Why Windows XP sucks.

[Toe]

Timelessblur, I have plenty of problems with Apple. But I thank anything that'll listen every day that I don't have to use Windows. I personally know several people who are intelligent and cautious, who have had Windows totally screw them over.

I've seen both Mac and Windows users screw themselves over, but with Windows, there are simply far, far, far, far more opportunities to screw up and/or for the OS to screw something up for you.

 

[efoto]

Agree with all of the above who say it is not that hard to keep your computer safe and sound, and it does not take a *complete dweeb* or whatever was said to do it.

First off, don't start with a computer that comes with shi* on it *cough Dell cough* or like systems. Now I will concede that building your own computer takes a certain level of dweebyness, but the chicks dig that right . I personally always use XP Pro and then just change a few things over in the registry and a few other various places to close up a few open doors. Its not a perfect OS by any means, and I have no doubt that OSX is better (although I lack broad experience with it) but a lot of the issues PC users have are just that, pc USER issues. PCs have more problems because more people use them, so duh, put an idiot on a Mac and I am sure he can screw it up somehow (I plan too once I purchase my first sometime soon ).

Ante up and take a little blame here. Like e said earlier, don't open crazed attachments from address you don't know, don't give in to "xxxx, you've one 1 million dollars, just click her and take this survey and thats it!".
Sure...you wanna win a million, go for it but don't bi**h that it was your PC's fault.

The not-so-rocketscience e mentioned above is just that, not-so-rocketsciency. If you find things difficult I am sure people would be willing to help but its not inherently the PCs fault. NAV Cp, SpyBot, AdAware...um I think that is all I use and I have been virus free for...evar. No crazy programs in the Task manager, etc. It doesn't take too long to figure out what is what and close what you don't want/use.

 

[rueyeet]

I just don't automatically blame a company becuase I had no idea what I was doing.....Granted they're OS is porous, but its not that bad if you know how to use it and protect yourself.

The problem, though, is that it takes so much more computer knowledge than most of Microsoft's users HAVE to properly use it and protect themselves. I'm not talking about you and me, here, I'm talking about the overwhelming percentage who don't know that IE is only one of many programs called "web browsers" and don't know the difference between memory and the hard drive. The ones who don't understand, and whose eyes glaze over if you try and explain it to them, exactly WHY not being able to turn off HTML in Outlook's preview pane is a bad thing. (And not having that simple option to increase the security of one's email, and instead having to alter how you use a program that is many people's daily bread and butter, is NOT Microsoft's fault?)

Add to that, that it's necessary to use a plethora of third-party programs to plug the holes that Microsoft has left: anti-virus, firewall, spyware blocker, adware blocker, pop-up blocker. How many people understand that EACH of those is necessary if you're going to use IE and Outlook on a Windows system, and understand that each one compensates for a DIFFERENT security problem? Less than you'd think, and even the few that do might not bother with them if they aren't free.

Why exactly does all of this onus have to fall on the user, especially when the user is probably not up to the task of doing it properly? And that 80-to-20 ratio, guess which number is more representative of the users that aren't? The problem isn't so much that the users have failed to properly administer their systems, as that Microsoft has left Windows so full of so many holes, that maintenance of a proper Windows installation is so complicated as to be literally out of the reach of the overwhelming percentage of computer users.

And how, exactly, is that NOT at least a little bit Microsoft's fault?

edesignuk, by your mention of NAV Corp. I take it that at least some of the admin tasks are being handled by your company; and your posts here show that you're fairly computer savvy. Those are two advantages that the vast majority of the computer-using public doesn't have. I've recommended non-IE web browsers to more than one person, only to have them ask what a brower is. I'm not kidding.

And efoto: If you can build your own systems and actually edit the Windows registry, chances are you could never understand the stunning lack of understanding that I'm trying to convey here in regards to most people and their computers.

 

[jeremy.king]

See above... MS software update and NAV update DO NOT give you all the latest updates. They just make you think you have them. Nice, eh?

Curious why you keep repeating this? Do you really have proof this is true, or are you just yelling FIRE in a crowded theater?

Even more curious is how is my system is up to date after checking both the Norton and Windows Update websites, when I only run LiveUpdate and let SP2 auto d/l and install patches???

 

[Timelessblur]

Timelessblur, I have plenty of problems with Apple. But I thank anything that'll listen every day that I don't have to use Windows. I personally know several people who are intelligent and cautious, who have had Windows totally screw them over.

I've seen both Mac and Windows users screw themselves over, but with Windows, there are simply far, far, far, far more opportunities to screw up and/or for the OS to screw something up for you.

Being intelligent and cautions and knowing how to computer are 2 very diffent things.

