Will Apple come out with a desktop called the "Mac"?

[maccompaq]

Yes, but the life span is in hundreds of years. Its the stuff that moves that is the problem. Hard drives, dvd drives fans etc. And dust doesn't help.

Hundreds of years? Just where did you get your data?

 

[trainguy77]

I never leave my computers (Macs & Windows) on overnight. Electronic components are like light bulbs, they only have a certain time life, so I preserve mine by shutting down.

I don't know where you have heard this.....besides when its in sleep mode it is not running power through the whole thing only the ram and a couple other components.

There is also the problem of memory fragmentation (now called memory leakage). The only way to recover the memory fragmentation is to restart the computer. Even though I am a Mac fanatic, I find that Windows recovers from memory fragmentation much better than a Mac without the need to restart.

Are you talking about how it appears to fill the memory the longer it is on? this is good memory management what else is the ram going to be used for?

 

[Flynnstone]

Simple answer is : look into electromigration.
The wear-out mechanism is a function of temperature, feature size and other parameters. As we get into these smaller feature size CPUs like 32nm and below this will be more of a problem. In general CPUs are obsolete before they wear out.
Another computer failure mechanism is thermal cycling. Hot - cold cycling.
Apple had a problem with this many years ago on the Macintoshs, where the DRAM chips would pop off the board.

 

[trainguy77]

Simple answer is : look into electromigration.
The wear-out mechanism is a function of temperature, feature size and other parameters. As we get into these smaller feature size CPUs like 32nm and below this will be more of a problem. In general CPUs are obsolete before they wear out.
Another computer failure mechanism is thermal cycling. Hot - cold cycling.
Apple had a problem with this many years ago on the Macintoshs, where the DRAM chips would pop off the board.

So really its a moot point. The servers i run rarely actually have motherboard failures etc its always hard drives, fans, and power supplies and they are on all the time. The machines are always obsolete before we have failure problems.

 

[Flynnstone]

So really its a moot point. The servers i run rarely actually have motherboard failures etc its always hard drives, fans, and power supplies and they are on all the time. The machines are always obsolete before we have failure problems.

Bingo !

My last motherboard failure was a form of electromigration. The heatsink that cools the "Northbridge" chip was held in by 4 soldered loops of wire. The wires on one side "electromigrated" (actually pulled through) the solder. The heatsink popped up and the little pieces of wire bounced around inside the computer. They finally landed in a spot that prevented any longevity of the motherboard. Poof !

 

[maccompaq]

I don't know where you have heard this.....besides when its in sleep mode it is not running power through the whole thing only the ram and a couple other components.


Are you talking about how it appears to fill the memory the longer it is on? this is good memory management what else is the ram going to be used for?

You said it yourself, power runs through RAM and other components, also the power supply. This has been a topic of dispute primarily since computers first had hard drives installed back in the late 80's, but it was even discussed in the early days of floppy drive only computers.

I have the Activity Monitor open in the Dock to monitor memory usage. Usually I have a word processor open when I am running Photoshop. As I open more images, I can see the memory usage increase to the point where there is no more memory available. Closing some or all of the images releases some memory to be used, but after a while, the memory is totally fragmented, meaning that there is very little memory available. At that point, I have to close Photoshop and the word processor to get some memory back, but it only gives a small fraction of the memory that was available when I first turned the computer on. The only way to get that memory back is to reboot the Mac. I have experienced this over many years using Photoshop from version 1.0 through the current version.

 

[trainguy77]

I have the Activity Monitor open in the Dock to monitor memory usage. Usually I have a word processor open when I am running Photoshop. As I open more images, I can see the memory usage increase to the point where there is no more memory available. Closing some or all of the images releases some memory to be used, but after a while, the memory is totally fragmented, meaning that there is very little memory available. At that point, I have to close Photoshop and the word processor to get some memory back, but it only gives a small fraction of the memory that was available when I first turned the computer on. The only way to get that memory back is to reboot the Mac. I have experienced this over many years using Photoshop from version 1.0 through the current version.

