Why's fragmentation so bad?

[cynics]

You really don't think that you have choice in Android hardware because Google CARES ABOUT YOU, do you?

You have choice in Android hardware because the fastest way for Google to gain marketshare is to license Android to anyone who wants to make a device that uses it. That's Google caring about Google.

The byproduct of that approach is that you have hundreds (if not thousands) of companies making Android devices in all shapes and sizes.

If Google really cared about you, then IMO they'd have a clause in their licensing that requires Android hardware manufacturers to make all new Android OS updates available to hardware that supports them...

... but that would slow down the proliferation of Android devices, which doesn't really help Google with their goal of getting one in as many hands as possible, correlating data with Google accounts, and selling better targeted ads.

If anything, Apple NOT going down that route (the same route that Microsoft did with their phones, a decade ago) does speak to them caring enough about their customers to ensure that the iPhones get two major iOS updates (after the one it shipped with). Out of curiosity, has any Android device ever received two major Android OS updates (after the one it shipped with)?

What do you mean by "major updates"?

My Xoom went from Honeycomb > Ice Cream Sandwich > Jelly Bean....

I believe all of the Nexus line gets 2 updates.

Nexus One - Froyo > Gingerbread > Ice Cream Sandwich

Nexus S - Gingerbread > Ice Cream Sandwich > Jelly Bean

Galaxy Nexus - Ice Cream Sandwich > Jelly Bean > ?

The reason I point this out is its a good comparison to Apples iPhone. One COULD argue well that's great for the Nexus line but what about non nexus devices?

That's not a good argument if you are comparing it too Apple though because there is no non Apple (nexus) devices at all. So I could say "If Apple really cared about their customers they let them pick the device they want".

Two different business models and both have pros and cons.

 

[onthecouchagain]

In all of the reviews/blogs/forum posts that I've read about Windows Phone, I don't recall any that had objections that stemmed from Microsoft's "middle ground" licensing terms.

On the other hand, it's hard to go a few days without running into something where someone's got a strong objection about Android that stem directly from Google's "wild wild west" licensing terms -- usually around lack of updates (which IMO is the root cause of fragmentation).

I think that most people find Windows Phone to be a 'meh' experience, and that's what's behind "how's it working out for them?". I think that Microsoft could have launched WP with the exact same licensing model that Google uses for Android, and it still wouldn't be nearly as popular as Android.

I mean, if licensing terms were the only thing to gauge "and how's that working out for them?", then there would be no explaining the popularity of iOS.

I understand.

I just can't imagine Google is intentionally causing fragmentation if there isn't a worthwhile benefit. There's no way to know for sure, of course, but I can't imagine Google would have caught up and arguably surpassed iOS if they didn't follow the course they did -- relentless updates, unafraid of major redesign for fear of old specs/hardware (GB to ICS was a huge leap for them), unafraid of fragmentation so OEMs can run with hardware and skins (there are people now who prefer skins like Sense or TW and even find stock Android boring), etc. Granted, there were growing pains, and there still are some, but they are where they are and Android is what it is because of the business model and philosophy they followed.

Also -- and this is speaking generally now -- I don't believe fragmentation on Android will ever go away. But remember that Google is doing its best to offer solutions to people who really care about direct and timely updates. A whole new Nexus line is now really finding its stride, the newly added Google Play Editions offer even more exciting stock options (hopefully updates will continue to come within days like it did with 4.3) and with more OEMs likely joining the fray (Motorola in the very near future is the obvious example. There have been rumors of Sony too joining the fun).

Finally, OEMs are getting the picture and are putting an emphasis on offering updates. There's still plenty of room to grow in this department, but there's no arguing it's better than it's ever been before.

I would not be in a rush for Google to switch their business model and philosophy all of a sudden. It's clearly working out for them. The majority of users have no idea what "4.2.2" or "4.3" even means. They just know "Android." And if they pick up any current-gen device -- specifically anything ICS and above -- they're in for a great experience regardless. Android has just grown and matured that much.

For everyone else that does care about fragmentation/updates, there are the above options.

It's really not a big deal.

I will add, though, that the final frontier that Google does need to work on and balance out is app optimization for tablets and luring (<-- is that the right word?) developers to stop giving iOS app exclusivity, whether it's eliminating exclusivity altogether or lowering the exclusivity time period. As a first-time Nexus 7 owner, I can appreciate that this is one area they need to focus on.

