Why won't Apple let you buy Snow Leopard via a download?

[pdjudd]

Negative. Vista Upgrade Anytime was offered as a download. I would not recommend it, or any other substantial download without the guarantee of a repeat download if the first one craps out. This happened to a PC Mag journalist in the UK who tried VUA download. His conclusion - always, always go for a hard copy.

I thought that Vista anytime upgrade just contacted a web server to charge your card and unlocked files that were on the DVD that you already had - it never downloaded anything other than a new license file.

Anyway, I was referring to offering ISO's of it's products - it's only really offered to businesses under volume license agreements.

Anyay, the point is moot - large downloads like that are not viable for customers unless QOS can be guaranteed. It gets harder to do that the longer the download is.

 

[Daveoc64]

Anyay, the point is moot - large downloads like that are not viable for customers unless QOS can be guaranteed. It gets harder to do that the longer the download is.

I don't really understand what you mean by that, there's plenty you can do to combat even the worst download issues (such as a total network disconnection/power loss).

 

[TheBritishBloke]

Look at what happened with iPhone 3.0? A 300MB File practically crashed their servers, with it downloading slow as hell. Imagine that, with a 6GB file.

Also, as said, it would make it more vulnerable to piracy that way, as I believe the one's they supply on discs are tied to a certain mac as soon as they are put in the drive and the install procedure begins.

And personally, I like having them via CD's, then you always have a backup, and... I like keeping the boxes xD

 

[stainlessliquid]

Yes. They will do it when there is enough bandwidth to make it worth their while, and when they can do it in a way that the vast majority of people who choose that method won't experience any substantial hiccups. They'll do it when they can do it right. Because earning $3 more per OS copy isn't worth it to them when they have to deal with all the pundits talking about all the glitches and all the people who weren't able to download, or who got corrupted or incomplete downloads, or all the people that didn't burn their dvds right and end up calling tech support, etc. Because they'd rather make money in the long run than make some short term gain at the expense of their reputation.

You work for the RIAA dont you?

This all sounds so familiar, ignoring a huge segment of the market that is comfortable with computers enough to be able to download things properly and burn them to a disc. There were probably people like you thinking selling things online for shipping is crazy because of the dangers of hacking and getting your information stolen, or it getting lost in the mail, or getting the wrong product and having to send it back, or getting damaged during shipping, or any other scenario.

There is nothing wrong with downloading large files online. Many companies offer their software for download of similair size. Adobe has been doing it for years, game companies have been doing it for years, Linux has been doing it for years, MS is doing it, pretty much everyone is doing it. There is nothing to invent, there is nothing to fix, there is nothing to "get right"

 

[BaldiMac]

I believe it solves all of them.

How does it solve the problem of increased support costs? Regardless of the proposed installer, there will be more problems with a 6Gb download than a DVD. There are a considerable amount of people who don't know the difference between a recordable DVD and a frisbee. You can say that they could just continue to buy the box copy. And they could. But some of them won't.

Re-downloading is obviously not fixed by your proposal. Not only because of download errors, but also hard drive and DVD failures.

Customer confusion. Sure, you and I know that you would have to get the installer directly from Apple, but what about the plethora of other sites that offer it cheaper or even free.

Perception of downloads vs retail boxes. People perceive something they buy in a nice box as more valuable than something the download from the internet.

I'm not saying that all of these items have a significant impact. They are just all things that Apple would consider in choosing to go with downloads. At some point the bandwidth will be available to minimize the risk.

 

[cmaier]

You work for the RIAA dont you?

This all sounds so familiar, ignoring a huge segment of the market that is comfortable with computers enough to be able to download things properly and burn them to a disc. There were probably people like you thinking selling things online for shipping is crazy because of the dangers of hacking and getting your information stolen, or it getting lost in the mail, or getting the wrong product and having to send it back, or getting damaged during shipping, or any other scenario.

There is nothing wrong with downloading large files online. Many companies offer their software for download of similair size. Adobe has been doing it for years, game companies have been doing it for years, Linux has been doing it for years, MS is doing it, pretty much everyone is doing it. There is nothing to invent, there is nothing to fix, there is nothing to "get right"

You have completely misrepresented my argument. My argument is that:

1) a small percentage of people will do it, so devoting ANY resources to enable it is inefficient.

2) when they do it, it will inevitably cause immediate and future support issues.

3) re: "get right": doing it the way linux does it is certainly not right. What % of the population downloads linux? Doing it the way MS does it is hardly EVERY the right thing to do.

p.s.: you should stick to substantive argument rather than name calling and strawman arguments. Your argument is as valid as me saying "satan worshipers like you always want everything on-line so the people you've locked in your basement have no chance to escape when you leave the house." You don't know me, and you've completely invented an argument I didn't make solely so you can refute it.

 

[Daveoc64]

How does it solve the problem of increased support costs? Regardless of the proposed installer, there will be more problems with a 6Gb download than a DVD. There are a considerable amount of people who don't know the difference between a recordable DVD and a frisbee. You can say that they could just continue to buy the box copy. And they could. But some of them won't.

