MP 7,1 Will Apple offer a "cheap" option for new Mac Pro?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by layzarc, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. layzarc macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2013
    #1
    I know the words "cheap" and "Apple" don't go together, but I wonder if Apple will offer lower cost new Mac Pro configurations without any MPX modules, but instead just a relatively inexpensive video card in one of the PCIe slots?

    Al
     
  2. kohlson macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    #2
    I'm pretty sure that cheap starts at $6K. It's all relative...
     
  3. layzarc thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Nov 19, 2013
    #3
    Nevermind. I see their "cheap" option is a half-height MPX module with a single Radeon GPU.
     
  4. ruka.snow macrumors regular

    ruka.snow

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2017
    #4
    It's not the MPX that makes it expensive, it's the CPU, PSU, and logic board. They would need to offer a board with less PCI-e 16x slots and a much weaker PSU in order to make any sort of dent in the price. It would be somewhat like how the single socket Powermacs where much cheeper than the dual socket boards but also had half the dimm slots for RAM. Then we have the grotesquely overpriced Xeon chips that have been slowly but surely climbing up the price ladder over the last decade, that would need to be replaced with a i9 but then you would be left with significantly less PCI-e slots(which we would need to drop for the PSU to go down in price anyway). And there would be a cap of maybe 2 TB ports which would have the knock on effect of lowering the cost a bit more by reducing the licensing fees.
     
  5. ruslan120 macrumors 6502

    ruslan120

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    #5
    I think there will be deals, similar to the iMac pro deals with a grand off the base model.

    Below that is iMac Pro, and below that is Mac mini. But I’m assuming you were asking for the sake of expansion and PCI express. For that, there is thunderbolt and you can use external graphics card enclosures for PCI express. Both the Mac mini and iMac Pro have for thunderbolt three ports.
     
  6. boyorion macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    #6
    I really don't think there's any chance of this. The machine is made solely for professionals to lease. Apple has abandoned the upgradeable prosumer computer. Your options now are the 4k imac which is very reasonably priced or the Mac Mini which I would consider but I want more hard drive bays and isn't really an option in terms of graphics. I'm sure a TB box would serve my purposes fine but the expense of both the box and the card makes it prohibitive when the Mac Mini is already overpriced.
     
  7. mauriziodececco macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    #7
    Well, two points:
    1) MPX modules *will* be expensive, because they are not mass produced; they works only on the new Mac Pro, and there will never be millions of them.
    2) The Mac Pro have 8 pins connectors for powering standard GPU cards.

    Then, it seems natural at some point that there will be configurations on sales without the MPX card, and that configuration should be cheaper; but it would not expect such configuration to be available at launch, and anyway i would be surprised if the price reduction would be less than 500$.

    Other point, after having recently installed an Rx580 on my 2009 Mac Pro, that emulate a Airbus 320 at take-off when i start Davinci Resolve, i would seriously consider a fan less graphic card :->, even it is 500$ more expensive.

    Maurizio
     
  8. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Location:
    North Country (way upstate NY)
    #8
    The Mac will just spin up the front fans instead of the fans on the card the heat has to be dissipated.

    The amount of noise your GPU cooler makes is related to the fans the company specs on them and the efficiency of the heat sink. The fans on mine can’t be heard at full speed above all the other noise the computer makes
     
  9. ruslan120 macrumors 6502

    ruslan120

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    Jul 12, 2009
    #9
    Yes, but I think the front fans are larger which should make for quiet(er) operation.
     
  10. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    Sep 24, 2014
    Location:
    North Country (way upstate NY)
    #10
    "can" make for quieter operation

    The problem is they're the cooling for everything else also..The tone of the noise also makes a difference to how noise is perceived. Only time will tell if it's actually quiet and how hot they let the computer run.
     
  11. LorenK macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Illinois
    #11
    You can hope and pray, but given the choices that Apple made with the design, it is unlikely that it would be downgraded to make it less expensive. It is disappointing in that it seems that upgrading is easier in a good design, and that when Apple originally said modular, I thought that they would make it more flexible, i.e. similar to the classic MP in that that could be upgraded in a variety of ways that satisfied a lot of needs through a desktop. So from a design standpoint, I might consider it a bait and switch, except that they were also clear that they were trying to do something specifically for their professional users, the ones who hadn't already gotten frustrated with their slow update process and switched off. Clearly the base MP 7,1 was designed with a more specific set of users in mind as a base product that would "wow" that set of users, without regard to the other MP users who had been able to use it in ways not anticipated by Apple, but essentially not the primary focus of either the initial design plan and definitely not the focus of the redesign plan.