 

[rcp27]

The root cause of Android fragmentation is that google produces an operating system and integrates it to a single hardware device (whatever is the current generation of Nexus), and then open-sources it. For all other hardware, the hardware manufacturer has to modify the drivers to interface with their own choice of hardware (screen size, memory, CPU, GPU etc). They are able to make other changes too. As the integration of new versions of the software requires input from the manufacturers, who would rather you buy new than continue using old hardware, this is slow and often does not happen at all.

The fragmentation therefore takes three forms:

1) lots of different hardware configurations
2) lots of out-of-date versions of the OS in use
3) lots of non-standard modifications to the "stock" OS made by hardware manufacturers or phone networks, effectively producing minimally supported forks

App writers either need to write their apps to accommodate the full range of these (making development hard), or chose just a subset to write for (restricting their potential market). Given problem 2, even if the OS is updated to include fancy new features, the time taken for those features to reach a significant fraction of the user base is very slow, and the time taken for app writers to feel safe adopting them (due to excluding too much of the potential market) is also slow.

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I will add, though, that the final frontier that Google does need to work on and balance out is app optimization for tablets.

I think part of the problem here is that the dividing line between phone and tablet does not clearly exist in Android devices. In iOS there is the iPhone/iPod Touch and there is the iPad, and they are clearly defined devices. Android devices are manufactured in the full range from 3" up to >10", with no clear division between "phone" and "tablet", indeed devices like the Galaxy Note deliberately straddle the boundary. If the OS and the hardware makers do not draw a distinction between phone and tablet, how can app developers be expected to either?

 

[aristobrat]

Two different business models and both have pros and cons.

I've never disagreed with that statement.

I just don't agree that fragmentation (as large as Android's) is unavoidable, and something Google should get an easy pass on.

I think that if Google would...

1 - design their Android updates to not exclude devices that can't run 100% of the update
2 - require manufacturers to pass along at least every other update

... then they wouldn't be in a position where 33% of the Android devices recently checking into Google Play are still running Gingerbread.

Not Jelly Bean.
Not Ice Cream Sandwich.

... but Gingerbread?!

 

[onthecouchagain]

I think part of the problem here is that the dividing line between phone and tablet does not clearly exist in Android devices. In iOS there is the iPhone/iPod Touch and there is the iPad, and they are clearly defined devices. Android devices are manufactured in the full range from 3" up to >10", with no clear division between "phone" and "tablet", indeed devices like the Galaxy Note deliberately straddle the boundary. If the OS and the hardware makers do not draw a distinction between phone and tablet, how can app developers be expected to either?

Very good point.

Do the developers that have updated/optimized apps for tablets just choose a specific Android tablet to optimize it for? Say, the Nexus 7? Which then means it's not optimized for, say, the new 8" Galaxy tablet?

Can developers optimize apps to a "general" 7-10" while keeping smartphone apps a "general" 4-6"? Will the scaling be negligible?

 

[Klosefabrinio]

Does it matter if they confirmed it?

because others can lie

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What does it matter? I don't see your point at all.

other's can easily manipulate and lie, but apple wont, they dont wanna get embarrassed.

 

[Tinmania]

I've never disagreed with that statement.

I just don't agree that fragmentation (as large as Android's) is unavoidable, and something Google should get an easy pass on.

I think that if Google would...

1 - design their Android updates to not exclude devices that can't run 100% of the update

So you are wanting to trade one kind of fragmentation for another kind. The iOS kind. No thanks. Gee my daughter's iPhone 4 runs iOS 7. Kinda.

I also like that core apps in Android are updated outside OS updates.



Michael

 

[Michael Goff]

because others can lie

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other's can easily manipulate and lie, but apple wont, they dont wanna get embarrassed.

Except they show a picture of it.

:|

 

[aristobrat]

I also like that core apps in Android are updated outside OS updates.

Me too. I wish Apple would do that with iOS.

So you are wanting to trade one kind of fragmentation for another kind. The iOS kind. No thanks. Gee my daughter's iPhone 4 runs iOS 7. Kinda.

AFAIK, there are four iOS features that won't run on your daughter's iPhone 4.

Why would you not want her to be able to use the rest of the boat load of iOS 7 features?

