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youd cry over a $2000 imac bc you cant reuse the monitor but ok with a $2000 macbook w a smaller screen where you cant replace the chip either? ok lmao

Reusing a laptop monitor is grossly impractical versus using an old iMac that has basically the same footprint as a standalone monitor. Try harder.

Now, if you want to debate this in good faith you could suggest that the decreased size of the SoC could easily led itself to a modular approach to Macbooks the same way I suggested it for iMacs. Replacing the SoC via cartridge or slot, akin to a M2 drive would be glorious.

Will anyone take this courageous step? Probably not, but one can dream.
 
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Agreed and understood. What I was suggesting was some method outside of TDM.



Why so hostile?

Old macs, 2013 and older if memory serves, have target display mode which requires the "computer parts" to still function, what about newer Macs? My suggestion was that it wouldn't be expensive or difficult to have a port that knows, if the power supply is good and there is a cable plugged in here that we are in "monitor mode" and act as such with no other input from the iMac. To be clear, I would suggest this for all AIOs not just iMacs.

Mirroring has nothing to do with this conversation. This is all about AIOs and the fact that the monitor will almost always outlive the CPU and or "computer parts".
why do u need to use a newer imac as a monitor just wait until they go vintage or something
 
Reusing a laptop monitor is grossly impractical versus using an old iMac that has basically the same footprint as a standalone monitor. Try harder.

Now, if you want to debate this in good faith you could suggest that the decreased size of the SoC could easily led itself to a modular approach to Macbooks the same way I suggested it for iMacs. Replacing the SoC via cartridge or slot, akin to a M2 drive would be glorious.

Will anyone take this courageous step? Probably not, but one can dream.

literally no one cares for a modular mac. the mac pro is a huge flop and the all in one imac stays loved and in demand. those modular androids with replaceable SOCs all flopped sorry
 
There appears to be a technical reason related to the custom Timing Controller necessary to allow for 60Hz refresh that prevented Apple from putting TDM into the 4K and 5K iMacs.
They could simply add a DisplayPort input mode that bypasses all of the “Mac” functionality and turns the whole iMac into a “dumb” display. That would be more effective than TDM anyway.
 
youd cry over a $2000 imac bc you cant reuse the monitor but ok with a $2000 macbook w a smaller screen where you cant replace the chip either? ok lmao
As I said in the post - not wanting to throw away the display with the CPU is one reason why I prefer a headless desktop over a laptop - and why I don't want another iMac. If you need the mobility of a clamshell laptop then there isn't currently any alternative to a built-in display, and anything else would be a significant design challenge if you also want it to be super-thin super-light and super-power efficient. (There's a thread discussing the Framework laptop somewhere... it seems to come with a lot of compromises).
 
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Now, if you want to debate this in good faith you could suggest that the decreased size of the SoC could easily led itself to a modular approach to Macbooks the same way I suggested it for iMacs. Replacing the SoC via cartridge or slot, akin to a M2 drive would be glorious.
Not a bad idea - but a few likely problems.

First, the cartridge/slot is likely to be proprietary - and in reality (esp. considering that Apple want to make money) you'd probably only get maybe 18 months of upgradeability before the standard changed - possibly for good technical reasons (e.g. the M4 seems to support different TB port configurations c.f. M2/M3 - would the "cartridge" include the USB-C and other ports?) if not just planned obsolescence. So you're looking at a short "upgrade window" during the time where your Mac will still have a pretty high trade-in/resale value. Maybe better than nothing - but it wouldn't be a solution for those of us (say) looking at a 2017 iMac with a display panel that is still ahead of the game lumbered with an obsolete 7-year-old Intel CPU/space heater.

Also - to get enough economy-of-scale to make it affordable and avoid paying $$$ for an engineer to fit it - this "cartridge" would need to be installable by the average user who could pick up a screwdriver by the right end best of 3 tries. Something like adding RAM to an Intel iMac is probably the upper end of allowable complexity. For starters, that probably means having at least part of the heatsink on the cartridge. With Apple Silicon, that obviously includes RAM and, probably, SSD (does the SSD interface stay the same between SoC generations?)