    I think that Apple considers both the Mac Mini and iMac as functional substitutes for this group of users. TB3 is intended to serve as a reasonable replacement for the pcie devices that these users were able to put into their classic MP, and with the speed improvements shouldn't see any loss of functionality. Granted, these will now crowd the desktop, but when you think of the space that a classic MP takes up, the space is likely the same, but just spread out and actually on the desktop. I expect that I will be able to survive with a new MacMini, though I am not enamored of the integrated graphics solution, but improvements are being made, so it seems more of an affectation to think that I can't be accommodated through this solution.

    I do feel sorry for those who use the classic MP in ways that Apple intended but are not in the capital expense area to which the new MP is directed, since the expense is considerably more relative to what it was before, even with the trash can. Good luck to them in finding an acceptable solution at the price point at which they have to operate.
     
  12. Moonjumper macrumors 68000

    Moonjumper

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    Jun 20, 2009
    Location:
    Lincoln, UK
    #12
    There is another reason for wanting a Mac Pro style computer, getting running again quickly. A previous iMac of mine had the hard drive fail. It spent 2 weeks at the Apple Store. I could have slotted a new drive in and been up and running in hours with a Mac Pro format. That is an important difference when using it for work.

    I'd be happy with the set up ruka.snow described above, and as he said, Apple used to do similar with the single and dual slot Powermacs.
     
  13. venom600 macrumors 6502a

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    Mar 23, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    #13
    Ideally they would release a model with consumer level components like Core i7 and i9 processors and Radeon 5000 series graphics. You'd get 95% of the performance (or more.... consumer components are just as fast these days) and 50% the cost. So instead of a $6000 8 core machine, you'd get a $3000 8 core machine that would likely be just as fast.
     
  14. danwells macrumors 6502

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    Apr 4, 2015
    #14
    The reason for the $6000 8 core is so it can be a 28-core...
     
  15. mikehalloran macrumors 68000

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    Oct 14, 2018
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    The Sillie Con Valley
    #15
    The upgrades use off-the-shelf components, same as the iMac Pro. The prices are known and, if you are paying attention, you’ll see that Apple has been charging market prices or less for BTO upgrades.

    Knowing those prices, I expect that a 16 core Mac Pro should run about the same or less than the 14 core iMac Pro befor Apple dropped the BTO prices last month on it and the Mini. I’m pretty certain that’s why Apple dropped those prices. With BTO prices that low for the MP, it would be embarrassing for it to be le$$ than a similar iMP.
     
  16. ssgbryan macrumors 6502a

    ssgbryan

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    #16
    Or you can just go with an Eypc 2 system. If Tim had the brain of a goose, Apple would go with an AMD reference board in their Mac Pro and be done with it.

    Intel is having it's Bulldozer moment. They have nothing inbound for the next couple of years.
     
  17. aaronhead14 macrumors 6502a

    aaronhead14

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    #17
    I agree that it would be cool to release a "Mac" (maybe not named "Mac Pro") that has a similar, user-upgradeable chassis to the Mac Pro but has consumer-level hardware rather than Workstation-class hardware. It would be a great way to get tons of power to prosumer and even budget professionals. I know for a fact that people in my field would be more interested in that than the current iMac Pro. If Apple could make it and sell it with similar pricing to the iMac Pro, that would be awesome.

    However, I doubt Apple would do it. They like having control over what their customers can and can't do, which is why they made the iMac Pro virtually impossible to upgrade. I just wish they trusted their professional customers than they currently do. We enjoy user-upgradeability.

    Also, the Mac Pro is amazing, even though it's a bit pricier than we all were hoping. It's definitely going to sell well to its intended markets, and that's great. Hoping to pick one up, eventually....
     
  18. ssgbryan macrumors 6502a

    ssgbryan

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    Jul 18, 2002
    #18
    It will only sell to large video production studios, due to Intel's AVX 512 instruction set.