I have a few good friends who are intelligent and cautious but knowing how to keep there computer clean and working no they dont. It only works so far. it take some windows knowledge to keep a computer clean. My computer is extermly clean of spyware and virus. Uptodate and I know how to automatic a lot of maintaice so I dont have to speend hours a day keeping it that way.

I dont think you so call friends really know that much about windows XP since the people who do understand it dont really put up with that much and problems with the OS simple because we know how to use it

 

[Toe]

Curious why you keep repeating this? Do you really have proof this is true, or are you just yelling FIRE in a crowded theater?

I know from direct experience. Sometimes the updaters do not download the latest update. I've also seen this mentioned in Windows discussion forums.

But whatever... go ahead and use Windows. I don't care. But on that day when everything on your computer goes poof... don't say I didn't warn you.

You can say that won't happen... just like the MCSE's I know who said that about their machines... before it happened to them.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

I know from direct experience. Sometimes the updaters do not download the latest update. I've also seen this mentioned in Windows discussion forums.

But whatever... go ahead and use Windows. I don't care. But on that day when everything on your computer goes poof... don't say I didn't warn you.

You can say that won't happen... just like the MCSE's I know who said that about their machines... before it happened to them.

Well, at least I don't need to worry, since my Windows machine has no internet connection. I've been told that keeping a Windows machine offline permanently - especially an unprotected one - is the safest thing to do.

 

[Toe]

I dont think you so call friends really know that much about windows XP since the people who do understand it dont really put up with that much and problems with the OS simple because we know how to use it

Off-hand, I can think of two MCSEs and three people I'd consider computer savvy (they program in various languages, set up offices, stuff like that), who have been absolutely screwed by flaws in Windows. Usually on their personal computer which they go to great pains to protect.

As others have stated... most people who use computers are not computer whizes. Yet those who use Macs do not have to worry about all that virus, spyware, malware, defective-software, etc. crap and Windows users do. Period.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

Off-hand, I can think of two MCSEs and three people I'd consider computer savvy (they program in various languages, set up offices, stuff like that), who have been absolutely screwed by flaws in Windows. Usually on their personal computer which they go to great pains to protect.

As others have stated... most people who use computers are not computer whizes. Yet those who use Macs do not have to worry about all that virus, spyware, malware, defective-software, etc. crap and Windows users do. Period.

What about me, Toe? I have both a Mac and a Windows machine...but the Windows machine is permanently disconnected from the Internet. If I want to send something to my Windows machine, I just go online with my Mac, grab the file(s), then use Windows sharing to send them over. The Mac connects with AirPort wireless, and an Ethernet cable connects the Mac and PC. Internet connection sharing on the Mac is turned off.

 

[Timelessblur]

Off-hand, I can think of two MCSEs and three people I'd consider computer savvy (they program in various languages, set up offices, stuff like that), who have been absolutely screwed by flaws in Windows. Usually on their personal computer which they go to great pains to protect.

As others have stated... most people who use computers are not computer whizes. Yet those who use Macs do not have to worry about all that virus, spyware, malware, defective-software, etc. crap and Windows users do. Period.

again I repeat my statement. One of my best friends he can program like no one buniness but when it came to keep the comptuer clean he had a lot of problems. I showed him a free tricks mind you it was easy for him to pick up since he understand computers. Some how I dont buy you example. 95% of the problems i run to on windows is pretty much my own fault because I know what part of the OS I was messing around in and I know messing aroundi nthose areas can cause problems

Oh and lastly we got the point you are a Zelot who really dont know any real facts. Zelot are the worse to put up with

 

[Pixeled_Apple]

Frankly, I hate xp, my friends agree; e"xp"erience the best is now the oppisite, coz there are more better OSes , and Mac OS X will show where window$ goes. Its the most contimated OS in the Digital World. Viruses, Spyware, Malware... you name it, is MOSTLY on Windoze. Mac OS, UNIX, Linux might not be immune to sercurity threats (BeOS might ) but its certainly doesn't have that many. I read in the Front Page or somewhere that 60 viruses target mac, but 60,000 target $ windoze $ .

Many mission-critical stuff, use UNIX, Solaris, Sun Microsystems (as they computer) there can't be stuck with Windows errors saying "Windows has encounted a error, Sorry for the inconvience" "Windows is like for people who are new to computers and want basic functions, but people who want learn in-depth in Information Technology use Mac OS or something else than windows." Thats what I think.

 

[jackieonasses]

Many mission-critical stuff, use UNIX, Solaris, Sun Microsystems (as they computer) there can't be stuck with Windows errors saying "Windows has encounted a error, Sorry for the inconvience" "Windows is like for people who are new to computers and want basic functions, but people who want learn in-depth in Information Technology use Mac OS or something else than windows." Thats what I think.

