selling a Mac version for full price, and a PC version for half, when they are they same thing! It's even worse for older titles. I've just tried to pick up a copy of Mac Halo. £35, and the £3 for the UB vs £13 for a PC version ( that will run in a VM ). That's the real problem.</Rant>
 
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Lord Blackadder

macrumors G5
May 7, 2004
14,127
3,371
Sod off
It's all easy to sum up -

- Trailing edge GPUs that cost full MSRP 3 years after their introduction on the PC.

- Underdeveloped GPU drivers.

- Only a handful of new flagship games ported each year, made available months after the PC release.

- Little interest from Apple in working with software and hardware developers.

Apple is not interested in investing in the relationships with game developers...in fact Apple prefers to do everything in-house whenever possible (c.f. Aperture, Final Cut, Motion etc.). They only work with Adobe because they have to. This attitude is also reflected by their relationship with ATI & NVIDIA...

I would like to see Apple get serious about gaming, but I don't think it will happen until Apple has more market penetration and the pressure to develop the platform for gaming increases significantly.

For the moment, porting houses like Aspyr are the only ones taking gaming on the Mac seriously.
 
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Kosh66

macrumors 6502
Jul 15, 2004
467
0
Valve's got the gall to complain about Apple! :mad: LOL

You do know it was Valve that finished the port of Half-Life for the Mac and then decided not to release it because they would have to support it (as in they didn't want to support it). :mad:

Valve can go screw themselves!! Us Mac Gamers :apple: don't need them!!

I wouldn't buy a Valve product if it was the last game on Earth.
 
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applekid

macrumors 68020
Jul 3, 2003
2,097
0
Just remember this is the same company that didn't release the original Half Life on the Mac because they said keeping it updated and synched with the PC version would be too much work despite getting as far as a near-complete beta version.
 
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Small White Car

macrumors G4
Aug 29, 2006
10,926
1,236
Washington DC
It's all easy to sum up -

- Trailing edge GPUs that cost full MSRP 3 years after their introduction on the PC.

- Underdeveloped GPU drivers.

- Only a handful of new flagship games ported each year, made available months after the PC release.

- Little interest from Apple in working with software and hardware developers.

Apple is not interested in investing in the relationships with game developers...in fact Apple prefers to do everything in-house whenever possible (c.f. Aperture, Final Cut, Motion etc.). They only work with Adobe because they have to. This attitude is also reflected by their relationship with ATI & NVIDIA...

Tell me about it. I have a quad-core XEON MacPro with 512 MB of Video Memory. Right now I've got 2 things running through Rosetta.



I don't use Dreamweaver that much...no biggie. What's the one other PPC program I'm using? A video card monitor!

This has been Apple's top-of-the-line workstation for over a year now, and the stuff that runs and monitors the hardware STILL isn't 100% Universal by now? If there's a new version I certainly haven't been able to find it anywhere.

I think that's pretty indicative of Apple's malaise towards working with the main video-card companies in general. You're right, it's not a pretty picture.
 
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NewSc2

macrumors 65816
Jun 4, 2005
1,044
2
New York, NY
Valve's got the gall to complain about Apple! :mad: LOL

You do know it was Valve that finished the port of Half-Life for the Mac and then decided not to release it because they would have to support it (as in they didn't want to support it). :mad:

Valve can go screw themselves!! Us Mac Gamers :apple: don't need them!!

I wouldn't buy a Valve product if it was the last game on Earth.

Valve is the only gaming company that keeps my PC around.
 
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MrMacMan

macrumors 604
Jul 4, 2001
7,002
11
1 Block away from NYC.
I dunno about this article.

I understand the cutting edge gaming is only going to be for the Higher level mac computers, and that in itself is a reason but saying that they have talked to apple and apple never did anything seems to go against common thinking.

I mean apple pushed the deal with EA (even if the ports suck and don't function right), even tho Aspyr already did most of the ports for EA :rolleyes:, but I fail to see the the reason Apple wouldn't contact them back... Blizzard has been a loyal cross-platform company forever and they seem to be doing it fine...

For value trying to make stuff run on mac would have been a big chore for a company that hasn't done the platform and whose focus is for deadlines and quality.

I don't know about this interview...
 
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