For a laptop - any such arrangement is going to add bulk and weight. Might not worry us old farts who remember the PowerBook G3 "Wallstreet" as the epitome of portability, but I don't see Apple doing anything that might make the MBP 1mm thicker. Also a reason why any such system is unlikely to last more than 1 generation.

For a desktop - the more I think about it, the more this card/cartridge sounds like a Mac Mini without the case and PSU, at which stage you might as well get one of the various kits that let you mount a Mini on the back of the display. Maybe Apple will have some such scheme associated with the rumoured ATV-sized M4 Mini (esp. if they make it USB-C powered so it could dock to a Studio Display with a single cable).

In terms of "waste" - replace the Mini/Studio computer in your "separates" system with a new model and you still have the old, probably still usable, Mini to re-purpose, re-home, sell or keep as an emergency fallback. Replace a CPU board or cartridge and the old board/cartridge becomes a piece of nonfunctional landfill. Coupled with my point above - i.e. we're talkinga about upgrading 18 month timescales, not 5-year old vintage systems - reselling/re-purposing is the better way to avoid waste.

What is particularly frustrating about my old 2017 iMac is that, if I could have "split it up" or connected multiple computers, I could have used the display as the main display for my Studio and found uses for the computer part when I occasionally need to run Windows, x86 Linux or old Mac software - and as a still-just-about-viable fallback if my main system failed. Having it in all-in-one form that needs half a desk to itself is hugely inconvenient. Getting a monitor conversion kit is a possibility (but then the x86 guts and a 1TB SSD go in the trash...)

Pre-iMac I've always found uses for my "last" computer that didn't involve throwing away most of the guts.
 
literally no one cares for a modular mac. the mac pro is a huge flop and the all in one imac stays loved and in demand.
Evidence?
The only model-by-model breakdown I've seen in circulation contradicts that and suggests that iMac and Mac Pro sales are neck-and-neck. Now - that sounds like hokum to me and I really don't trust that data, but that means "we don't know" not "the opposite must be true". At best - if the data isn't total junk - the likely margin of error on those small sales figures (...if you round to the nearest integer, and that integer is '1'...) suggests that desktop sales are pretty evenly spread between the models.

What is believable (because it matches what Apple has said in the past) is that the vast majority of Mac sales are laptops and all desktop sales are order-of-magnitude 10%. Apple are unlikely to fragment that slice of the market any further by introducing a second iMac model (...if people can agree on what size/type of screen they want) especially when the alternative is to produce a Studio Display that can also be marketed towards the hordes of MacBook Pro users as a docking solution.

The Mac Pro is really pretty irrelevant - "modular" in the sense of PCIe and huge RAM expansion just isn't something that the current run of Apple Silicon is good for, and the current ASi Mac Pro is a super-niche product for customers who need specialist PCIe AV interfaces or crazy amounts of PCIe-based SSD - who's alternative would be a Mac Studio plus a $$$$ external Thunderbolt PCIe housing from Sonnet et. al. I suspect it will be the last of its line as Mac Pro users either move to Thunderbolt setups or shift to cheap Xeon/Threadripper boxes which are frankly more suited to "big box 'o' slots" systems. If Apple develops a super-chip I think it will be a very different beast aimed at AI development and server applications.
 
What is believable (because it matches what Apple has said in the past) is that the vast majority of Mac sales are laptops and all desktop sales are order-of-magnitude 10%. Apple are unlikely to fragment that slice of the market any further by introducing a second iMac model (...if people can agree on what size/type of screen they want) especially when the alternative is to produce a Studio Display that can also be marketed towards the hordes of MacBook Pro users as a docking solution.
Concur. In addition all Mac are just a minority segment of Apple’s business. Apple has become a mobile phone and service company. Desktop computing is a small portion of a small portion.
 
[…] the alternative is to produce a Studio Display that can also be marketed towards the hordes of MacBook Pro users as a docking solution. […]
I wish I knew more about display technology (past, present, and future), so I could have an opinion about what they should do, but it seems like a missed opportunity. The physical experience of large screens are the one thing that smaller, more mobile devices can’t really replace. Immersive screens like Vision Pro are a long way from doing that in any practical sense.