Out of curiosity, what version of iOS is her iPhone 4 on now?


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because others can lie

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other's can easily manipulate and lie, but apple wont, they dont wanna get embarrassed.

Um, what?

We're talking about AnandTech.com here. Their entire life is based around properly reporting stuff like that.

IMO, AnandTech has WAY more to lose than Apple if they misstated something like the number of cores in a processor.

 

[adnbek]

because others can lie

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other's can easily manipulate and lie, but apple wont, they dont wanna get embarrassed.

Did you even look at the article? They actually examined the cpu die (with pictures!). There are two cores, so stop embarrassing yourself.

By the way, the A5 is also dual core.

If you wish to dispute this, feel free to examine the die with an electron microscope yourself and post your evidence.

 

[Tinmania]

AFAIK, there are four iOS features that won't run on your daughter's iPhone 4.

Why would you not want her to be able to use the rest of the boat load of iOS 7 features?

Out of curiosity, what version of iOS is her iPhone 4 on now?

She is on 6.1.4. I am registered developer and she has already tried iOS 7; and promptly asked for it to be removed (1st and 5th betas, same result). She is 15 and rather tech savvy (currently wants me to jailbreak it).



Michael

 

[aristobrat]

She is on 6.1.4. I am registered developer and she has already tried iOS 7; and promptly asked for it to be removed (1st and 5th betas, same result). She is 15 and rather tech savvy (currently wants me to jailbreak it).

So she asked for it to be removed because of the feature fragmentation coming from 6.1.4, which would only be two iOS 7 features (AirDrop and Filters in the Camera App)?

 

[Tinmania]

So she asked for it to be removed because of the feature fragmentation coming from 6.1.4, which would only be two iOS 7 features (AirDrop and Filters in the Camera App)?

I never stated that was the reason she asked for it to be removed. She just did not like iOS 7.

She will probably hold off on iOS 7 for as long as possible. Ergo, she won't get any updates to core apps. One of my earlier points was that on Android, she would still get those updates.


Michael

 

[aristobrat]

I never stated that was the reason she asked for it to be removed. She just did not like iOS 7.

Sorry about that. I was reading while working and somehow totally mixed up your post about that.

Ergo, she won't get any updates to core apps. One of my earlier points was that on Android, she would still get those updates.

I definitely like that Android does the core apps separately!

 

[Klosefabrinio]

Did you even look at the article? They actually examined the cpu die (with pictures!). There are two cores, so stop embarrassing yourself.

By the way, the A5 is also dual core.

If you wish to dispute this, feel free to examine the die with an electron microscope yourself and post your evidence.

so you're trusting a site, which has no relation with apple.
as i said, others can easily manipulate(pics can be edited)

 

[Tinmania]

so you're trusting a site, which has no relation with apple.
as i said, others can easily manipulate(pics can be edited)

Adnbek wrote, "...stop embarrassing yourself." And then you post this.




Michael

 

[decafjava]

Adnbek wrote, "...stop embarrassing yourself." And then you post this.




Michael

Indeed, I wish posts could still be downvoted.

 

[aristobrat]

so you're trusting a site, which has no relation with apple.
as i said, others can easily manipulate(pics can be edited)

You keep missing (purposefully?) that Anandtech is one of the premiere sites that people turn to for accurate and in-depth hardware analysis.

Their technical analysis of Antennagate blew the issue wide open when all that Apple was saying was "You're holding it wrong."

IMO, your contributed posts about this are really discrediting any good reputation that you may have had in this thread.

 

[charlesdayton]

Okay, I get it. When there are a bunch of apps, that require iOS 6 or higher and won't work on an iPad 1, that's obsolescence. When apps don't run an older Android device, that is called fragmentation. Thanks.

That's obsolesce too. The problem is that there are still new phones coming out with older versions of Android and many stop getting updates at a years mark. iOS 6 still runs on the 3gs wich is a 4 years old phone!

 

[charlesdayton]

Well I bought a Nexus 7 shortly after I bought the iPad 3. A year later, I bought the new Nexus 7 (2013) and all 96 apps that were on my old Nexus 7 worked fine on the new Nexus 7.

My son has my old Nexus 7 and will be upgrading to Android 4.3 if he hasn't done so already.

