Wifi and Wired Internet - Can it co-exist?

[kennyman]

Hello,

I have recently purchased an Airport Extreme Wifi Router. I setup the device following an online guide and I was able to access wifi, no problem.

However, on my MacPro (wired connection), I cannot see my MacBook (which is connected via wifi only), and sharing a folder. If I enable wifi on my MacPro, then I will be able to see MacBook. Is there a way of not enabling wifi on the MacPro to access the MacBook remotely through only wired connection?

My network connection is as per the example below:

DSL Cable Modem (4 ports)
Port 1 Connected to HP Switch 1810 8 Port
Port 2 Connected to Airport Extreme

I would not see any devices connected to wifi, unless I enabled wifi on my desktop. Is that normal?


Thanks

 

[burne]

Hello,
I would not see any devices connected to wifi, unless I enabled wifi on my desktop. Is that normal?

I'd say 'no', but my setup is slightly different. I have my modem in what is called bridge mode, and the Airport Extreme is the one handing out IP's to clients. Both wired (via two switches) and wireless.

Your setup has the possible misconfiguration in which you have your AE handing out IP's as well as your DSL modem. If that is the case you'll have two separate networks.

How experienced are you with networking?

 

[chrfr]

However, on my MacPro (wired connection), I cannot see my MacBook (which is connected via wifi only), and sharing a folder. If I enable wifi on my MacPro, then I will be able to see MacBook. Is there a way of not enabling wifi on the MacPro to access the MacBook remotely through only wired connection?

Assuming your DSL modem is distributing IP addresses, put the Airport in bridge mode and use one of the LAN ports (not the internet/WAN port) to connect the Airport to the switch.

 

[kennyman]

I'd say 'no', but my setup is slightly different. I have my modem in what is called bridge mode, and the Airport Extreme is the one handing out IP's to clients. Both wired (via two switches) and wireless.

Your setup has the possible misconfiguration in which you have your AE handing out IP's as well as your DSL modem. If that is the case you'll have two separate networks.

How experienced are you with networking?

Thank you for your reply, I am comfortable with networking, it is a little strange that the same setup work fine with Windows machines (a Dell laptop connected to wifi and an HP wired desktop) but only Mac will not see each other even if there are on the same vlan, same subnet (255.255.255.0), including correct IP range.

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Assuming your DSL modem is distributing IP addresses, put the Airport in bridge mode and use one of the LAN ports (not the internet/WAN port) to connect the Airport to the switch.

Thanks, I have not tried this yet. Still, I do not understand why the AE cannot just sit right after the DSL and be visible on the network, all the network devices are configured to use the same default gateway.

If I move AE to connect to one of the HP switch, it means the same to me. AE will continue to distribute DHCP IP to any devices connected by Wifi and HP switch will give DHCP IP to any devices that is wired to the ports.

 

[chrfr]

If I move AE to connect to one of the HP switch, it means the same to me. AE will continue to distribute DHCP IP to any devices connected by Wifi and HP switch will give DHCP IP to any devices that is wired to the ports.

This is why you put the Airport in bridge mode and do not use the WAN port. Doing that will put everything on the same network. You could just as easily plug the Airport into the modem, again using a LAN port to do so.

 

[talmy]

My network connection is as per the example below:

DSL Cable Modem (4 ports)
Port 1 Connected to HP Switch 1810 8 Port
Port 2 Connected to Airport Extreme

Having a managed switch is yet another thing that might be misconfigured. I've got (and which has always worked fine):

FIOS cable modem/router with DHCP and Wifi disabled (4 ports)
Port 1 connected to Mac mini server which does DHCP and DNS.
Port 2 connected to un-managed Linksys 8 port switch (and then to 4 computers)
Port 3 connected to Airport Extreme in bridged mode. 10+ Wifi devices in house.

You must make sure you have only one DHCP server and that it is accessible by all systems.

The only LAN problems I've ever had with this setup is occasionally the Linksys will hang and needs to be power cycled. But then I've had frequent problems with the managed switches they use at work.

 

[burne]

Still, I do not understand why the AE cannot just sit right after the DSL and be visible on the network, all the network devices are configured to use the same default gateway.

It defaults to the most common network situation and sometimes the wizard gets it wrong and leaves it in router ('NAT') mode.

Open Airport Utility, go to the fourth tab ('Network') and select 'Bridge mode'.

After restarting your Airport Extreme (or Express) will work as a bridge. That means: incoming packets with a known destination on the wireless network or a unknown destination ('flooding') will get bridged from the wired ethernet (802.3) to the wireless network (802.11a/b/g/n) and vice versa. Nothing will get translated and the DHCP server inside your AE will be disabled.

In other words: it bridges your wired and wireless networks together.

 

[kd5jos]

At least I think this is accurate...

Thanks, I have not tried this yet. Still, I do not understand why the AE cannot just sit right after the DSL and be visible on the network, all the network devices are configured to use the same default gateway.

If I move AE to connect to one of the HP switch, it means the same to me. AE will continue to distribute DHCP IP to any devices connected by Wifi and HP switch will give DHCP IP to any devices that is wired to the ports.

The default gateway is not the problem in this situation.

So here is what is going on. You have two different devices handing out DHCP configuration on a single network.

That this worked for the Microsoft boxes... you got lucky.

You need to have one DHCP server on the network. This is why you should set your WAP to bridge mode. Otherwise devices will accept a DHCP config from whatever DHCP server responds first. When things are connected to the switch, the DHCP server in the switch provides config before the response from the WAP gets to them. When devices are connecting to the WAP and receive a DHCP config, they get it before the response from the DHCP server in the switch gets to them.