I’ve convinced myself we will see a Pro Display update first. The 2019 model, where the jump from 5K iMac/Studio to 6K Pro isn’t compelling for anyone but professionals who need the XDR features, is ready for a bump. [On the other hand, I’ll bet the current Pro Display XDR has locked down that market, if Dell’s belated 6K entry is any indication.] “It’s only $3000/$4000 more” isn’t something many people can say without thinking about it.

So come out with two sizes of the Studio Display already. This the one area I think Apple can and should lead the industry. They did it with Retina 5K, tried to partner with LG, but nobody followed them until years later, and arguably still not really. 4K is still dominant, and still not Retina. But I don’t think they were wrong. 5K is what 4K should have been.

It’s time to move on from 5K. Let’s go!
 
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I wish I knew more about display technology (past, present, and future), so I could have an opinion about what they should do, but it seems like a missed opportunity. The physical experience of large screens are the one thing that smaller, more mobile devices can’t really replace. Immersive screens like Vision Pro are a long way from doing that in any practical sense.

Not offering an OEM Apple display was indeed a missed opportunity. Even if they do not sell well, the market that is there is really dedicated to such a thing. I expect this is one of the reasons when Apple re-entered the display market, they did so at the price points they did - they knew they would not sell many, but they would make enough from the ones they did sell to justify creating the product.


I’ve convinced myself we will see a Pro Display update first...So come out with two sizes of the Studio Display already. This the one area I think Apple can and should lead the industry.

Apple and LG were working on a 32" and 27" MiniLED ProMotion display and both would have, IMO, allowed Apple to offer a family of Pro XDR displays. My guess is the MSRP of them was so high that Apple came to the conclusion they would not sell enough to make it worth the effort.
 
Apple, please make a $1000 smart display that works as awesome stand alone TV and also has multiple inputs for Mac and PCs. And a new $1000 Mac Liberty that is powered from the display and has laptop battery. And a $500 MacBook Air that can do browsing etc on its own and can also connect wirelessly to be another display for the Mac Liberty. You’re welcome.
 
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a modular approach to Macbooks the same way I suggested it for iMacs. Replacing the SoC via cartridge or slot, akin to a M2 drive would be glorious.
How bout if the MacBook could wirelessly connect to the latest SoC (which also had a battery and ports for displays and peripherals). Putting the chip in the laptop has major disadvantages (heat and wires).
 
Sorry to repeat myself but AIO is dead. Our smart bedroom tv (2015) is useless because Android 2014 is no longer supported by all streaming apps.

The best way forward for apple, imho, is either to make a range (27-27-32) screen themselves or outsource it and equip it with a power and TB 4 / USB and a mounting option in which you can slide a Mac Mini to your likings and updates.

New screen, slide in your old Mac mini.

New Mac mini just replace it. No extra cable cluster.

Old school? Just use the Mac mini to your liking.

Modular (like old school) but without the cable clusters and best of both worlds (more choices).
 
There are folks on Etsy who make 3D-printed MacBook mounts that fit to the back of the Apple Studio Display if you just cannot handle seeing more than the power cable draped below the display. I expect we will see them for the new mini Mac mini that will supposedly be announced next month, as well.
 
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Gone are the days where Apple basically gives away a Mac inside of a case that is holding a 5K display. From 2014-2019 those 27" machines were some of the best deals on the planet, because Apple did not mark them up according to both the value of the display itself and the Mac inside it. You basically paid for the display, and got the Mac for free, unless you upgraded it. You're not going to see a deal like that again. Not from this Apple.
They were only a deal if you snagged a rare-as-hens'-teeth 2yo 500gb SSD model at a going-out-of-business auction; as most had regular rotational-drives inside a glued-together case (and these were...OK running HFS+ operating-systems). Otherwise they were fairly outrageously-priced (i.e., relative to third-party 35" external HDMI screens the Mini-buyers were opting for), with resale values remaining high until the forced-obsolescence of Catalina in 2019.

This is "this" Apple's main problem with their iMac line. They shot themselves in the foot.

Today, if you want a real screen deal, you buy a used smartTV off FBM for under $100 and use it as a dumb monitor.
...Our smart bedroom tv (2015) is useless because Android 2014 is no longer supported by all streaming apps....
Speak of the devil....
 
What is the point of a large iMac? Why not just buy a Mac mini and a third-party 32-inch IPS monitor? That combination will likely be less expensive than a large iMac. Also, a large iMac will likely be smaller than 32 inches.