Why did you keep using quotations? Did you get that from somewhere else?



{edit} i will just voice my opinion, In all actuality, Windows is NOT that bad. There are holes, but ultimatly it is up to the user. Some people here say that you have to be an idiot to use windows, which is ridiculous. Just be safe, Keep it offline (i like windows in that case) or just buy a mac. But soon enough Macs will have virii also. Once there 7% - or so - market share gets larger, the virii gap will close. Sure,there will never be as many (due to the Unix nature) but still enough.

 

[patrick0brien]

hmmm looks like we have a Mac zelot who refuses to believe that it the user fault. For a HOME computer 24 hours is not a very long time. a week is starting to push it. That being said you acting like Apple is perfic. I think Zelots are worse than the trolls. most of the time trolls at least know somewhatly what they are talking about Zelots well they are idoits who know noughting

-Timelessblur

Perhaps, but then that's a difficult accusation to make without labeling yourself. We're all pretty smart guys here - clearly we have enough time to read and post - we can come to our own conclusions.

And be careful with those accusations, it's not very constructive. By using the incredubly strong language of someone 'not having facts' and not backing it up with examples, is in itself, silly. I'd suggest not even going there.

There is a nit I feel I need to pic with your conclusion however. This subject is not entirely the fault of the user nor MS, so placing complete blame is not possible. However the responsibility does reside somewhere...

 

[Yotabyte]

While a true assessment of Windows' vulnerabilities, you have to take on some level of responsibility. These viruses don't just automatically appear for no reason.

You need to keep your system up-to-date with service packs and be responsible with opening of email attachments. Even further, you shouldn't use the preview window in Outlook (if possible, don't use Outlook or OE at all) and you should disable opening of HTML based emails. You should double check your virus scanning settings. Does it scan all incoming emails? Are you sure? Most of today's viruses spread using known (and patched) exploits.

I agree that Microsoft is partly to blame with all the holes left in their software programs, but if you are going to be a Windows user, you need to know how to change your ways. Running a virus scanner and firewall doesn't make any system invincible. It sort of like blaming a car manufacturer for your dead car at 80,000 miles when you don't do any preventative maintenance.

For kicks, I am curious which 4 viruses turned up on your system? A quick lookup on your favorite virus defs website will show how you transmitted it and where you are lacking protection.

With all that said, I am still a happy Mac user

I'l tell you the story. Well, I really don't use this computer that much any more as I have my other PC desktop at another house that I use frequently and I pretty much keep that one secure and it's never really had a virus problem. This one on the other hand, does, and only has started like this yesterday. Norton detected a virus, but then could't remove it and so kept spamming me with the virus detected window. Joy I thought, I will just do a system scan now. In the process it found some more, viruses on windows are like XP service packs generally they actually improve performance so that is why they went un-noticed, unless they all came in at the same time. One of them was not a virus it was a trojan, I forgot the name. It had a keylogger, slowed down my typing to baby-crawl, and even had an RPC exploit (either that or one of the other... infections did) which I thought was fixed in SP1! Apparently not. So I did the usual DOS command to stop the shutdown occuring, and re-started PC in safe mode and did a full system scan. This allegedly did it, but I am still getting the occasional norton warning about viruses on the system.

If this continues, I will probably just format and reinstall windows. i've got a Knoppix CD here incase the PC becomes totally unuseable and a nice copy of Mandrake 10 here if I really get teed off at old Windows.

Bah.

 

[Yotabyte]

Okay, now that i've read a bit more of the topic I will make another reply!

I blame Microsoft as it's fun. Of course Windows is targeted, still most of the computers on this planet that are connected by the net or otherwise to each other are windows and as a result virus coders are hitting the most people at one time. If it was reversed, apple was the world's largest provider of computer software, we'd see about the same amount of viruses written for apple. I think it's good that Microsoft is the target for all of these viruses, trojans, worms, spyware etc, it means that the Mac users use Windows as a sacrificial anode, its a method of Mac virus protection!

Now I shall continue. I've never on the computer (PC) that I use for most of my day to day work have ever gotten a virus on it. Others have for me, but never me. I never open an email attachment unless I requested it, regardless of who it is from. I run Ad-aware and Spybot S&D often (mainly adaware) and that takes care of MOST of my spyware problems (I had a problem receintly with some really HK spyware, and actually got the removal software from their own website as Ad-aware, Spybot, and a few others that I tried out of desperation, plus my bltizkreig in the registry, didn't kill it. But besides that, I keep windows pretty well maintained. I don't patch every security problem, but I do most. I use Norton Utilities to keep windows working at peak efficiency (i recommend this program for any windows user) and I use a hardware firewall (thanks router!) which I keep the firmware updated and the settings pretty tight and it keeps me safe.