The other option is to shut off the DHCP server on your switch (why is a switch providing DHCP service anyway).

Now, why do Widows devices work regardless? In OS X once you have a config, you decline any other responses until the lease expires. In Windows you always go with the most recent lease. OS X is behaving as expected, Windows is being more user friendly. OS X is the higher security approach, Windows is the more compatible approach.

 

[burne]

You have two different devices handing out DHCP configuration on a single network.

No. The Airport Extreme will create a new, separate network, where it functions as NAT-router and DHCP server.

It might even use the same IP addresses as the other network, managed by the DHCP server in the DSL router. And that will work for most simple IP protocols like HTTP and FTP.

Airport Extreme will never give out DHCP responses over the WAN-port.

 

[chrfr]

No. The Airport Extreme will create a new, separate network, where it functions as NAT-router and DHCP server.

In any case, there's no advantage for the OP to have his Airport configured in this way if the goal is to have a single unified network.

 

[talmy]

In any case, there's no advantage for the OP to have his Airport configured in this way if the goal is to have a single unified network.

And a distinct disadvantage since Bonjour won't work through a router, and this was the problem the OP is having!

 

[burne]

And a distinct disadvantage since Bonjour won't work through a router, and this was the problem the OP is having!

And if OP followed my suggestion your use of past tense should be correct.

 

[kennyman]

Wow

Thank you everyone.

My AE is in bridge mode. And I still have issues.

BTW, I have tried this

I am not sure why but now I can connect and even share screen on macs that are on wifi and I have my MacPro on wired line only (no wifi now)

This is mind boggling. Weirdest thing of all, my uncle visited me over the weekend. He can see both wired and wifi devices from his old macbook (2009 running Snow Leopard and connected to wifi).

Definitely some funny business going on here, looks like it is more OS-related rather than hardware.

 

[burne]

Weirdest thing of all, my uncle visited me over the weekend. He can see both wired and wifi devices from his old macbook (2009 running Snow Leopard and connected to wifi).

Please take a peek at your name server configuration. Do you have name servers like Google or OpenDNS overriding the default name server in your Airport Extreme? That might interfere with mDNS and thus bonjour.

If you need those name servers at some specific place creating locations is the solution.

 

[kd5jos]

No. The Airport Extreme will create a new, separate network, where it functions as NAT-router and DHCP server.

It might even use the same IP addresses as the other network, managed by the DHCP server in the DSL router. And that will work for most simple IP protocols like HTTP and FTP.

Airport Extreme will never give out DHCP responses over the WAN-port.

Please read my response before attempting to correct it.

"The Airport Extreme will create a new, separate network, where it functions as NAT-router and DHCP server. "

That is EXACTLY what I said it would do.

"It might even use the same IP addresses as the other network, managed by the DHCP server in the DSL router. "

Only if it is configured to use the same pool as the switch the OP was talking about.

"And that will work for most simple IP protocols like HTTP and FTP. "

Except when you get a conflict because the switch handed out the same IP address as the AirPort.

"Airport Extreme will never give out DHCP responses over the WAN-port."

Never said it would.

 

[burne]

Please read my response before attempting to correct it.

"The Airport Extreme will create a new, separate network, where it functions as NAT-router and DHCP server. "

That is EXACTLY what I said it would do.

No, you said

You have two different devices handing out DHCP configuration on a single network.

You can configure a AE to do that, but you have to deliberate misconfigure it. And it's very unlikely other than to deliberately make a point somebody manages to that, by accident.

 

[HenryAZ]

If your DSL provider uses PPPoE for its WAN setting, there is a much better way to do all this, which is to set the DSL device into bridge mode and use the Airport Extreme as the main router.

First, you have to get your PPPoE login credentials (username should be visible, you'll have to call them to get the password).

Then, do this
1. disable the wi-fi radio on the DSL modem device
2. go to the WAN settings on the DSL modem and set it to Transparent Bridging.
3. plug one ethernet cable from any switch port on the DSL modem into the WAN port of the Airport Extreme
4. on the AE, go to the Internet tab, choose Connect Using and select PPPoE from the drop down list. Enter your DSL login credentials there.

At this point, your DSL device is in modem-only mode, and your AE is acting as your main router. Set the AE to give out DHCP addresses, and plug your local switch and any other devices into the AE.

If you ever need to get back into the DSL device, you'll have to plug a cable into its switch and set your computer at the other end to a static IP on the DSL modem's network, just long enough to access the setup page.

 

[Altemose]

This is why you put the Airport in bridge mode and do not use the WAN port. Doing that will put everything on the same network. You could just as easily plug the Airport into the modem, again using a LAN port to do so.

No. On an AirPort you always use the WAN port regardless of whether you are in bridge mode or DHCP & NAT mode.

 

[Troy2000]

No. On an AirPort you always use the WAN port regardless of whether you are in bridge mode or DHCP & NAT mode.

Well, an AirPort (as with most routers) becomes a switch in bridge mode, so you don't have to use the WAN port but it does enable more immediate identification of which cable runs to your modem.

 

[Altemose]

Well, an AirPort (as with most routers) becomes a switch in bridge mode, so you don't have to use the WAN port but it does enable more immediate identification of which cable runs to your modem.

Very interesting... Apple does recommend that you always use the WAN port however. When you end up doing network administration it becomes a whole lot easier to document when things are plugged in where they should be as well!