Re-downloading is obviously not fixed by your proposal. Not only because of download errors, but also hard drive and DVD failures.

Customer confusion. Sure, you and I know that you would have to get the installer directly from Apple, but what about the plethora of other sites that offer it cheaper or even free.

Perception of downloads vs retail boxes. People perceive something they buy in a nice box as more valuable than something the download from the internet.

I'm not saying that all of these items have a significant impact. They are just all things that Apple would consider in choosing to go with downloads. At some point the bandwidth will be available to minimize the risk.

Like marketing.

Not an issue, simply have a few banners on apple.com

Support costs

Simply integrate it into the Apple Store and you can use the same support staff. I can't see any serious issues using my automated installer system (mostly it would be things like billing problems)

Re-downloading.

I don't see how this is a problem. You simply allow the user to download the software again through whatever mechanism you used to distribute it in the first place. Some online stores place a limit on downloading again (e.g. 6 months)

Customer confusion.

Where would the confusion come from? It would be made clear on apple.com (the only place the option was really mentioned) that you could order a DVD or do it online

Apple would be the sole company offering this option to consumers. It simply wouldn't be available any other way.

Possibility of corruption.

While that's plausible, there are plenty of simple, transparent ways to combat this. My installer idea could check the integrity of the image and download corrupt portion(s) again.

Customer perception of downloads vs retail boxes.

I don't really understand this point. Obviously if you don't like a downloadable version you'd just buy the retail box.

 

[tekio]

Also, as said, it would make it more vulnerable to piracy that way, as I believe the one's they supply on discs are tied to a certain mac as soon as they are put in the drive and the install procedure begins.

Retail disks are all the same & can be installed on as many macs as you want ( although you're breaking the ELUA by installing it on more than one. )

Snow leopard will be available on torrent sites within 24 hours of the release regardless of if apple has a download option or not.

 

[Consultant]

It is 2009, not 1999. Its all about service and being customer-centric. So not not offer this as an option still seems quite silly. As for the download of an OS taking 2 days, well, I downloaded Win 7 RC and it took 2 hours and SN can't be more bloated that Win 7, can it? As for bringing Apple's servers to their knees, well, maybe 'pdjudd' hit the nail on the head: Apple just can't handle it. But this seems equally silly given that Apple has re-written the book on downloading...apps, moives, music, podcast...etc.

Just one man's opinion.....

Apple is doing something right the last time all the financial analysts looked at it.

MS is flooding the market with a free product (windows 7), so they can inconvenient you into buying it when the free win 7 serial expires.

 

[stainlessliquid]

You have completely misrepresented my argument. My argument is that:

1) a small percentage of people will do it, so devoting ANY resources to enable it is inefficient.

2) when they do it, it will inevitably cause immediate and future support issues.

3) re: "get right": doing it the way linux does it is certainly not right. What % of the population downloads linux? Doing it the way MS does it is hardly EVERY the right thing to do.

p.s.: you should stick to substantive argument rather than name calling and strawman arguments. Your argument is as valid as me saying "satan worshipers like you always want everything on-line so the people you've locked in your basement have no chance to escape when you leave the house." You don't know me, and you've completely invented an argument I didn't make solely so you can refute it.

1) Tell that to Valve, Sony, Microsoft, EA, and Adobe.

2) Everything causes support issues. The easiest way to solve this problem is to never do anything ever.

3) Theres nothing wrong with the way MS does it. Every major company offers a way to pause and resume downloads of large files which also virtually eliminates any corruption. You are arguing on ignorance.

 

[BaldiMac]

Not an issue, simply have a few banners on apple.com

Have you done the market research to determine that this will offset the marketing benefits of boxed versions? Again, I'm not saying I know the answer one way or the other. It's just something that Apple would consider.

Simply integrate it into the Apple Store and you can use the same support staff. I can't see any serious issues using my automated installer system (mostly it would be things like billing problems)

I don't think it is very debatable that there will be more support calls with downloading and burning to DVD vs buying a boxed DVD. It's not which support staff that they would use that would be the problem, it's the increased volume of calls.

I don't see how this is a problem. You simply allow the user to download the software again through whatever mechanism you used to distribute it in the first place. Some online stores place a limit on downloading again (e.g. 6 months)

How many times? Any smaller limit will be met with discontent and a larger limit will be abused. There is no middle. Is that worth it? Maybe, maybe not.

Where would the confusion come from? It would be made clear on apple.com (the only place the option was really mentioned) that you could order a DVD or do it online

Because some people don't know if they have the required DVD drive. They don't know what their download speeds are. They don't know the difference between an OS update and an update to Safari. But they think they do.

Apple would be the sole company offering this option to consumers. It simply wouldn't be available any other way.

Have you met the internet? Apple will most definitely not be the only one offering downloads of "OS X Snow Leopard".

While that's plausible, there are plenty of simple, transparent ways to combat this. My installer idea could check the integrity of the image and download corrupt portion(s) again.

But my point is not that it can't be mitigated, but that it will create more problems than a DVD.

I don't really understand this point. Obviously if you don't like a downloadable version you'd just buy the retail box.