Are you including inactive RAM as free RAM? As it is just RAM not being used that OS X has deleted its contents just in case the off chance it might be needed again. But if another app asks for RAM it will allocate that inactive RAM to it. OS X is much better at memory management then windows. I don't get any slow down from leaving my computer on for weeks at a time.

 

[CalBoy]

Am I really the only person who turns off my computer. I turn mine off almost every night, and when I don't it's because I'm leting something download over night instead of patiently waiting for it to download in the day. That's maybe once a month or less. Otherwise it goes off everynight I didn't realise that I was unusual in this.

I used to turn off computers overnight, but then realized that I was probably wasting as much energy restarting it every morning. What's the point in that? When sleeping, the computer doesn't use much power at all. Considering the time savings it offers, I just leave my computer in sleep mode when I'm not using it (whether or not I've gone to bed).

I never leave my computers (Macs & Windows) on overnight. Electronic components are like light bulbs, they only have a certain time life, so I preserve mine by shutting down.

Yes, but will it make any real difference? Most computers (notebooks especially) have a life span of about 3-4 years. I hardly think that shutting down will save you enough wear and tear to make any real difference. You might gain all of a few hours of additional usage after a decade? Unless you plan on keeping every single component of your computer exactly the same for that long, and plan on sacrificing the time to wait for start up every morning, I don't see how it's worth it.

In addition, the argument you make is highly suspect. Power doesn't run through the CPU while the machine is sleeping.

There is also the problem of memory fragmentation (now called memory leakage). The only way to recover the memory fragmentation is to restart the computer. Even though I am a Mac fanatic, I find that Windows recovers from memory fragmentation much better than a Mac without the need to restart.

I use some pretty RAM-intensive apps, and sleeping hasn't made any difference in this regard. If my system wants more memory, it gets it from the "inactive" portion. Unless you're arguing that sleeping gradually reduces the maximum memory available to the system, I don't see this argument holding water.

The start up time? Say what? Start up time of 45 seconds is too much time to wait?

Depends. In the morning, I want to check email and weather in a hurry. I'm not waiting 45 seconds for that. In that time, I can miss the train. Time is all very relative.

Hundreds of years? Just where did you get your data?

Can I ask where you get yours from?

I don't know where you have heard this.....besides when its in sleep mode it is not running power through the whole thing only the ram and a couple other components.

Yes, thank you.

Are you including inactive RAM as free RAM? As it is just RAM not being used that OS X has deleted its contents just in case the off chance it might be needed again. But if another app asks for RAM it will allocate that inactive RAM to it. OS X is much better at memory management then windows. I don't get any slow down from leaving my computer on for weeks at a time.

^^As reference to my earlier remark about memory usage.

 

[GAS]

I used to turn off computers overnight, but then realized that I was probably wasting as much energy restarting it every morning. What's the point in that?

Do you actually have any facts proving that it takes more energy to start the computer up than leaving it on all night?

 

[CalBoy]

Do you actually have any facts proving that it takes more energy to start the computer up than leaving it on all night?

Well now, I didn't quite say that it takes more energy now did I?

However, I don't have concrete energy consumption data, so no. Based on my experiences with power drain while my mbp is asleep and not connected to a charger, however, I've noticed that power drain is less than 0.3%/hour (3 hours of sleep hadn't drained a full percent of battery life). Based on that, I surmise that power consumption would be quite low for the ~8 hours most of sleep.

 

[crazydrumma]

I agree, I just let my computer sleep overnight. It DOES save time in the morning and you have to check some info quick. I have no train to catch, but I do have classes to run to. Although, many times I simply take my computer to class as well... so that may have been a bad example. Regardless, I am not a fan of shutting it down and restarting it.

 

[customisbetter]

i don't think that people need the upgrade ability as much as the annoyance of a mandatory screen.
an imac sounds perfect performance-wise but I either watch tv or go on the computer. so i might as well use my fricken 47 in screen rather than a 20/24 in.

thats my 2 cents.
im done...

ps. i only have laptops so i only sleep if im not using it for up to 5 hours. after that its better on battery life to restart.