Beauty x functionality.

Apple can't just say it is about design and creative and then make you buy ugly third-party devices just because you're locked into iOS.
 
I like how some people take a statement to the effect of "We're not going to make another 27" iMac and focusing on the 24" iMac" as 100% confirmation that another, much bigger size being in the works.

I only had iMacs because some components or features were limited to them and a Mac Pro was too expensive for my purposes.

Older iMacs had the option of being used as a display for other Macs.
Between 2014 and 2016, iMacs were the only way of getting a 5K Retina display.
Until the last 27" one, some CPUs and GPUs were only available in iMacs.

That's all gone now.

iMacs (particularly 27") were always stupidly unwieldy to transport, have serviced, and sell. The display always outlasted the usefulness of the rest.

The all-in-one reasoning of saving cables was always BS to me because I typically use 3-display setups. Right now, I'm using a Mac Studio with two studio displays and one LG Ultrafine 5K. One of the studio displays is in portrait, which a 27" iMac couldn't even do (unless you opted for VESA mounting at purchase maybe).

The original iMac is a beautiful consumer desktop product.

Many used to buy Macs for the design and pay a premium for that. The apple silicon has way overshot what most consumers or even prosumers need in processing performance, but every consumer can appreciate an attractive design and a 4K or 5K 27inch screen. Your needs seem very different than what this line was historically designed for.
 
The original iMac is a beautiful consumer desktop product.

Many used to buy Macs for the design and pay a premium for that. The apple silicon has way overshot what most consumers or even prosumers need in processing performance, but every consumer can appreciate an attractive design and a 4K or 5K 27inch screen. Your needs seem very different than what this line was historically designed for.
It's not 1998 anymore.

Not sure where you get your authoritative information on Apple Silicon "overshooting" people's needs and wants, but the CPU is beside the point here. The issue is that these "attractive" machines (I think iMacs look okay, but not what I would call beautiful) are wasteful from a simple economic standpoint, not even to think of e-waste considerations. The CPU power has nothing to do with the fact that you can't keep the display once the whole thing gets too old to be useful.

If you think that a Mac mini or Mac Studio is somehow not attractive (I happen to think they look cool), then it's easy to hide it behind the display or under the table.

Having an all-in-one computer makes more sense to me in laptops, tablets and phones.
 
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Taste preferences aside, that an iMac is somehow substantially more wasteful than a studio display with an M-series chip in it plus a separate computer, just sounds like marketing nonsense. If apple really cared about this they could have allowed me to upgrade my vintage iMac internals, or continue to support it.

Here's some more reality vs marketing - my vintage 27" iMac vastly outperforms my 24" M3 iMac not because of processing power (the M3 obviously kills the intel) but because the 27" is a far better experience than the 24" inch. Like I said, apple has become more like wintel, pitching processing power rather than elegant design.
 
It's not 1998 anymore.

Not sure where you get your authoritative information on Apple Silicon "overshooting" people's needs and wants...

Oh on this, first I just said needs. Want is a far more complex issue.

And I think it's pretty much well known that disruption in the consumer market began to happen in Intel processors at least 10 years ago. You can look up Andy Grove and Clay Christensen and their concerns about this problem, them being about as authoritative as it comes.
 
The original iMac is a beautiful consumer desktop product.

Many used to buy Macs for the design and pay a premium for that.
Yes sir re bob 😃 design meant a lot. My first Mac was the Performa, then the Cube that is in a box in the closet and now a 27" iMac. If Apple was really serious about recycling there would be no talk about landfills but that's another topic.
 
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Oh on this, first I just said needs. Want is a far more complex issue.

And I think it's pretty much well known that disruption in the consumer market began to happen in Intel processors at least 10 years ago. You can look up Andy Grove and Clay Christensen and their concerns about this problem, them being about as authoritative as it comes.
You continue to be beside the point and now you're using tactics to dilute the discussion with vague references to authorities. Telling people to read these 18 books and then come back is a well-known deflection strategy.

If you have any points to make, make them here.

The topic at hand is not whether Andy Grove thought this or that or how beautiful the cube was, the topic is whether a hypothetical 32" iMac makes sense in the current time. I've laid out why it isn't.
 
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