Back to emails, the only ones I ever even LOOK at on my comp have been scanned by NAV. On MSN, every attachment I recieve is scanned by NAV. I try my hardest to keep viruses and other forms of spyware and malware off my PC and it works most of the time, but for THIS PC, I don't, and I can see now why people who don't really protect themselves are hit bad. All I have to say is that as long as Microsoft has primacy of the Systems Software in the world, my PC will never be perfectly safe.

 

[angelneo]

Oh and lastly we got the point you are a Zelot who really dont know any real facts. Zelot are the worse to put up with

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and we can debate about it back and forth constructively, but I think we shouldn't start calling each other names.

 

[russed]

i would like to add something here that i dont think has been added previously.

in my opinion about 70% of the windows users will know nothing more than how to turn the dammed thing on, write a letter, do a bit on the internet and email and nothing else. these are the people that need to be protected and in my opinion microsoft dont do it.

the likes of windows update and things like that will be unknown to most and although people say its easy to keep up to date etc the majority will never use it. an example of this. i live in a house with 4 more people, all who are on windows. they are not thick by any means and they can 'use' a computer but not one of them know anything about anti virus, anti-spyware, windows update etc. i bet if they did even put antivirus on, they would just think they were protected. i had to take in on myself to get them uptodate (someone was even on pre sp1 xp!) put htem on to firefox, thunderbird, get them on av, anti spyware etc.

the point is here. yes it is pretty simple to keep a windows box relatively free from virii etc but this is still beyond most either because they dont care, dont know, are unable to do or dont want the hassle. you should be free to do what you want on your computer, but if you do this on xp, you will prob end up with a box that will be running at snails pace within a month and riddle is spyware and virii. so in this case, xp falls a long way short of a good os.

 

[dual64bit]

Mass Imaging in Computer Labs

Windows XP sucks because...

Service pack 2 completely screws over SysPrep and any other native built-in windows imaging tools. I've never seen such a mess of a product.

My friend has the 14day trial developmental release of longhorn. Talk about a joke, nothing is 64bit, the file structure is the same. Has microsoft gone off the deep end?

 

[kainjow]

The main that I think that makes Windows suck is its attempts to be backward compatible. This means Microsoft isn't using the latest and great code, and is relying on old, buggy code.

Also, it doesn't take a lot to keep Windows virus and spyware free. Just use Firefox instead of IE, block your pop ups, read your messages boxes and don't OK everything you see, run virus protection frequently, and use firewalls when possible.

If you have a virus or spyware that you can't remove or your apps can't remove, but you know where it is, simply boot into Safe Mode and delete it from there, once you give yourself permission to do so.

My friend's PC was really screwed over for a while, but my other friend and I simply ran a few utilties, and did some Safe Mode booting to get rid of protected files, and it's all good now. We didn't need to reinstall Windows or anything like that, which most people do because they think it's the only way to clean it.

The facts are, Windows takes more time to keep clean, while the Mac takes close to nothing. To safely use a Windows machine, you have to be educated about it, which people don't want to be. To use a Mac, you juse it use, and it's safe (for now).

 

[Makyz]

Everyone are a product of their different experiences:

for me my Mac hard drive corrupted 3 times and kernel panics all over the place, I replaced my hard drive and I had few problems since then. I have run into compatibility issues with my university software using Macs, and some accounting software that was simply not available for Macs.

on my windows box, my harddrive never corrupted, and because i kept my system updated and norton running- i never had a problem with virii or spyware. On my pc I can do almost anything without restriction.

Do I hate Macs? No i really like my 12inch powerbook, and my athlon box equally.

And thanks goodness for people who do not know how to work with computers, they keep me employed.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

Everyone are a product of their different experiences:

for me my Mac hard drive corrupted 3 times and kernel panics all over the place, I replaced my hard drive and I had few problems since then. I have run into compatibility issues with my university software using Macs, and some accounting software that was simply not available for Macs.

on my windows box, my harddrive never corrupted, and because i kept my system updated and norton running- i never had a problem with virii or spyware. On my pc I can do almost anything without restriction.

Do I hate Macs? No i really like my 12inch powerbook, and my athlon box equally.

And thanks goodness for people who do not know how to work with computers, they keep me employed.