    But, if your workflow doesn't require that instruction set, there is no reason to buy a Mac Pro.

    Ryzen 3rd Generation, Threadripper, Eypc 2 today.

    And with Zen 3 coming with 4 threads per core, tomorrow isn't looking good for Intel either.
     
  19. venom600 macrumors 6502a

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    Mar 23, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    #19
    I love what AMD is doing as much as anyone else. I have a soft spot from way back in the Pentium Days when their K series processors destroyed Intel in performance. The stuff they are making is first class, but the common complaint I hear is that they don't scale well. They have trouble delivering large quantities of their products to large customers like Apple. It'd be like going back to Motorola again.
     
  20. ssgbryan macrumors 6502a

    ssgbryan

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    Jul 18, 2002
    #20
    That would be news to their customers. HP is already shipping Eypc 2 servers, Dell by the end of the month, Amazon, and Google are already onboard.
     
  21. choreo macrumors regular

    choreo

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    Jan 10, 2008
    Location:
    Midland, TX
    #21
    And for me "impossible to buy"!

    I used to buy a new Mac Pro every 2-3 years, but I am still stuck with my 2012 5,1 as that last modular Mac. So in my case, they have missed out on 2-3 Mac Pro sales so far because of their philosophy. They just don't make a modular self-contained Mac primarily for Adobe Creative Cloud customers that also use FCP.
     
  22. venom600 macrumors 6502a

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    Mar 23, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    #22
    Evidently, they don't care. The more I think about it, they don't just produce stuff to produce it. They did an analysis on it and determined that they would make more money with the iMac Pro and Mac Pro designed as they are than a Mac Pro that would serve a larger audience. Evidently those of us who want prosumer level machine AND who won't also cave and buy a Mini or an iMac Pro are a very small, but vocal, minority. Most of us will either pay up or grumble and moan as we pay for our new heat throttled iMac/Mini with external everything.
     
  23. aaronhead14 macrumors 6502a

    aaronhead14

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    #23
    It's like you're taking the words straight from my mouth. Apple's desire to make Macs less user-upgradeable has definitely caused them to lose my purchases. I'm really glad with the Mac Pro, and hope they move forward with this train of thought, and are eventually able to make less expensive modular Macs as well. It's what we want!
     
  24. Macintosh IIcx macrumors 6502

    Macintosh IIcx

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    Jul 3, 2014
    Location:
    Denmark
    #24
    Nah, regarding Epyc: the single thread turbo clocks are too low for an all round workstation. The Epyc Rome is absolutely brilliant if you only need multithreaded workloads like 3D rendering etc, but single threaded turbo boost clocks at 3.4 GHz is an issue. Loads of tasks in normal Workstation apps is still single threaded for various reasons.

    We will see with threadripper, hopefully those SKU will rectify that to some extent.

    Anyway, if you want MacOS, AMD CPU is a pipe dream at the moment for a workstation.

    If you are just as happy using Windows/Linux, go ahead and treat yourself! :cool:
     
  25. shaunp macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    #25
    No, absolutely none. This is an 'FU' computer from Apple because customers said the trashcan wasn't 'Pro' enough. The problem is Apple confused the words expandable and expensive. All most small businesses and enthusiasts wanted was an expandable Mac that started at a reasonable price, but instead Apple gave the community the finger and decided to make something for the 1%. If it doesn't work it doesn't matter because they did produce a 'Pro' computer, we just didn't buy it.

    Apple has been blatantly ignoring a segment of their customers - the buyers of the low-end Mac Pro - for years now and the result is the Hackintosh community, which Apple will stomp out with the next few rounds of OS update and the T2 chip. Can't have a T2 chip in a hackintosh and Mac OS won't run without one, subsequently making a load of older Macs obsolete in the process. Doesn't matter if they are only 4-5 years old, buy a new one!

    So if you are a customer who wants a mid-range expandable computer where you can choose your own GPU and storage, and later upgrade bits as you need to as this is the most economic route for you, tough. Apple doesn't want you. They want you to buy an iMac, buy a very expensive low-spec Mac Pro or 'f off'. Those are our choices. I choose PC and Windows. Apple, F U. Just F U.
     

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44 August 6, 2019