It's not about what you like. It's about perceived value. Apple wants to maximize the value of OS X in the eyes of consumers.

 

[Infrared]

Same goes for Microsoft, they only allow software downloads to businesses or educational institutions that can take smaller downloads.

Wrong. E.g. this store selling to the general public:

http://emea.microsoftstore.com/UK/Microsoft/Windows-7-Professional-E



You can also download the OS *and* have a backup
disc sent to you, if that's what you want.

 

[tekio]

I'm surprised microsoft charge the same price for both options unlike adobe.

 

[DoFoT9]

i think a downloadable OSX would be most welcome in the community and appeal to a wider audience.

as for the people that are saying it will be pirated more: it takes 5 minutes for ANYBODY to create a disc image of OSX and put it on the internet... if they have the capabilities to upload 6GB+ to hundreds of users i think they will most certainly be able to download the OSX install disc image in less then 5 minutes

 

[Kat King123]

i would love to able to leave my macbook on over night and then burn a disk the next day and be up and running. why i think this isnt gonna happen at least for snow leopard is that apple probably already have produced a MASSIVE amount of dvds for snow leopard. so who knows maybe in 10.7?

 

[cmaier]

i would love to able to leave my macbook on over night and then burn a disk the next day and be up and running. why i think this isnt gonna happen at least for snow leopard is that apple probably already have produced a MASSIVE amount of dvds for snow leopard. so who knows maybe in 10.7?

Probably. First, by then their new data center should be up. Also by then, an increasing number of mac users will have driveless machines (macbook air, tablets, etc.)

 

[Daveoc64]

Have you met the internet? Apple will most definitely not be the only one offering downloads of "OS X Snow Leopard".

I don't understand this point.

Apple is the only company authorised to decide how its products are distributed. If Apple chose not to let anybody else offer a download of Mac OS X (and that would be very easy to do), then your issue simply wouldn't exist.

If Apple did choose to offer downloads through third parties (either instead of or as well as itself) then it would have control over how it happened and the experience could be controlled in that way.

If companies chose to do it without an agreement, it would be just as illegal as it is now.

 

[mZex]

I wouldnt mind having the option to d/l the OS

But for me - the several times (In fact twice in the first week of owning my macbook pro! 2 years ago my Windows ways just did not compute )
That I've booted my screen to only see blue / grey ... I do like to know my DVD is lying around to override and pound home hard with an Erase and Install

 

[DoFoT9]

I wouldnt mind having the option to d/l the OS

But for me - the several times (In fact twice in the first week of owning my macbook pro! 2 years ago my Windows ways just did not compute )
That I've booted my screen to only see blue / grey ... I do like to know my DVD is lying around to override and pound home hard with an Erase and Install

yes, it does give the added security. imagine if you hadnt gotten around to burning the disc and your computer died on you.. how annoying.

 

[BaldiMac]

I don't understand this point.

Apple is the only company authorised to decide how its products are distributed. If Apple chose not to let anybody else offer a download of Mac OS X (and that would be very easy to do), then your issue simply wouldn't exist.

If Apple did choose to offer downloads through third parties (either instead of or as well as itself) then it would have control over how it happened and the experience could be controlled in that way.

Sorry if I was unclear. I was referring to unauthorized distributers of what may or may not be the official version of Snow Leopard.

 

[BaldiMac]

i think a downloadable OSX would be most welcome in the community and appeal to a wider audience.

as for the people that are saying it will be pirated more: it takes 5 minutes for ANYBODY to create a disc image of OSX and put it on the internet... if they have the capabilities to upload 6GB+ to hundreds of users i think they will most certainly be able to download the OSX install disc image in less then 5 minutes

For the most part, you are right about the ease of piracy, but there is also the issue of perception. If something is commercially available to download on the internet, there are some people who are more likely to download it for free. It's almost as if the commercial download legitimizes the pirate downloads.

 

[thegoldenmackid]

For the most part, you are right about the ease of piracy, but there is also the issue of perception. If something is commercially available to download on the internet, there are some people who are more likely to download it for free. It's almost as if the commercial download legitimizes the pirate downloads.

So if it's online, I can download it illegally. Oh boy, do I have a night of fun planned out...

 

[BaldiMac]

So if it's online, I can download it illegally. Oh boy, do I have a night of fun planned out...

While that is true, that's not what I said.

 

[DoFoT9]

For the most part, you are right about the ease of piracy, but there is also the issue of perception. If something is commercially available to download on the internet, there are some people who are more likely to download it for free. It's almost as if the commercial download legitimizes the pirate downloads.

true, but i dont see it becoming any more "available" then the normal discs are. i mean, we will see the same sort of numbers being available illegally on the internet.

if apple went this downloadable road, i think they would include a serial or some sort of check to make sure it can only be installed once or 5times (depending on licence), and we DONT want that happening.

So if it's online, I can download it illegally. Oh boy, do I have a night of fun planned out...

everything is online to download illegally. an 18y/o should know that!

 

[RangerFan104]

Maybe now it's just less likely to be copied and given out this way​