I had the strangest problem with my iMac - it froze up or had a kernel panic randomly every 10 minutes or so. I couldn't even start the Mac from the Mac OS X install CD - I got random kernel panics. I took it into the Apple Store in my area, and the folks at the Genius Bar told me that the cause was corrupted power manager settings. Resetting the Power Management Unit (PMU) and fixing settings that depend on it, such as the system date and time, solved the problem. It hasn't crashed since - and that was in early February 2004.

Now as far as my PC goes:

There are times when I need Windows to do something I can't accomplish on the Mac; however, Windows has a habit of getting in the way when you want to get something done. For example, I once tried to send a group of files from my PC to my Mac, but the transfer failed, and Windows told me "the path is too deep". Us users shouldn't have to worry about such things as how deep a directory in my user space is in the directory tree - Windows should just copy the file(s) regardless of path length (and increase the path limit to 65,536 characters so this problem won't recur).

 

[Yotabyte]

ROFL!

Ah well, it's formatting season!

Nice to know that Norton, infact, thinks the system is okay when I get a constantly spamming Virus alert. (btw, it's not W32.Dumaru.AI, it's similar to it though, tricky little bastard.)

I've done full systems scans with Norton twice (once in safe mode) then I did the same with an online scanner, then I updated my firewall as some component of this virus is now trying to infect other windows computers (random addresses, thanks netstat)

So yes, it all sucks. Nice to know that none of the major anti-virus programs can find it, tis a smart white whale. Old Ahab has to go back to huntin' now.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

Ah well, it's formatting season!

Nice to know that Norton, infact, thinks the system is okay when I get a constantly spamming Virus alert. (btw, it's not W32.Dumaru.AI, it's similar to it though, tricky little bastard.)

I've done full systems scans with Norton twice (once in safe mode) then I did the same with an online scanner, then I updated my firewall as some component of this virus is now trying to infect other windows computers (random addresses, thanks netstat)

So yes, it all sucks. Nice to know that none of the major anti-virus programs can find it, tis a smart white whale. Old Ahab has to go back to huntin' now.

Actually, Norton's status monitors don't tie in to the virus scanning engine at all, so it's quite possible that everything could be set up correctly (thus Norton reporting an OK status) and yet a full scan reveals that you are infected (explaining the dialog above). All the status monitors do is check to make sure that full system scans and updates happen on a schedule and that these things are enabled. For some strange reason, the status monitor isn't tied to Auto-Protect, which should have spotted this virus when it entered your system.

 

[angelneo]

There was once when I got infected a couple of viruses that disabled my norton anti-virus. It even blocked all the popular anti-virus website to route it to localhost. It was so damm frustrating to remove these viruses when they attempt to remove all your capabilities to seek help. You do not even have to do anything except to go online and you would be vulnerable to virus attack. A firewall and anti-virus is now a must for all XP installation.

 

[VincentVega]

I've been using XP since it came out in 2001 (?) and I've had... no viruses. No spyware. No BSODs since I built my current box back in May 2002.

How so? Let's see...

1. My computer is permanently connected to the Internet, but sits behind a router (so other PCs can share the connection), making it invisible from the outside world.
2. I use the Opera browser for all my web surfing, apart from Firefox (for GMail) and Internet Exploder (for Windows Update).
3. I use WebWasher to filter out pop-ups, ads and other junk. This makes Web browsing much nicer. I strongly recommend WW - it works very well with both Opera and Firefox (Download link).
4. Symantec Antivirus is running permanently. Fully up-to-date.
5. Running XP SP2, Automatic Updates are turned on, so any critical updates are downloaded and installed for me in the background. I check for non-critical updates and Office 2003 patches regularly and use Microsoft Baseline Security Adviser to check for anything else required (MBSA download link).
6. I use AdAware to scan for spyware. It picks up cookies and that's about it.
7. I have a number of email addresses. My main one is used for people whom I trust (family, friends) and companies whom I feel have good reputations (Apple, Amazon, etc). I use free ones (GMail, Yahoo) for signing up for forums and for people whom I don't entirely trust not to send me silly pictures in an email.
8. When posting on Usenet, I spoof my email address and use a fake name.
9. I re-install Windows every couple of months, using a Symantec Ghost image I took of a clean post-SP2 installation. I can get all my apps up and running in a few hours.

None of these are particularly difficult to do, nor do they take any time. You just need to be careful. However, as someone mentioned up-thread, most people don't care or are just ignorant of the risks and how to fix their computer. Apple has a huge advantage in this regard: Mac users seem to be more tech-savvy, the computers are built better and so on. Perhaps it also gains through "security through obscurity".

Windows XP is by no means perfect, but to say it "sucks" is going a bit far (certainly after MS released SP2). It has its pros and its cons. Much like any other operating system.