BTW - I also purchased the Yoga 13 (Windows 8) last year and all my important programs, most I used on Windows XP, work fine. Microsoft adapted to the fragmentation problem years ago.

Nexus devices get updates on time, the problem is with all the non nexus/play edition ones. And it is not because of google, manufacturers take their sweet time modifying Android updates for their devices, plus add the time the carrier takes to install the crapware and that's the cause of the late updates.

 

[aristobrat]

Balky carriers and slow OEMs step aside: Google is defragging Android

Pretty neat Ars article on how Google has solved fragmentation, at least for their apps.

 

[APhillyApple]

Android obviously, anyone that says otherwise is just being a homer. There are still tons of Android phones that are running Froyo, lol.

 

[ProteinJunkie]

As an Android developer myself, I can tell you guys that getting your apps to work across every single Android device is a royal pain in the rear end. I'm working on a new music player right now and I can't begin to explain how many fragmented errors reports I've received over the past few weeks. My app's still in the beta phase because of all this fragmentation. My official testing device is a Nexus 7, and there have been errors that were reported to me from different devices (SGS3, SGS4, SGS2, HTC One, and Sony xperia to name a few), that I've never ever been able to reproduce on my Nexus 7. Seriously, how bad is that? You're a developer who's trying to fix all the bugs in your app, but those bugs pop up on a multitude of devices that you don't have access to.

This is why all the top-notch Android developers sit around at their desks with 20-30 different devices in front of them. I laugh whenever someone tells me that it costs a lot to be a developer for Apple (the $99/year developer fee). Trust me, with all the devices you need to buy in order to get your app tested on each and every phone/tablet, Android development is a hell of a lot more expensive that developing for iOS. I'm only developing for Android right now because I don't have a Mac or an iPhone/iPad (I have the iPod touch 4th gen). All I can say is that the first $2000 that I earn on my new app is gonna go towards buying a new rMBP.

Basically, fragmentation on Android sucks big time for developers. It's not as bad for users, but if developers can't get quality apps onto the market because of the all the fragmentation, then normal users will also start to suffer.

 

[Technarchy]

Balky carriers and slow OEMs step aside: Google is defragging Android

Pretty neat Ars article on how Google has solved fragmentation, at least for their apps.

Like Google Now and Chrome.

 

[Kashsystems]

So many inaccuracies in this thread.

Lets go to what stand out the most to me.

1st. Windows being the most fragmented system

Windows has a driver base system so changes in hardware can always be adjusted from. Want to swap hard drives, install an usb device, a new GPU, no problem.
Windows also offers backwards compatibility to a point as been evident their are many many programs that can run on Windows Xp and Windows 8. The only time issues do arrive in software it usually involves running old outdated 16bit programs on later Windows operating systems. Also Windows 7 32bit will run on really old hardware.
Due to virtualization this is not an issue and you can run Windows 8 and run Windows 98 on the same machine and run your old outdate programs.

Fragmentation really doesn't exist when you have too many options to over come it with regards to windows.


2nd. Android fragmentation is bad because if you wish to support a large chunk of the Android devices, you still need to program towards Gingerbread because it still holds 30 percent of the Android market. Which means not programming to use cool new features.

Even if you ignore Gingerbread if you wanted the best margin of compatibility you need to program for Android 4.0 not beyond.

Sure you can focus on limited versions, but for example if I wanted to program an application to take full advantage of the features in Android 4.2, I would have to ignore 91 percent of the market.


3rd. Google Play Edition and Nexus devices are such a small minority of sales that they aren't a big enough draw. I know overseas is different, but in the United States, the majority of phones are bought on contract.

4th. U.S. Carriers slow down progress and they will never let a company get control again like they did with Apple.

5th. Google updating Google Now and other Google Services, has no benefit towards developers. The APIs in Android does not change so that means on the development side of things, there is nothing new for developers to tap into. Sure they added new features to their products and services, like what was done with Hangouts, but what neat thing can I program for yet? Oh that is right, absolutely nothing.


One more thing.

We are reaching a point where technology will peak for mobile devices and things like the user experience (Moto X) will be the focus or something different(Flexible Glass).

At some point when a majority of phones have quad core processors and 2/3gbs of ram you need something else.

So hardware fragmentation will really become part of the past as everything will be good enough over the next 2-3 years.